Meditate...how do you use it?

[Cali]

I only played my SAM to 10, so many might say I am not qualified to say anything about SAM players who are 40+.... but I just want to ask... how do you guys use your meditate and your TP advantage?

On my server, the NA SAM and JP SAM has a big difference....

NA SAM: know nothing about skillchain... >_>; can't do 2x skillchain... although they spam meditate, but they always waste it at 100% on Enpi... then his skillchain partner has to wait for him to recharge... or trying to stack up to 300% tp every skillchain... when he/she is responsible for 2 seperate skillchains...

JP SAM: know about skillchain(well, they played 2 years more than us... but at 40+, I would expect a little knowledge on skillchain) always do 2x chain.... spam meditate like crazy as well, but can manage to do 2x chain 1 after the other in a blink...

I personally think the JP SAM is better, at least creating 2 skillchains at a short interval with 2 different player...
I think the correct way to use meditate in PT is to do it like the JP SAM, by keeping TP at a constant rate, so they can do nonstop skillchains...

Another way to use meditate is to create a self chain.... but that require a skillchain chart, or sad enough to remember the skillchain table here are 2 examples:

self chain: meditate > enpi > enpi
self massive chain: meditate > enpi > enpi > 2hrs > kagero > enpi > kagero

but am just interested to see what you SAM players think is the correct way to use Meditate, the godly skill every melee wants...

[swordchucks]

the JP way is the right way its what meditate is supposed to be for really. But alot of NA players dont think tactically they think they have to be the one that kills everything not the group as a whole,plus i dunno alot of parties i was in on my WAR even 30 + sucked a doing renkei anyway unless there was a good SAM in the party who beat it into them. I dont really get whats so hard about it...report tp,remember your place,go 3 seconds after the guy before you why is that so hard?

[Cali]

Don't get me started lol.... I can whine all day on them not being able to skillchain.... at all...
I was in a PT with a NA SAM, we were going to nest, and we had 2 more melee... 4 melee 2mage party, lets put the formation aside... but having a sword-user and a spear-user... what chain would you create in nest? distortion, no? and luckily enough the team could create 2x distortion.... but no... after my careful planning of the skillchains, with me doing single ws, because mnk doesn't chain well in nest.... they all said 'ok'... and then we were doing fusion... >_>; explanation? they didn't get a word I said... simple instruction like, 'we are doing 2x skillchains, because we have a SAM. the 2 chains are enpi > seraph, and double thrust > enpi' .... but no.. the SAM at one point stack TP slower than my monk... I could get to 300% when he hit 100%... he insisted to take me into chain, or he can't do chain at all... >_>;

I don't wanna sound racist... but every SAM I pted with that spoke japanese can play SAM like how they should do... but every SAM I pted that spoke english, either mess up skillchains by doing enpi nonstop, ignoring tp of partners... or just trying to get to 300 before using skillchain.... <_<;

[kujo412]

i barely picked up on what you posted.. .-. grammar needed.

from what i did pick up you think NA sams suck because they use meditate ineffectively.

the sad truth is, yes. that is often the case.. most of the NA sam i've seen like to spam meditate, alot of the time they use meditate while somebody is off pulling.. w.t.f.
another way i see it used is one i think you mentioned.. they already have enough tp to ws, but they use med to fill the tp bar even more.. another w.t.f.

both of those are BAD ways to use meditate, as you get nothing from it. the former you sit waiting idly for other people to catch up, and then you can only pull off one chain..
the latter is SOMEWHAT correct, but the way i spelled it out is wrong, using it to go from 100tp > 200tp is plain stupid.. it may add 30 damage on to your ws.. instead of doing another ws entirely for 200..


the way i like to do things is build 100tp whacking away at the mob, well maybe more, i just whack away until another group member has enough tp for a ws (normally i start the chains rather than finish them =X ). so a group member and i are ready to chain, i use med, then IMMEDIATELY fire off a ws (normally jinpu or enpi). i do it this way so that if that other group member misses my ws text or call i can fire off another ws for the self-chain, or if they connect (which they often do) i am ready for a ws with the third melee in the group.

my spt setup is pld, whm, brd, blm, thf, sam. so most often we do enpi > viper and enpi > seraph, and if either one misses, like i mentioned, i just fire off jinpu for the distortion chain so the blm can still burst with blizz 2.

i'm not saying my way is 100% correct, i'm just saying that's how i use meditate for maximum efficiency.

i see other people who like to fire off a ws, then use med immediately after, which is just as effective as the way i do things for renkeing with 2 pt members, but i have the benefit of being able to self-chain if the person i'm attempting to renkei with misses something along the way.

so i dunno, take my post as you will. right, or wrong. =X

[VeggeNeedsFFXI]

Personally alot of the time I PTed was without another. A couple other times were JP or friends of mine who knew what they were doing. Personally 10min into a PT I can judge the TP growth of members and know when I can solo my WS and still have TP to chain. I use Meditate while waiting for the puller depending on the TP the other 2 members have. 1 Reason be is I have Tachi: Yukikaze and extra 100% can mean the difference between 25- and 500+ dmg. Tachi: Yukikaze is sorta incosistant. My highest damage was 596 against an IT and I believe I have about 101% TP the most I have gotten with 300% is maybe 570. Also I get about 200-250 with 100% most of the time. I can proudly say I was never one of those SAMs you mention. I have always cared about the MB first and foremost. Alot of people do not get that though. Example: We dont need a BLM get another Melee. /slap get out my party ya (for lack of a better word) noob. Wait I like unexperience novice player a little better because I don't sound like I am a teenager

[Cali]

Originally posted by VeggeNeedsFFXI
We dont need a BLM get another Melee.

LOL it's so true it's funny... I have been in like 2 or 3 pt that day(got lucky), and then when we had 3 melee, so I suggested 'get white black and whatever for the last mage'... then they will get a whm and 2 more melee =_=;; they really believe melees are the main damage-dealer... when MB can actually speed up a battle...

Well, sorry for the bad grammar, not english... but I am allowed to post even though I am not english or NA, right?

1 thing I want to ask is, JP sites said if we are to do self chain, we need to use meditate before using the WS... but I personally think it's better to use after the 1st WS.... does it make a difference, using meditate before or after?

[kujo412]

eh, i figured you weren't NA all is well though.

as for self chains you do have to use meditate before the ws, otherwise meditate takes too long to charge. if you use meditate after firing off a ws it's nearly, if not, impossible to be on time with the next ws.


80tp+ > Meditate > 2 hit WS (Enpi or Jinpu) > Both hits land, hit mob once, might need to get hit once pre-50 too > 2nd WS (doesn't matter which :3 ) > Skillchain

[krycis]

I'm NA and I believe that I'm a pretty damn good samurai. There is not one party I join that I do not construct the skillchains to be effective for monster type and include anyone that's viable for skillchaining. I know where most, if not all, skills sit for my party's level (read: all weapon types) which allows me to pick chains qucikly and create chains ad hoc when set chains aren't available due to TP disparity (miss-fests, resting, etc...). I spent all of my "youth" leveling 4 weapons, which allowed me to get acquainted with many different pools of skills. Don't tell me that because I'm an NA player, I don't know what's up.

As for med use: I will sometimes use med in between fights, this is not a bad thing, if you know how to think in terms of TP generation and how long you're waiting for a pull. If you're sitting at 25%, have med and your puller has just left the gates to pull a soldier crawler....knowing that he has 45%TP and atleast a minute to pull, odds of you having med ready when you need it next are high. In general I'll know when people have 100% TP, if they give me atleast a little bit of information about their levels during fights. I know that a scythe will generate about 12% per hit, or a sword will net 6%. I know that when it comes to chain a second time, I'll be ready.

As an example I did so well at getting two chains per fight as fast as possible, I had to delay the second chains to keep the agro from our BLM. If we had wanted to, the chains that I enabled, would have killed our Taru friend! Don't tell me NA don't know how to setup efficient chains. =)

I'm by no means a "pro" at FFXI. I did have a bit of an advantage, I leveled a beta character to 16 or so...not by any means far, on top of my NA-release character. I'm just not stupid, nor selfish. Hell, last night I brought kabobs and juice for a party of people I didn't know, just so we could be effective. We'd have been moreso, had a replacement MNK not wanted to pet an Exo while our puller returned with a Soldier. Less to say, the instant I saw that Exo agro...I told our BLM to get Escape going.

I could continue to toot my horn, but I'm sure you're getting my drift....NA does not equal moron. Moron equals moron.

[Ipwnzuall!!!111]

That does seem like a pretty racist generalization.

It's true that many NA players aren't as concerned with efficiency as they are having fun, but to each his own.

Anyway, I'm not flaming you... but speaking as an NA player who plays his character better than your average JP (or even your skilled JP), I'd like you to keep in mind that race and ethnicity are not in any way a requisite to being a good player. I know that here on the boards you say that you're not being a racist, and I believe you-- it's true that more NA players aren't as effective in parties as JP players are; however, if in practice, you don't invite someone to your PT just because they're NA, it's still racism. Now, from a more statistical approach, if 80% of JP players are effective and 15% of NA players are effective, ask JP players if you're not a gambling sort. Racism it may be. Statistical it may be.

Well, for whatever that speech was worth, there you go.

[Klades]

Personally, I normally save Meditate until a PT member has 100+ TP when I don't, then I fire it and start the chain the moment I hit 100. To that end, I prefer starting chains rather than ending them... much easier to time it so that I don't waste much TP.

[Kurgan]

Here's how I've used Meditate to the fullest in a JP party:

Melee fighters in PT: WAR/NIN (x2) and SAM/WAR (me)

Both WAR/NIN's have at least one 1H sword equipped and are exchanging tanking duties with Utsusemi: Ichi and Provoke.

A-Team: WAR/NIN + SAM/WAR
Red Lotus Blade >> Tachi: Goten >> Fusion

B-Team: WAR/NIN + SAM/WAR
Red Lotus Blade >> Tachi: Goten >> Fusion

Basically, when one WAR/NIN reaches 100% TP, I will normally already be at 100% TP or higher. If not, he'll wait til I'm at 100% TP. I pay attention to the other WAR/NIN's TP. Usually he'll be at or close to 100% TP, as well. Then we start A-Team skillchain Red Lotus Blade >> Tachi: Goten >> Fusion. Immediately after I execute Tachi: Goten, I use meditate. Within a few seconds, I reach 100% TP again. I pop off my TP check macro to indicate to the other WAR/NIN that we're ready for B-Team skillchain, and we execute Red Lotus Blade >> Tachi: Goten >> Fusion again.

You can't beat two level 2 renkei's in one battle, and being able to do it every other battle. I am usually able to renkei with at least one of the WAR/NIN's in the battle in between while Meditate charges back up. I'll often use my Berserk ability on that fight in between when I can't use Meditate to do two renkeis.

[davidmmmm9]

Originally posted by Kurgan
You can't beat two level 2 renkei's in one battle

how about 3 level 3 renkeis? ; P

[Typhoon]

I don't know if anybody else thinks this way, but I think that anybody who doesn't know how to skillchain or a person who doesn't have a copy of the skillchain chart printed out is detrimental to the party in such a way that I would be hard pressed to invite them again until they figured it out.

I find it similar to a person who hasn't leveled up their subjob to the maximum level that their main level let's it be. If a party member doesn't try his hardest to be what he can be, how hard will he try in the party? There's a direct correlation here.

So the lesson is, work hard and reap the rewards, be a lazy ass and people will be sure to notice .

[swordchucks]

question for the more experienced an wise samurai here. What do you do with an idiot (in this case WHM, a BLM i might repect since they matter as far as renkei) whos trying to determine the chain so they can be part of it. I mean is it really that important for the whm to be able to burst banish 1 rather that us possibly hit a more painful chain? Maybe its just valkurm,people think they know everything be they a newbie with no sub and rank 1 or a rank 7

[Arnda]

As a tank, I love nothing more than a SAM and a BLM working together, and I agree that the efficiency method is much, much better.

See, as a PLD I'm not the best attacker in the world, and while I am getting TP from tanking itself, my bar builds slower than most other (good) melees who focus on accuracy and attack to deal damage.

Enter the SAM. I no longer have to blow my TP at the end of the battle because I might have to sit, or with Refresh, I can actually chain once per battle. And it's all because of proper use of Meditate. The SAM can go ahead with the Enpi -> Viper or whatever, Meditate it up, and be ready to go when I finally get my pokey butt up to 100%. Then the BLM gets to burst twice.

I don't think anything really needs to be said about the value of double or triple MBs from an up-to-date BLM. Too bad we always wind up with yet another DRK instead of a SAM, any SAM, even a BAD one. You guys need to start making your job more attractive or something. Talk up the benefits of cool pajamas.