Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

[cidbahamut]

This has been bugging me for a while, but I have to break down and finally admit I'm mostly flying blind with my nuking set at this point. I tried mathing it out a few months back but the formulas always came down to needing to know an actual value for dINT and I didn't know how to get that short of some really rough guesswork and fieldtesting every mob in the game.

So now I'm getting to the point where I'm having to sit down and choose between pumping up dINT and stacking on more and more Magic Attack Bonus gear and I'm really not sure at what point I need to stop prioritizing one over the other.

I guess what I'm asking for is someone with a better understanding of the game mechanics to explain to me how I can best go about figuring out the cut-off point where I need to stop stacking INT and just pile on MAB in all the leftover spaces.

nuking set in case it's relevant

sub: Bugard leather strap +1
head: Warlock's Chapeau
neck: Elemental Torque / Uggy pendant when appropriate
ear: Moldavit Earring
ear: Morion Earring +1
body: Teal Saio
hands: Errant Cuffs
ring: Snow Ring
ring: Snow Ring
back: Prism Cape
waist: Cognition Belt
legs: Teal Slops
feet: Wise Pigaches

[Icemage]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

On RDM? For BLM, Magic Attack Bonus is better almost always simply because the base damage of the high end spells is so large that even small amounts of MAB produce large numeric increases in damage compared to INT.

For a RDM, you're stuck with two problems; resist rates and base damage. RDMs don't have good nuking spells to start with, and only have so-so Elemental skill. As a general rule, you'll want to push INT more than MAB on Red Mage just so you can improve the accuracy of your nukes. "How much" to push INT really depends on what you're fighting; lower level enemies won't resist as much (and tend to have lower INT to resist your spells with), and so in those cases you can go with more MAB.


Icemage

[Taskmage]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

I did damage numbers for Aero IV with an HQ staff, first assuming a dINT of 0 and again assuming dINTs of 50 and -50. In either case, raw damage-wise 1 point of MAB roughly equals 2 points of INT. So for max damage, favor MAB items unless you can get twice as much INT in the same slot. Do keep in mind though that each point of INT is contributing accuracy as well, so if two items are closely matched you may want to favor INT.

math

(440 + 0 * 2) * 1.15 * 1.28 = 647
(440 + 0 * 2) * 1.15 * 1.29 = 652
(440 + 2 * 2) * 1.15 * 1.28 = 653

(440 + 50 * 2) * 1.15 * 1.28 = 794
(440 + 50 * 2) * 1.15 * 1.29 = 801
(440 + 52 * 2) * 1.15 * 1.28 = 800

(440 + -50 * 1) * 1.15 * 1.28 = 574
(440 + -50 * 1) * 1.15 * 1.29 = 578
(440 + -48 * 1) * 1.15 * 1.28 = 577

[Mhurron]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

Really really really basic relationship is MAB > INT. Common knowledge has it at 2 INT = 1 MAB.

Of course as RDM, you often don't have to make a choice.

You could replace the Wise feet with the Cobra feet from campaign (does RDM get other feet with MAB?), and consider replacing the Bugard strap with the elemental grips. Then of course the HQ elemental staves or the Elemental Magian Staves.

There is also the Cassandra's/Helenus's earring set to replace the Moldavite if you want to camp for it. It will give you the same MAB and add some MACC. You can use that until you have a second MAB earring, then go back to using the Moldavite with that.

[Taskmage]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

(does RDM get other feet with MAB?)

Duelist's Boots have 4 MAB.

I've been camping Cassandra/Helenus. The drop rate is pretty dismal. Been sitting on half the set for effectively months.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

does RDM get other feet with MAB?

Relic feet get MAB +4, which I'm hoping to come across in the near future.

consider replacing the Bugard strap with the elemental grips

My inventory would like a word with you out back. He brought his trusty moderator mister 2x4.

I guess I can work with the 2:1 ratio as a rule of thumb then, and have it really just boil down to a matter of how often I'm getting resisted and go from there.

[Taskmage]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

I guess I can work with the 2:1 ratio as a rule of thumb then, and have it really just boil down to a matter of how often I'm getting resisted and go from there.

You could keep an accuracy-focused set and a damage-focused set, have spellcast check your target against a list of highly resistant targets and switch as appropriate. There's a great deal of overlap so it would only be slightly more inventory intensive.

[Mhurron]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

RDMs don't have good nuking spells to start with, and only have so-so Elemental skill.

RDM has the same Tier IV spells BLM had and can natively get higher elemental skill then BLM had at 75. With that. the HQ staves (or magian staves) and the elemental grips, RDM should be able to put damage out somewhat comparable to what BLM did unless the mob has higher than average resistance.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

You could keep an accuracy-focused set and a damage-focused set, have spellcast check your target against a list of highly resistant targets and switch as appropriate.

I don't think that'd really be flexible enough. I've heard of that solution before and it always seemed like really poor programming to me. I'd rather put in a toggle of some sort so I can change it on the fly.

[Mhurron]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

My inventory would like a word with you out back.

You don't need them all. I only have the Ice/Thunder/Dark for nuking/Drain/Aspir/Bio and a Elementa Grip for the other elements.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

Am I missing something about the elemental grips? Mhurron seems particularly enamored of them and I'm not sure why.

[Taskmage]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

I don't think that'd really be flexible enough. I've heard of that solution before and it always seemed like really poor programming to me. I'd rather put in a toggle of some sort so I can change it on the fly.

That would be a good way to do it. The list of resistant mobs I was thinking of was in Aikar's blm template. It's much more reasonable for a blm since the list of mobs that give them trouble with resists is much shorter.

---------- Post added at 09:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------

Am I missing something about the elemental grips? Mhurron seems particularly enamored of them and I'm not sure why.

I could see 2 accuracy outperforming 1 int over time, but I don't find them worth the space. I don't even carry a bugard strap, though.

[Mhurron]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

Am I missing something about the elemental grips? Mhurron seems particularly enamored of them and I'm not sure why.

Why do you get the HQ elemental staves over the NQ?

[cidbahamut]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

Why do you get the HQ elemental staves over the NQ?

The extra 5% damage output mostly. The extra 10 magic accuracy is also pretty rad.

+2 Magic Accuracy at the cost of a ton of extra inventory slots: not so rad.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Nuking: How much INT vs MAB

That would be a good way to do it. The list of resistant mobs I was thinking of was in Aikar's blm template. It's much more reasonable for a blm since the list of mobs that give them trouble with resists is much shorter.

I think I had like four mobs for which I equipped my elemental skill set over my full-out nuking set. Tia, Khim, Ouryu, and something else. It was pretty easy, just make the set and then put an if clause with target= and it was something I never had to think about. If I was on that job, I always had every piece of gear I might need in any given situation anyway. On RDM that list will probably be a bit longer (and these days because of new NMs that I don't know) but generally for RDM nuking, if I was sure the mob wasn't going to resist heavily, I equipped MAB where I could and INT everywhere else. There wasn't a lot of MAB gear for RDM if I remember correctly.