A little Swordsman trivia

[Kyolii]

According to the Chinese Kung Fu (work with me here) philosophy of swordplay, there are several steps, or levels, of a swordsman's evolution:

1: First, a swordsman must become one with his sword. When he does, he can kill with anything, a dull blade, a stick, even a blade of grass.

2: Then, a swordsman becomes so skilled that he no longer needs his sword. Undefeatable, he can kill from fifty feet away without a weapon.

3: Lastly, a swordsman's skill and depth of knowledge becomes perfect when he realizes he no longer needs to kill. He puts down his sword, and, at peace with the world around him, denounces killing. He uses his Kung Fu only to help others around him.

Good stuff, I think.

[Kensai]

is this from the movie "Hero" if not it is on there too.

[Seulgaist]

Why would Chinese Kung Fu principles apply to Japanese Samurai?

[Rico]

He's right :sweat:

[shock~moredheL]

I love that movie! lol

[TMPikachu]

Originally posted by Seulgaist
Why would Chinese Kung Fu principles apply to Japanese Samurai?

let's see...
samurai wielded katanas, a sword forged with steel folding techniques, which the Chinese taught the japanese

samurai wore an armor made up of metal plates woven together, a style that came from China to Japan (generally called lamellar, if yah really want to know)

samurai followed zen buddhism (usually), a path of thinking that originated in China and adopted in Japan (I know buddhism came from India, but it got to Japan through Chinese traders/diplomats)

what would China know of samurai?

Kung fu is a very very broad word in chinese, it literaly means something like "mighty" or "strong" or "strength"
it can be used as an adjective to describe something
for example... someone who is an accomplished carpenter could be said to do his job with great "kung fu"
and an accomplished swordsmen could fight with "kung fu" too.
and again, chinese martial arts is an increadibly broad category, considering the 4000-5000+ year history of it all, and the great expanse of land the country we call China covers.

*Duel To The Death

a movie about a Chinese martial artists and Japanese Samurai who must duel to the death to prove who is stronger (it's a rival clan thing, every generation sends their best to fight)
It has ALOT of talk on the two societies different and similar views towards life/fighting/etc.

[Seulgaist]

Just because some of the roots are from China, it doesn't mean it's still the same. You don't hear Americans speaking the Queen's English, do you? Unless those words about swordsmanship appear in any Japanese text relating to samurai, it's worth jack shit.

[TMPikachu]

Originally posted by Seulgaist
Just because some of the roots are from China, it doesn't mean it's still the same. You don't hear Americans speaking the Queen's English, do you? Unless those words about swordsmanship appear in any Japanese text relating to samurai, it's worth jack shit.

but they speak english :/

with an accent. but it's still understandibly english

It's not entirely the same, some roots, as you have said yourself, are the same.

and roots are well... the roots of things, y'now? I don't quite get why you're being so bull headed here

[Seulgaist]

Because it's all irrelevant. There's no point.

[Gen]

Yah.. a Samurais Swordmans psychology is more tuned towards honor and killing , even in the event that it leads to your own death.

Read the Hagakure if you can..will give a good idea of what a samurai was.

[Loc]

What does this have to do with Samurais or ffxi, nothin it looks like.

[TMPikachu]

Originally posted by Seulgaist
Because it's all irrelevant. There's no point.

'


there IS a relevance though, you even said so yourself, the root of it is similar. Kind of like how american literature has 'roots' to shakespeare, even if the bloke lived across the ocean a few centuries ago.

This is just a discussion on samurai in general, which is nice, even if it doesn't quite have to do with FFXI samurai.

if you want to get all super technical, FFXI samurai are not samurai, rather they are warriors who fight with special skills, as to be a samurai is to be born into that social position.


even events and such that would seem entirely unrelated can show similarities

for example, though china may have been the closest influence to Japan, the warrior class of the Samurai is more comparable to that of European knights, nobility who provide themselves as warriors to their kings, while in China the army was more of an equal oppertunity deal.

and if you want to go even more into the history of samurai, the 'real' samurai...
well, they had their origins as mercenaries who fought for money and food.
the Hagakure... I believe that was written at a time when samurai were beginning to fade out, not positive though, it's more romanticised idealogy than actual practice I've heard
what year was it written? that would clear up my doubts


Back to the kung fu/samurai thing... well...

lots of chinese martial artists, or the ideals they held, was perfection of their art, to be the strongest. Kinda like what samurai spent their time doing too, perfecting their killing skills.

[Seulgaist]

Irrelevant as in it's just a game.

Samurais in FFXI aren't real samurais. It's just a job. There's no point in spouting philosophies.

If you want to follow the same kind of reasoning, why don't we all go to the White Mage section and bring up some quotes from the Bible? How about Nordic law for Warriors? How about Monasticism for Monks? Let's have a whole jamboree of philosophy, or a kegger for scripture and rituals.

Point is, there is no point. Try to not take this game so damn literal.

[TMPikachu]

of course there's no point, it's a game, you're the only one making a big deal out of this simple, pointless discussion. Someone thought it would be cool to bring up some neato quotes, I don't see why you must be so adamant in your position of irrellevence, and you really care alot for something that doesn't matter. You even changed your point from "kung fu isn't samurai" to "samurai are not FFXI samurai", like you just enjoy disagreeing. I even said FFXI samurai were just jobs, I even have a short explination of what 'real' samurai were, you're just repeating everything I typed with a horribly negative spin that sucks all fun from the atmosphere. Why not have that jamboree, if someone wants to start it. It's like you're afraid to have any sort of influence from FFXI outside of whacking digital monsters. Noone is exactly forcing you to post on this one topic of many on the samurai board. If you really don't care about irrelevent samurai banter, then ignore this topic.

[Seulgaist]

lol you seem to be getting more worked over it then I am.