Samurai Update

[nanatsu]

Re: Samurai Update

Oh wow. I've always loved the war job. The one reason why I decided not to level it was because I wanted to go old school war/mnk with great axe, but everyone and their mom seemed to have a problem with that and want war/nin only. If this change does what it's intended to do for 2 handed weapons, maybe...just maybe...I'll level war :O

[Dryhus]

Re: Samurai Update

I'm eager to see what kind of Accuracy, Haste, and Strength boosts are granted. I'm guessing it will come in increments. Low at first, but nice fat boosts endgame. 25, 40, 55, and 70 maybe. They won't break /SAM (at least I don't think so).

[Stooky]

Re: Samurai Update

yep, war/mnk was so ftw... but now war/sam sounds like it will be ftw. Yep, I dont have sam leveled and im happy. I cant wait till the release stuff about other job updates!

[dirtyclown]

Re: Samurai Update

Oh my God...YAY, NOW I DON'T HAVE TO SUB NINJA POST 40 FOR MY WARRIOR!

[Vyuru]

Re: Samurai Update

Yeah, I wanted to go as a Gaxe using war/mnk, but this looks too awesome...

Do I go as drg/sam, or drg/war now in exp parties? Do I get a Brutal Earring to further boost my double attack or to give me double attack? Do I want that cloak to boost my Zanshin or give me Zanshin? What food do I eat? Gah! Too many choices! I can't decide!!!

On the flip side I'm glad I bought up my samurai gear the other week, I bet it's gonna be pricey.

Oh, and changes that they are thinking of for dragoons (since someone asked)

Adjustments Planned:
1. Super Jump recast will be reduced to 3 minutes.
2. Empathy ability will provide both dragoon and wyvern with stoneskin effect.
3. Spirit Surge will have an added effect with the ability to reset the recast time of all jump abilities.

I'm guessing that Hasso will act alot like Boost, with a bigger bonus as you get higher level. Drg/war was a monster, drg/sam is looking like a beast, this is gonna be fun :D

[AricLokar]

Re: Samurai Update

(OK I post this on Alla too, but here we go)
Ok lets break this down....
Hasso

• [li]bonus to attack speed (haste) *Yeahhh! This bee good. Not specified how much but should make a difference*[/li]
  [li]bonus to accuracy *Um we are already ACC whores every breakdown of equipment guide I see it has us using ACC equipment, I would like to see this open "Endgame" equipment to a few more possibilities.*[/li]
  [li]Strength *Yeah for more damage, uh what else is there to say*[/li]

Seigan

• [li]Recast time for third eye halved and duration "adjusted" *Basically we get to use Third Eye more often and could possibly last longer.*[/li]
  [li]Possibility to counterattack or keep third eye on evading an attack *So you don't need the Saotome Haidate now to counter attack, I would imagine it will enchance the counter attack possibility more?*[/li]

Zanshin

• [li]Accquired at level 20 *Opens this skill when using Sam as a subjob*[/li]
  [li]May attack immediatly after missing an attack *With current equipment that Sam uses I can't imaging that this is a great big deal since most will have such high ACC that they hardly miss attacks. Will probably help the most at earlier levels where the ACC gear available is lower, and woohoo other jobs get to access it with sub now.*[/li]

So here are my thoughts.
There should be many more drk, and drg using SAM as a subjob, and maybe just maybe there will be some warriors using GA at end game with SAM as subjob instead of Nin. How much of a damage increase will depend on if the Warriors will switch, it needs to be just as much damage as dual wield axes, preferiably I would like to see it do more damage overall with the str bonus and acc bonus.
The third eye change.. I am not sure if they are trying to get people to stop using Nin as a tank, or /nin as a tank. Third eye can be used more often, may not go away on the first or second evade possibly longer could possibly counter attack. Would SAM/WAR be an effective tank now? If SAM were to focus on DEF and VIT gear if they went with the defensive skill. Would give you defender, third eye, Def Bonus I and a SAM shouldn't have problems with holding agro on a mob even with reduced attack still have meditate, double attack, attack bonus. Should be able to spam the weapon skills keep the mob on them and hopefully have third eye negate most of the damage just like Utsusemi: Ni. No required tools could make this nice as it would cut down on gil cost for the tank, add the right food... Possibility? How low of a possibility of third eye not going away on an evade, 50% less? more? Does it start at 90% and end at 5% at the end of the "adjusted" duration? Is this duration 2 minutes now, 2 and a half? AOE would still be deadly.. It can be used more often than Ni, would it be as effective.. would it negate 4 attacks often enough? Didn't see anything about it changing the way it handles multi-hit attacks.
Exciting changes. Hopefully this gives SAM a few more opitions now instead of the very restrictive "USE THIS GEAR OR ELSE" mentality that some of the people seem to have.
The Third Eye..
Notes say

While Seigan is in effect, the recast time for the Third Eye job ability will be decreased by half. In accordance, the duration for "Third Eye" will be adjusted.

So as long as you are using Seigan the recast time will be decreased by half, so 30 seconds instead of 1 minute. Also the duration is going to be adjusted. I have no idea if the duration will be longer or shorter but this part:

The casting intervals were made shorter than the durations so that players can use the abilities whenever they are needed.

Makes me think that with Seigan active Third eye could potentially last longer. I would imagine that it would reach a very low percentage of it not staying up after an evade/counter that it would go away before it reached it's full duration.
You do have to use a 2h weapon to get the third eye bonus from seigan

Grants a bonus to Third Eye when using two-handed weapons.

If you can cut the normal time of Thrid Eye recast down with merits then it should be half of whatever that recast is.
So see a couple of things, the new Third Eye stuff is only with Seigan active. You could potentially evade/counter a number of attacks before third eye goes away. Remember you will always evade atleast one attack or multihit attack (AOE do not count third eye will go away and you get hit). Considering the way Third Eye works. I don't think +eva gear would make third eye last any longer, you evade attacks till third eye goes away. Depending on percentages of if third eye gets to stay after evading/countering an attack could be an average of 3 to 6 or 1 to 2 or who knows it isn't implemented yet.
Normal duration on Third eye will be 30 seconds, normal recast will be 1 min. With Seigan active it will be 30 second recast (I imagine less if the merits for third eye will be taken into account when Seigan is active) and unknown duration (actual time third eye stays active will again depend on the % of how often it gets to stay after you evade/counter with it)

[Karinya]

Re: Samurai Update

I'm betting percentage, or based on your total level (i.e. a WAR75/SAM37 gains just as much as a SAM75/WAR37). They *want* it to be a big fat boost to WAR/SAM and DRG/SAM. Think about all the traits and abilities those combos are going to have synergizing with each other...

DRK/SAM might not be quite as good given Hasso's effect on recasts, but it's possible that you could drop it to cast, then put it back up again. Of course DRK/SAM still has the hate problems of DRK/anythingbutTHF (worse with Zanshin and Hasso).


Of course, it's a boost to SAM main as well. It's interesting that Hasso is a long-duration ability that seems designed to boost their DoT rather than a WS-oriented short boost. I wonder if we could see a move away from SAM/THF toward SAM/WAR in exp/merit? Hasso seems like it would work better with Berserk than with Sneak Attack (both the haste and acc bonuses basically don't stack with SA, while they positively synergize with Berserk), but again, DDs without /THF can have hate problems.


Not much discussion of Seigan - the recast nerf seems clearly intended to stop it from breaking SAM/NIN, which suggests that the Third Eye buff is rather large. The TE buff (with or without Seigan) will improve SAM/WAR as a first voker for SATA, but will it be large enough to make a Seigan using SAM/WAR a serious contender as a tank?

Seigan-backed Third Eye would have to reduce at least as much damage as a shield *plus* Counter for WAR/SAM tanking to compare to WAR/MNK, and SAM/WAR is another step behind that with poorer selection of defense and enmity gear (which improved riceballs do not totally address IIRC). And even WAR/MNK is hardly taken seriously as a tank at higher levels anymore.

On the other hand, it seems clear that the *intent* of Seigan is to enable either WAR/SAM or SAM/WAR (or both) to be viable exp party tanks, so even if it doesn't accomplish that now, it might be improved to do so later. A bonus to parry chance while Seigan is active would be both appropriate and useful, if it turns out to be too weak as it stands.

[AricLokar]

Re: Samurai Update

With Seigan will Third Eye be as useful as :Ni? That is the question. You can recast it every 30 seconds (assuming no merits if they are taken into account with Seigan) You will evade or counter ever attack or multi hit attack until third eye drops (again who knows... no information on what percentage here you start third eye with and how quickly it drops) If you can average a 4 to 6 hit evasion/absorption/counter then I should see no reason why a SAM/WAR couldn't tank.

No information given on casting time so I am going to assume that it is still instant. You can instantly cast Third Eye, every 30 seconds and if evade/absorb/counter 4 to 6 attacks then I would say it is on par with :Ni if not better (minus the issue of AOE). I know many SAMs say they have problems with grabbing agro when subbed with /WAR I don't see how holding aggro should be a problem then.

I really hope that it turns out well it would really be nice to be viable as a tank. Should also give GA warriors the possibility to tank also then. Maybe even Drg (agro maybe be an issue here) in a pinch, I am concerned how it would effect DRK and spells so they might have to stay primarialy offensive. I don't think would see to many PLD subbin SAM either unless they aren't planning on tanking maybe GS and Hasso for some specific situations.

Will probably have to see how things actually turn out before, as most of this is specualtion on how things will work.

[nanatsu]

Re: Samurai Update

It could be that the intent of Seigan is to give two handers some of the benefits that dual wielders enjoy with ninjutsu. That is, going very high on the offensive without taking a lot of collateral damage. If they really wanted Seigan to enable WAR/SAM or SAM/WAR to tank I think they would've done more with it. Of course, I think there's a good chance it could be meant as a tank option, depending on how effective it is, but I think it's more likely just meant to even out the playing field vs /nin users. I guess we'll see when the time comes.

[Mog]

Re: Samurai Update

How the tables have turned. Thief and samurai are now some of the most wanted jobs, and black mage is left in the dust.

What next? Is puppetmaster going to be overly uber and will every party have a pup in it?

/disgusted

[raidenn]

Re: Samurai Update

I thought Thf was always wanted in a party?
As for Blm, they're still wanted.

[tdh]

Re: Samurai Update

I'm excited about these changes, but only from a SAM point of view. As WAR and DRK, I don't see myself changing my subs. I'd much rather have NIN for Axes and THF for Great Axe as WAR, and then WAR and THF for DRK as well. But I guess I'll have to do the obligatory testing either way.

I static my SAM with a friend who's leveling THF. So I don't see myself doing any tanking as SAM any time soon. I also static my WAR with a PLD, (Who just so happens to be the same aforementioned THF.) so no tanking going on there either. I'd also be surprised if we suddenly had a group of WARs who suddenly decided to tank again. WAR's had this big push over the past two years or so to go from the reluctant party member, to one of the better melee DDs out there. I know I wouldn't want to suddenly go back to being a tank. If I hadn't found a friend who wanted to level PLD, my WAR would probably still be stuck at Lv.25, and I would never have leveled it past Lv.37.

I just don't see this particular update changing the sub job choices for some jobs. Perhaps other updates will, but for WAR and DRK, I don't see /SAM becoming any more popular than it already is. DRG is the only job I think that will migrate back to /SAM currently.

[Mog]

Re: Samurai Update

As for Blm, they're still wanted.

Well, you're half right. Pre-65, blms are great all around. However, due to the new tp-burn update, 65-75 blms are no longer needed for xp parties, due to the fact that people can just TP-burn for much faster xp.

[Lmnop]

Re: Samurai Update

whewwww where to start? Let's start with some Clarifications

-Third eye's duration is lowered to 30 seconds, but recast stays @1 min. while in the one "stance," recast is lowered to 30 seconds and in accordance, the duration is lowered. I'm pretty sure that "in accordance" means likewise, meaning the new duration will be 15 seconds. I hope I'm wrong, but don't expect it to increase.

-No Counter. I think there is a very large misunderstanding about this. As it stands, while utsusemi/third eye is up, you cannot counterattack (at least I think. I know you used to be able to but I'm quite sure it was nerfed). I think they may change it so you can counterattack. However, I think what it truely means is that when a Samurai who has the relic legs equipped uses Third Eye, the counterattack effect will not end Third Eye. Level 15 Samurai will not be Counterattacking.

let's look at what concept S-E is trying to fulfill. I'm not going to address tanking just yet.

-We've seen it in these threads FOREVER. The breakdown is basically this: many jobs sub nin for utsusemi to protect them. Jobs without reliance on 2-handed weapons (thief, axe-warrior, ninja obviously, and even RNG) can also get use out of dual wield to increase their DoT (or increase amount of stat buffing weapons equipped for RNG). They may lose damage output from not subbing WAR, but they make most of it up via Dual Wield properties. Jobs like Drk, Sam, and Drg only get damage-avoidance, and no damage boost to compensate.

With these abilities (I already forget their names >.>), jobs using 2-handers gain a damage compensation, and a means of negating damage to some extent. Everyone's always cited how WARs don't lose anything by subbing something other than WAR, now SAMs will have that same advantage. Let's look at some practical application:

Sam/xxx level 40. Sam uses Hasso (I just looked it up haha) once every 5 minutes. He could use it every minute, but why bother? That's just more hate spikes. if he needs to set up TA with a THF, then when pull comes in, he can be using the defensive stance until TA lands, then activate Hasso risk-free of getting hate.

Drk/sam level 75 merit party. As above. The big difference between a Drk/Sam and a Drk/nin is that the Drk/Sam gets to actually deal damage like he should be able to. He has to think a bit, though. Basically, right after WS you activate....(looking up name....) Seigan and pop third eye. You just caused 2 hate spikes from JAs, but you can tank Np with third eye 'til the mob's dead anyway. Pull hate once/minute and you're fine.

Actually, the Third Eye changes are good enough that you may not need Seigan. Just Third Eye and ride it out. Play it smart and this should prove to be a really nice addition to 2-handed melee.

[Althrun]

Re: Samurai Update

On tonight's menu we have:
• Egg and bacon
• Egg, sausage and bacon
• Egg and SAM
• Egg, bacon and SAM
• Egg, bacon, sausage and SAM
• SAM, bacon, sausage and SAM
• SAM, egg, SAM, SAM, bacon and SAM
• SAM, sausage, SAM, SAM, SAM, bacon, SAM, tomato and SAM
• SAM, SAM, SAM, egg, and SAM
• SAM, SAM, SAM, SAM, SAM, SAM, baked beans, SAM, SAM, SAM and SAM
• Lobster thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce served in the Provençale manner with shallots and aubergines, garnished with truffle paté, brandy and with a fried egg on top and SAM