SAM w/ RNG Sub

[dimsum86]

When a SAM reaches post 60+ levels, isn't it okay for SAMs to have a RNG subjob? Here are some reasons I need to get cleared up.

1 - I'm pretty sure Ranged attacks give you TP... so doesn't it help build your TP faster?

2 - After a weapon skill, and you use barrage, how many attacks is it? If it is more than 1 attack, then a SAM can self chain himself(with meditate of cozzz) right? and also provides Renkei + Magic Burst dmg potential by BLM. Of coz we can only do this like... once every 3 minutes, but TP growth would be better?
100%tp >>>Meditate >>> Tachi: Something >>Barrage>>> 100% tp Sidewinder

is that correct? so isn't a RNG subjob actually good? let the PLD sc w/ the mnk or drk, we can self chain ourselves for a nice amnt of damage? unless Sidewinder is shit for SAM after a certain level.

We lose dmg potential --> Double attack, warcry, berserk, 1 atk passive up, if we don't sub war.

We lose sc potential and hate control potential --> SA/TA, if we don't sub RNG

But what we do gain is massive tp growth? and if we equip the right items, isn't our ranged atk + our normal attack an immense amount of dmg? Provided we switch EQ every time we Range WS to provide better Range accuracy and Range atk.

yes/no?

[2.0]

Looks good on paper but without a ton of ranged accuracy/agility equipment + a bard it isn't really a viable option for an exp party.

[greysenn]

Barrage isn't instant. You have to use it, then shoot in order to get it to work. I guess if you get a rapid shot in after you use it, you might be able to pull off something of a self chain, but the chances are slim. The ability is also wildly inaccurate.

[dimsum86]

Barrage is a 4 in 1 shot after activated right? so ya... i guess no self chaining... o well, tp build up will still be really really fast then no?

besides.... if you really want, you can start farming for 2 sniper rings, get those +accuracy equip or them +3 agi earrings, forget what they are called.

[2.0]

No. That's not enough. You'll need more.

[fastcart]

Originally posted by dimsum86
Barrage is a 4 in 1 shot after activated right? so ya... i guess no self chaining... o well, tp build up will still be really really fast then no?

besides.... if you really want, you can start farming for 2 sniper rings, get those +accuracy equip or them +3 agi earrings, forget what they are called.

Drone earrings. And I respectfully disagree with "2.0."

My setup is emp hairpin, 2 drone earrings, 1 sniper ring, 1 sun ring, Rep Army mantle, Merman's Gorget, Myochin Kote, Life Belt (but I /equip macro to switch with Royal Knight's Belt when I use barrage), Winged Boots, Master's Gi, and Royal Knight's Breeches. Also, I use a Lightning Ring, but its only good for (you guessed it) Lightningsday.

So, that's normal +24 acc (+34 on Lightningsday), +13 agi, and +14 dex. But I use Meat Mithkabobs so that boosts my agi by 2 and str by 5. I stopped using Sidewinder in xp at 65 in favor of making light and dark renkeis with gkt. But, the Accuracy Bonus, Barrage for gaining tp when Mediate is down, and Alertness for pulling mobs (I'm the main puller) appeals to me more than lower accuracy, extra strength, double attack, etxra def+hp, and berserk for 2 minutes outta every 5 minutes (I never need Provoke). I prefer the quality of swings connecting over quantity of swings made (which may or may not connect). Helps a lot with regard to gkt ws in my opinion. YMMV

Barrage can hit up to 5 in 1 shot. But, usually its between 0 and 3.

Also, what race you play can a part in how you do. I play a hume, so I load up on dex, acc and agi. A mithra may want to load up on str and Acc, and let Agi and Dex slack some.

Note: for a hume sam/rng, you'll need at least 200% tp before using Sidewinder on xp mobs. I found the sweet spot is 240-280% tp. For some reason, my sidewinders were less accurate when I had full 300% even tho its supposed to be more accurate with more tp (I had to rush my renkei partner to use his ws before I hit 300%). What this meant for me was I had to alternate between gkt and bow ws depending upon whether Barrage or meditate was up or down. Also, bear in mind I pt with a bard.

To answer your questions in order:

1 - It depends on your bow, but I'd say using a gkt builds tp faster over bow. You can gain more tp per hit using a long bow, but a long bow is slower and can be more innacurate depending on the mob your against.

2 - Barrage is a maximum of 5 hits. If they all hit. But, average is 0-3. More with a bard and, as stated before, depending on the mob your against. I've gained 60+% tp on Velicoraptors in Terrigan at times. But, I always miss on the Perrytons there. YMMV.

Don't ever count on being able to self renkei. After the tp nerf, its just a lesson in frustration now. I've heard of ppl being able to do it post-nerf, but its more like a fluke now. Don't rely on this idea.

For Sam/Rng, their normal gkt damage is less than say sam/war. TP growth can be big, but its by no means constistent. Average growth using barrage betwen lvl 60-65 is like 30%. There will be times you'll get 60+%, and others you'll get 0%. Sidewinder damages averages around 600-800, but that's when the hit. And after lvl 65, you'll wantto switch back to gkt. For sam, the bow is ranked C+. At level 65, our gkt skill maxes at 227 while our bow skill maxes at 202 as oppose to being 203 for gkt and 190 bow at lvl 60. 25 skills lvl may not sound like much, but it is. Also, as I stated before, you'll probably be using gkt for weapon skills again at lvl 65+ because, even tho they are far from perfect, they are more accurate than Sidewinders.

I switched back to sam/war at lvl 65 until 67 and couldn't bear with the innaccuracies of weapon skills, difficulty in maxing bow as i leveled, lost of barrage, and lost of Alertness. I was much happier as a player when I switch back to sam/rng which, in turn, made me a better player.

So, take into consideration how long you want to stay sam/rng and whether it will be worth it for you. Me, I'm taking it to 75 with one more level to go. ^^

P.S. Before you decide its imperative for you to go off to kill Ramuh for the Lightning Ring, lemme tell you this. Take the 10k instead. The only difference I see when I use it a 200 hp loss (15%). When you get your accuracy bonuses up to a certain point, adding more won't make little difference if any.

P.S.S. I'm sure 2.0 will disagree with me on a number of (if not all) points. But, this is how I choose to play and I enjoy it. I encourage dimsum86 to make up his/her own mind and play whatever you think you'll enjoy the most.

Good luck.

[dimsum86]

wow, thanks for the indepth look on SAM/RNG! much appreciated.

Btw, them Windurstian CP rank 7-8 (forget) arrows, Patriarch Arrows, when you get them, do you get 1? or a stack? cuz 32,000 CP for 1 arrow is a bit much.

[greysenn]

You get "1" arrow or bolt for the CP. Hope you have unlimited shot :D

[fastcart]

Originally posted by greysenn
You get "1" arrow or bolt for the CP. Hope you have unlimited shot :D

Rng get Unlimited Shot at lvl 51. So, unless you magically get Sam to lvl 102, you can't make use of it.

greysenn is correct that you only get one Patriarch Protector's Arrow (got the name from Mysterytour). I use Scorpion Arrows. Yes, I can use Demon Arrows, but at 7-8k a stack, its a bit pricey. When I farm, I use Horn Arrows.

P.S. The link for MT is http://mysterytour.web.infoseek.co.j.../us/index.html

Great site.

[Geo]

http://home.comcast.net/~jenng2923/whmaf1.mpg

*holds up box off kleenex*

[Corrado]

You'd never be able to pull anything off like in that video in an exp party.

Secondly, barrage only fires 4 arrows with a lvl 30 sub, 5 with lvl 50 and 6 with lvl 70. Unless there's some secret the rest of the world doesn't know about, barrage won't hit for more than 4.

As for sidewinder, I don't see it hitting with a sam. Ranger mains have issues with that ws, so I don't see sams having a chance in hell of landing it semi-consistently.

[dimsum86]

*greatly inspired by video*
holy shit.

[fastcart]

Originally posted by Corrado
You'd never be able to pull anything off like in that video in an exp party.

Secondly, barrage only fires 4 arrows with a lvl 30 sub, 5 with lvl 50 and 6 with lvl 70. Unless there's some secret the rest of the world doesn't know about, barrage won't hit for more than 4.

As for sidewinder, I don't see it hitting with a sam. Ranger mains have issues with that ws, so I don't see sams having a chance in hell of landing it semi-consistently.

You could be right about using barrage as a sub because I learned what I know from a rng/war in my LS. But, I still get 60+% tp return when most hit (average is about 30%). The most I can ever get is about 77% but that's with all my store tp kicking in.

As for sidewinders, my experience disagrees with you. Granted I pt with a bard. But still, I stand by what I said about having 240-280% tp before using sidewinder. Even when I didn't have prelude when using sidewinder on xp mobs, as long as had the right amount of tp, I'd hit 6 outta 10 times (like I said, I stocked up on agi). And 8 outta 10 when I have prelude. Just alternate between sidewinder and gkt renkei depending upon whether meditate is ready or not. But whatever you do, don't try to sidewinder a perryton. lol. I was only able to hit perrytons with it when I was at a level when I coulda gone to Boyahda, but not consistently. I needed Sharpshoot as well as Prelude.

P.S. Just for fun, I used sidewinder on a skeleton xp mob in King Ranperre's Tomb at lvl 73. It hit, but did crappy damage as expected off a bone mob. I forgot whether I had prelude on or how much tp I had (prolly 212% or something). But, it's still possible to hit mobs with sidewinder after 65. It's ust better to use gkt ws for light and/or dark renkeis for consistency.

[John Doe III]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard Barrage = shots by your level. So, if your 50 then it shoots 5 bullets/arrows. May change due to sub...but that's what I heard.

[fastcart]

Just saw the vid. lol. Awesome. Taru beating maat at lvl 69. But, he had to burn a vile elixir and an icarus wing as well as hi potions to do it. Took me three tries. ;;

First time i was expecting maat to use his 2hr early in the fight like what most ppl says he does (and did the other 2 times). But, he waited and waited and it threw me off. Spinning attack did me in (the plan was to use hi pots after I dodged Shoulder tackle with 3rd eye). Second time, I lost due to mismanagement of macros (was too nervous) and Maat used Asuran Fist on me. ;; Third time, everything went just about perfect. 3rd eye disrupted his chain and he gave up after I made 3 renkeis on him (still had the tp for the 5th ws tho). I had 193 hp left...

I never used icarus wing or vile elixir tho, only hi potions.. I knew I could get in 4 renkeis if I had enuf hp to last while I 2hrd.

Sorry for the random ramble. The vid made me nostalgic. lol

Originally posted by Corrado
You'd never be able to pull anything off like in that video in an exp party.

Actually, you can come close. I use these macros in xp for when we get adds, a party member dies or about to die, or the party is about to end. ^^

Between lvl 65 and 70, you can:

Jinpu > 2hr > Gekko (Reverberation) > Mediate > Yukikaze (Induration) > Gekko (Fragmentation) > Gekko (Distortion)

After you get Kasha:

Jinpu > 2hr > Gekko (Reverberation) > Mediate > Yukikaze (Induration) > Gekko (Fragmentation) > Kasha (Light)

At low levels (33+), this should work to make your very own level two renkei:

Enpi > 2hr > Kagero (Liquefaction) > Mediate > Enpi (Scission) > Kagero (Liquefaction) > Goten (Fusion)

If you like simplicity, this will work without fail (except on ultra high evasion mobs). But, you'll need to be level 49+:

Jinpu > 2hr > Jinpu > Mediate > Jinpu > Jinpu > Jinpu ^^

Look at http://www.adennak.com/renkei.html and to see where I got my information from.

I set aside 3 spaces in a macro set so I could do the first two sets with ease (like against Maat).

Macro #1:
/ws "Tachi: Enpi" <t>
/p Using my 2hr. Don't interrupt my chain. <call5>
/equip head "Myochin Kabuto" (Note: I usually have emperor hairpin on)

Macro #2:
/ja "Meikyo Shisui" <me>
/wait 2
/ws "Tachi: Kagero" <t>
/wait 3
/ja Meditate <me>
/p Starting Macro #3 in 2 seconds! <call12>

*waits 2 seconds* <-- This is important or you won't have enuf tp for the final weapon skill

Macro #3:
/ws "Tachi: Enpi" <t>
/wait 5
/ws "Tachi: Kagero" <t>
/wait 5
/ws "Tachi: Goten" <t>
/p Macro series done!

The reason why Macro #1 is so short is that if I put /ja "Meikyo Shisui" <me> with it i'd have to put a /wait 4 before it and that could mess up the chain. Also, if you don't have enuf tp for Macro #1 you can just skip it.

Yes, you could do everything manually or the mob could move outta range at a bad moment. But, in the heat of battle or desperation, who wants to try to remember which ws is supposed to go next (except for jinpu series). 85% of the times this goes off without a hitch. It only messes up because I'm unable to perform the final renkei if Meditate happens to be down. ^^

Anyway, enuf rambling. Gone a long way to show Corrado that it is possible, but hopefully this will give other ppl ideas.