Static PT - SAM/RNG or RNG/SAM "better"?

[Narru]

Ok, a friend of mine was debating with me about this question:

"Which one will be better for a static PT past level 60?"

- Note we only care about efficiency in an EXP PT. Who cares which one can do more damage quickly, because you don't want to be hit and cause mages to waste mp healing you.
- This includes "buffer ability" which are things one can do where the other cannot, when the PT is in trouble and you need the monster dead, now.
- Also take gear a SAM or a RNG can use into consideration.
- SAM/RNG will be able to use Sidewinder, but not any of the higher WS's. Take that into consideration too.

Thanks for all input.

[Khaunshar]

Well, this entirely depends on the setup of the static party, in terms of jobs.

I'll assume a 3 mage/3 melee setup which seems most often picked post 60.

Whm
Blm
Brd/Rdm

Pld
?
?

Now, at 65 samurai get Tachi:Gekko... since you almost always have either a paladin or a ninja tanking, you have the necessary WS to create a Darkness chain. That is nice.

Rangers get Arching Arrow. It does NOT chain a level 3 with the paladin. Thus, you have to pick a second melee job that can do a level 3 with Arching Arrow. Looking at a chart, the most reasonable WS to chain with Arching Arrow (and later on Empyreal) are : Dragon Kick (hth), Spinning Slash (Greatsword) and Shark Bite(Dagger).

Intermediate Conclusion: If you take a ranger, you'll want MNK, THF or DRK as the second damage melee.

Note: Since rangers gain massive TP, usually other jobs cannot quite keep up. Thus, the ranger can do a second chain with the tank. Once again looking at the chart, until the final WS of sword, ranger cannot do a level 3 renkei with sword. So we're looking at something like Vorpal Blade >> Sidewinder for a level 1 chain.

Samurai: Samurai chain with the main tank for darkness. Samurai also have the TP to chain with a second member, which by coincidence COULD be a ranger.... though that will always be a level 2 chain. Before Tachi: Kasha, it'll usually look like this: Pld/Sam do Darkness, Sam/??? do a fragmentation/distortion chain. That's where rangers would be nice (they can charge TP up a bit higher while the sam chains with paladin, making for more accurate sidewinders). In general, you can mix/match ANY melee job with a samurai, as you have a) a guaranteed level 3 SC with the tank, and b) enough variety in WS to renkei with all the major available WS. If you want to be the "best you can be" though, a Greatsword using DRK , a THF or a MNK make the best renkei partners for a samurai. Gekko >>> Asuran Fists is sick :p

Conclusion: Samurai allow for more variety in jobs, as they dont really "cancel out" any melee's WS.
Rangers do more damage, and with the handpicked jobs to chain with, will do more damage than Samurai. HOWEVER: With a ranger in the party (and all chains will revolve around the ranger) you can ONLY EVER do light chains. Period. There is no Darkness level 3 renkei with a ranger.

With a samurai as the main renkei slave, you can do both Light and Darkness (and compared to for ex. Dragoon, both gekko and kasha are useful and decent damage WS) chains. So, if you dont know where you will level yet, I'd go with Sam/Rng (and use BArrage as mini-meditate)

[Bloodberry]

about 2 weeks ago I had a rng in my group (lvl60-61, in valley of sorrow) and I was sam/rng. I can just say, if you sj rng you will never beat a rng about dmg. he did always about 30-40% more dmg than me. and other problem is, he needs just ~150%+ TP to land sidewinder. but I need to save my TP till ~250% to hit with sidewinder. What I mean is, a sam can get faster tp than a rng, but you need to save your tp to have a chance to land a hit with sidewinder.

If you are looking for dmg so play rng or drk. I`m sam/rng just for these reason:

pro

- sam/rng has 2 weaponskill. that makes me flexible for any skillchain in a party.
- I can get faster TP than a sam/war or sam/thf. I have 2 abilities where I can push my tp up: meditate + barrage. with barrage if you land all 5 hits you will get ~50% tp back.
- Accuracy bonus is nice. grouped also with other sam in the same group. and I hit often than him.
- and Sidewinder is one the strongest ws. my dmg with sidewinder is most higher than guillotine, if he don`t use soul eater+last resort.

contra

- all you normal hits is weak, very weak.
- without provoke you can`t help for a trick attack on pld.
- sam/rng hasn`t unlimited shot so you will waste alot gil for arrows.
- don`t try use sidewinder under ~250% TP or without sharpshot on a IT mob.
- gear for rng acc+ is very expensive.

I have also other sj -> war and thf. and my feedback is:

play sam/war: if you want to play a true samurai.

play sam/thf: if you seek for dmg but wont spend alot of gil.

play sam/rng: if you seek power and use your katana just for build tp.

[Kyoujin]

If you're gonna fight bonez 65+ then sam/rng. At least that way you have a alternate to ranged damage. Piercing weapons, such as bows etc., do 50% of normal damage to undead.