Samurai....yeah we got boned again

[Eoyote]

Ugh, after reading the March-April announcements in the Developer's Room on POL, I am utterly disgusted.

Monk/Ninja get new job trait, Dragoons can now heal their wyverns.....Samurai.....still getting boned.

I don't want to turn this into another thread about what needs to be fixed/added to SAM, but why the hell is square improving jobs that hardly needed new shit/fixing to begin with? (well maybe the wyvern healing thing was needed, but still)

I always felt a little left out only having a very small number of Job Ability's/Traits, and thought for SURE we would be the next job to get an upgrade. Nope, screwed again.

Oh well, I have played Samurai ever since I unlocked the job, and it will be the job I finish playing the game as. I just hope to god that one day we get something......ANYTHING to compete with the other melee jobs.

BTW I think DRGs healing their wyverns will actually be unbalanced. They will now have a constant 2HR ability in effect. Sure, if you play your cards right you can almost always have your Wyvern alive, but now it doesn't seem they'll die at all....unless they are one-shotted.

/end rant XD

[Kyoujin]

Monks getting a new trait is kinda lame. They're already insanely massive as is. If SE truly is planning to nerf blink-tanking, as I hear, then ninja will need a lot of boosting. So it's good to see ninja getting something. With any luck they'll get more. No comment on the wyvern change. I'll have to see it in action first. My guess, however, is that it will bring them more in balance with monks and dark knights. Which is very much needed since they blow later on.

No love for the samurai...depressing.

[Kyoujin]

After reading the announcements myself, I'm almost positive that 'Subtle Blow' will be a skill to reduce the amount of TP you give a mob as you're kicking the snot out of it. For those who don't have a clue what I'm talking about... Mobs don't generate TP from smacking you around. They generate TP off your hits equal to the amount of TP you get (not including store TP) +3. If you think about that a second you'll see that monks and ninja have a strong disadvantage when it comes to HNMs. They give an HNM more TP to play with than any other melee. This is a big factor in the reason DRKs are preferred over MNKs on HNMs even though the MNK can do more damage.

No comment on this change until I find out just how big 'Subtle Blow' turns out to be. I honestly don't think that MNKs needed any kind of boost though.

EDIT: Typos and clarity.

[JexIntrepid]

I think every high lvl dmg dealing job needs a new abillity, sauf Dark Knights who have drk magic.

However, i Do believe there is inheretly a msg between the lines that points that certain ws that made sam look weak because they were spamable, won't be as uber. Meaning either
1) ppl will start subbing sam more to get meditate (which will suck cuz now sam main STILL wont be useful)

2) Samurai mains will definitely be the TP kings, as no other job even with all the now "nerfed' tp return will be able to compete to the amt of TP samurai normally get (140% wit meditate?)


Oh and another point: Monks DO need another ability. Though they may not seem to have much trouble now because of Asura fists, they do need something to make the road from lvls before Raging Fists a bit better. Or the road from lvl 49-65. At this point Pentathrust throws RF in the water. And most monks aren't picked mainly bc of crabs, and high demand for adv jobs (though that may really be n00bish of the leaders)

Mnks make mobs gain TP faster too, so if its a way to reduce their tp, that's fine....i guess, just hope it'll be somewhat more martial arts related, as both ninjas and monks are linked to martial arts.

Dragoons can still complain a bit at higher lvls, but i feel the use of wyverns now will be much more useful. Besides, if you keep the wyvern healed at 100 right before a mob does AoE you can dismiss it, and bring it back, but that'll be of course a very difficult task to pull off. Just glad Dragoons can actually make use of their entire 2hr. That's not unbalanced. If their wyvern dies, they HAVE NO MORE 2hr. in the emergency of an add or aggro, a drg with a dead wyvern is nothing more than a watered down warrior. Even if he did use his wyvern, chances are if the party is going to die, the wyvern isn't going to somehow save the party out of a big mess. Drk's SE+Bloodlust can do the trick (if it connects), Warrior's 2hr can do the trick with a bunch of critical hits, esp. if they're highly geared with good dmg equip, mnk 2hr can do the trick, so can Ninja's, Samurai also (esp if they use meditate for 5-self-ws), Pld with their invincibility, ...pretty much i think this makes up for the numerous times a dragoon would be pissed cuz his wyvern died, and he'd have to wait 2hrs cuz he never had a chance to heal it or else he'd lose TP, etc...etc etc...


Good job S-E. Now give Samurai a tweak in accuracy, and give us a cool passive ability like Meatbone Slash, where in critical HP, we can do as much dmg on 1-hit as our HP, with the chance of that kicking in like 10% or 14%. And we'll be happy if this update makes Samurai main more useful for TP gain etc.

[Rossb2k]

Not too sure about Penta "blowing RF out of the water".... Penta still is the most overrated WS in the entire game no matter which way you look at it. DRGs have horrible accuracy and delay even when well equiped. Even if penta did more damage, to me attacking 3 times for every 2 times a DRG attacks is far more valuable..

As far as Subtle Blow goes, I'm always interested in having new toys to play with ^^... giving the mob less TP off an Asuran or Raging Fists would be nice to say the least...

What good will having a Wyvern longer do? DRG still can't even come close to the damage MNKs DRKs and RNGs do even if they doubled the attack of the dumb bird... most of the wyverns will die in one shot anyway from anything that has a semi-strong WS.. assuming that there is no time limit to this healing ability.

I won't deny we need some help for fighting all those damn crabs and beetles... but then again we do turn out to be a very strong class later on, and I have no problem struggling through a few levels to get to the promised land instead of it being a walk in the park.

As for SAMs being the TP kings... there's no doubt about that... if only they didn't miss so much and had to rely on med just to keep up with other classes. -.-

[Kyoujin]

The bit about changing the TP returned from multi-hit weapon skills has me somewhat worried. I kind of enjoy being able to self-renkei. It would be nearly impossible to do so if all multi-hit weapon skills were to return TP for a single hit only. They haven't specified what they intend to do so one can only guess...

[Klades]

Seems to me that the multihit-WS change is probably because of the issue with unupgraded relic knuckles + Asuran Fist.
Whether that's going to have an impact on the rest of us, well, that remains to be seen.

Personally, I'll place my bets on them either:

• Putting a strict limit on the amount of TP you can gain from a WS.
• Reducing the amount of TP you gain from each hit on a WS (by half or so, for instance).
• Make the amount of TP you gain per hit from a WS a fixed amount, not based on the amount of TP you normally get per hit.

I suppose we'll find out in a month or so.

[JexIntrepid]

I mentioned this on another topic, but wouldn't it not be a good trait, and a better ability? "Subtle Blow" might have nothing to do with TP decrease in mob, or -enmity. Well, if it does have to do with less TP gain for mob, that might work, but i don't think it'd be an -enmity trait.

Being that alot of war sub both mnk AND nin at times, having it as a trait for a provoker would not be healthy.

[Zafron]

If what i have read pans out SAMs should be very happy about this patch. From what i have read Multi-Hit WS are being nerfed as follows:

Full tp for first hit + 1tp for each additional hit

So for example a fully connecting Penta-thrust will only return 17.5 tp. Guillo will be like 18, and i dont know about any MNK skills.

If thats the case then on paper it seems DRGs are the big losers, since no one seems to like wheeling thrust and impulse drive.

[samurai_Marek]

if thats how it works then i'm glad, its frustrating to be hasted and spam meditate and still not keep up with some of the other classes

[Tsubame]

Originally posted by JexIntrepid

Being that alot of war sub both mnk AND nin at times, having it as a trait for a provoker would not be healthy.

Exactly, Square doesn't want Nin to be blink-tanks, so they may be using a passive -enmity to discourage that. It's as good a start as any, but Nin needs other things to compensate.

[JexIntrepid]

what about those warriors that sub nin for dual axe and blink at lvl 74? and those warriors that sub monk for the HP bonuses, etc.

if they have a lower enmity trait, that really makes warriors even less of a tank compared to plds.

[Tsubame]

Well, high level Wars rarely are tanks. Plus, if a Warrior is subbing Ninja for dual-axes, they aren't going to be tanking.

And if they are subbing Ninja for Utsusemi, well..isn't Square trying to make Nin less of a tank? So obviously, your not going to want to encourage tanks to sub it .

[Melkor]

Its not like Ninjas rely on weapon dmg to keep hate anyways, they use other Ninjutsu(sp) and Thieves to keep the hate.
So the -enmity wouldnt really hurt them, just other classes that use Mnk and Nin for sub, and may make damage dealers like monks and other classes that sub them more powerful.

Giving the monster less TP per hit since they attack twice seems more likely.

[Eoyote]

I agree if they indeed lessen the TP gain off of penta, guill etc, we wont need to bust our asses so much to keep up, but, I can't see myself using a spear when playing solo anymore =/