RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

[WishMaster3K]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Nice video. That RDM had some pretty pro gear. Obviously its possible to stand up to Faust, but unless you want everyone to stand around for half an hour, "tanking" is a stretch.

[Icemage]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Guess you have never heard of being uninterupptable its ok most people haven't, it takes -102% spell interrupt gear to get it, RDM can equip -111%, meaning a mob can hit us all day long, and a RDM can cast any spell he wants without getting stopped. So ya, moot point is moot. (read my post at the top of the page).

Pray tell what sort of gear you'd need to get that much spell interrupt reliably and still be able to tank anything harder than a Colibri.

Most spell interruption gear is janky and strange stuff like Druid's Rope. I think the only vaguely decent pieces for RDM that have it are Nashira Turban(10%), Magnetic Earring(8%) and Warlock's Tabard+1(12%). You can get up to 8% from merits. Where are you finding -102% without sacrificing some of the other gear you've been going on and on about in the first post? Or heck, if you're casting Aquaveil for 25%, even 77% is a stretch in "tanking" gear.

Also who tanks byakko anymore, is this 2005 again, jeez..... Burn with mages or melee and be over with it.

Yeah, because you can instantly burn Byakko down reliably without him doing amusing things like paralyzing everyone. Have you ever actually fought Byakko, or are you just parroting what you've read on BG, hmm?

that works too, but I don't think some of the people in this thread are ready for that.

Sure if you've got a SAM/THF to Trick Attack a pile of enmity on you, that's not a problem. But you've still not made the case for why you'd choose to use RDM/BLU over RDM/NIN in any practical situation (aside from killing time with friends).


Icemage

[WishMaster3K]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

There's no convincing him otherwise, so we might as well humor him and speculate how in the hell it CAN work.

[Vyuru]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

If you are pulling hate than that is your own issue

No, it is the tank's issue.

If I am pulling hate on Drg while trying to loss hate, which is considered one of the easiest jobs to ditch hate on, with a Pld tank. This is with using all of my jumps to try to suppress enmity or ditch enmity. And if they can't keep hate off of me, then they for sure aren't going to be taking hate off of the Sam, Drk, etc.

If you can't reliably keep hate off of DDs trying to avoid taking hate then you have no business tanking. I do not see a Rdm being able to hold hate on it's own. You're going to probably need Thf or /Thf to TA onto you and then you're going to need to be /nin in order not to lose alot of enmity by taking damage.

And frankly Icemage makes alot of good points.

[MrMageo]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Pray tell what sort of gear you'd need to get that much spell interrupt reliably and still be able to tank anything harder than a Colibri. Most spell interruption gear is janky and strange stuff like Druid's Rope. I think the only vaguely decent pieces for RDM that have it are Nashira Turban(10%), Magnetic Earring(8%) and Warlock's Tabard+1(12%). You can get up to 8% from merits. Where are you finding -102% without sacrificing some of the other gear you've been going on and on about in the first post? Or heck, if you're casting Aquaveil for 25%, even 77% is a stretch in "tanking" gear.

First off Aquaviel doesnt provide any -interrupt anymore, it just causes you to cast unhindered a set number of times. The long cast of it and stoneskin combined make it essentially worth less to use. The gear I listed on first post of page 2 gives you -111% which is more than -102%. It also leaves room for 8% fast cast (dbody, and loq ear) as well as -15% damage reduction. (2 ring slots and ASA pants.) Not only that, 1 hit (and yes it will only be one hit) is not going to kill me, and the damage I do take, I can heal the enmity back. Hell if a taru SMN can survive a single hit from an NM than I sure hope a naked RDM can with pro5/cocoon/phalanx and -15% damage reduction. Just how hard do you think these mobs hit. I mean seriously.

Yeah, because you can instantly burn Byakko down reliably without him doing amusing things like paralyzing everyone. Have you ever actually fought Byakko, or are you just parroting what you've read on BG, hmm?

Ive fought him many a time, I used to make a living off of a 6 man byakko burn team that would kill him in a little over a minute. 4xRDM/SCH, 2xRDM/DRK we used to chainspell drain him to death, while the drk stunned him. After chainspell wore we simply used a few tier 3's until he was dead, while the second /DRK chainspell stunned him. No tank just a fast mana burn.

There's no convincing him otherwise, so we might as well humor him and speculate how in the hell it CAN work.

No there is convincing me otherwise but all ive seen is repeated crap that ive provided proof against. A RDM can't get that much def and that much -pdt Wrong. The mob will just hit you and interrupt you, Wrong. You will burn way to much mana buffing and debuffing, why would the RDM tank have to buff and debuff if other tanks don't.

The only legit issue that I have agreed with is the fact that a PLD/NIN is better in every way. I have not once said the contrary, of course several would try to put words in my mouth, I also didn't say it was better than what RDM/NIN was, but since RDM/NIN isn't what it was that is a moot point, because it is essentially useless now. As it has no way of generating its own enmity at all, and frankly you need a little more than a TA WS from a big DD to hold hate in the mid to end of the fight.

I also concede that a RDM/BLU will likely take a few dozen more DMG than a PLD per hit, and I also concede the fact that stoneskin doesn't replace a shield. However, I am not arguing against a PLD tank, again the last line of the initial post read it, its for fun and it is situational for nights when a PLD may not be available.


I have refuted Ice Mage's continual incorrect assumptions, several times, I still don't know what BBQ was talking about, either. Wish brought up some good points, but his reasoning behind some things irks me. Vyruu also brought up a valid point, that a tank that can't generate enmity shouldn't be tanking. But considering the fact a RDM/BLU can generate enmity, infact heaping loads more than the damage it will take in, outside of a potential hit during a recast of stoneskin in a -interrupt set, will not be anywhere near the amount generated between when those hits occur.

I am not sure if you have fought many of the "big bad" NM's since abyssea has launched but they are push overs. The old sky rule of 320 skill 110 INT/MND to land enfeebles is redundant, hell I can get that with natural skill and very few items equipped, kings may require a rdm to equip a tabard to land a spell on now. ToAU crap has always been highly resistant if not immune to stuff, but then again very few useful things drop from them anyway. Abyssea NM's are a joke, hell anyone could probably tank them if they spent 200K on the elixer of god.

Endgame is drastically smaller, and less "intense" most of the content can be low manned, a lot can be solo'd, duo'd, trio'd. Nothing we used to require an ally for requires and hell. Hell 6 SMN's damn near solo AV. Situations for the out of norm job mixes crop up all the time, Heck I tanked a level 64 Party today as DNC/WAR, blood tanking on bird because we couldn't find a proper tank, no deaths at all and i got my DNC to lvl 76.

I still have yet to see any constructive criticism other than the age old crap that if it ain't cookie cut it won't work. Is it ideal, no but i never claimed it to be ideal, all I have said since page one is it is workable. If you can get a PLD at your beck and call, by all means do so, if you can not, then there are plenty of alternatives, SAM,MNK,DRK,DNC all have the ability to tank to a degree, as does RDM/BLU. Those jobs have the luxury of getting shadows, where RDM/BLU has to kick it old school and bleed to tank. The key is in bleeding as little as possible, and that requires DEF.-PDT,Defense food,a -interrupt set, and support.

I don't know how to explain it any clearer than that. Of course some of you people assume, every time I make a post about something RDM can do, it means I want to take the top spot, it happens when I talk about RDM/DNC, RDM/NIN, RDM/SCH, and most recently RDM/BLU, hell I could pick through this job section and find several topics that a select few have picked to pieces based on cookie cutter myth.

Is it the best, no, is it viable alternative, yes. What is better getting something done when you want to, or waiting around for optimal to fall into your lap. There is enough time sinks in the game already, why create more when you don't have to.

[Icemage]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

First off Aquaviel doesnt provide any -interrupt anymore, it just causes you to cast unhindered a set number of times. The long cast of it and stoneskin combined make it essentially worth less to use. The gear I listed on first post of page 2 gives you -111% which is more than -102%. It also leaves room for 8% fast cast (dbody, and loq ear) as well as -15% damage reduction. (2 ring slots and ASA pants.) Not only that, 1 hit (and yes it will only be one hit) is not going to kill me, and the damage I do take, I can heal the enmity back. Hell if a taru SMN can survive a single hit from an NM than I sure hope a naked RDM can with pro5/cocoon/phalanx and -15% damage reduction. Just how hard do you think these mobs hit. I mean seriously.

Well, it all depends on what you're fighting, now doesn't it?

One normal hit from a monster? Probably not unless it's something really beefy like Tiamat (and if you take RDM/BLU to a Tiamat fight you're certifiably insane). Quite a few things have rather nasty WS that you'd rather not deal with effectively naked, however, even with some measure of protection up.

Ive fought him many a time, I used to make a living off of a 6 man byakko burn team that would kill him in a little over a minute. 4xRDM/SCH, 2xRDM/DRK we used to chainspell drain him to death, while the drk stunned him. After chainspell wore we simply used a few tier 3's until he was dead, while the second /DRK chainspell stunned him. No tank just a fast mana burn.

Yes, because burning SIX chainspells is such an efficient use of resources - and more importantly, time.

I'm sure it works most of the time in that configuration, but it's still lollerskates. Here let me run around in sky for a while to get to Byakko, then kill him once then wait 2 hours before I can do it again (or risk running that stupid gauntlet again). Doable? I suppose. Fun? Probably not. Worthwhile use of time? I can think of better ways to earn money than use up six people's time in that fashion.

No there is convincing me otherwise but all ive seen is repeated crap that ive provided proof against. A RDM can't get that much def and that much -pdt Wrong. The mob will just hit you and interrupt you, Wrong. You will burn way to much mana buffing and debuffing, why would the RDM tank have to buff and debuff if other tanks don't.

Mmm...no. The problem isn't that RDM/BLU doesn't have an OK set of defensive skills and gear. The problem is why you would ever bother setting something like that up. PLD/NINs aren't exactly rare. RDM/NINs aren't rare either. Plus they don't bleed enmity as fast as RDM/BLU does.

Sure, if your goal is to sit there like Mario in a Tanooki Suit and just be unkillable; yeah, probably. With sufficient support, it's more or less true unless you get one-shotted by something. But that's true of any survivable job combination (WHM/NIN for instance). And you don't see WHM/NINs tanking things usually. Because while they're hard to kill, they also need way more support than is worthwhile, especially when other job combinations do that task so much better.

So again, why would you want to use RDM/BLU to tank?

P.S. How do you manage to use Sanguine Blade when you're swapping weapons to a Hermit Wand every 25 seconds?


Icemage

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

No, it is the tank's issue.

If I am pulling hate on Drg while trying to loss hate, which is considered one of the easiest jobs to ditch hate on, with a Pld tank.

It really depends on what you're fighting; if it's squishy enough (and not too dangerous*), a PLD probably won't be able to tank it--the critter will go after DDs (physical or magical DDs both) after a short time.

* If it's dangerous, then the DDs not holding back enough will get squished instead--problem solved!

For something like Abyssea exp alliance, it's inappropriate to call PLDs tanks--their function is actually main /assist, IMO. My last two groups averaged just under 25 seconds per kill (which is shorter than the Provoke recast timer, for comparison)--no PLD or any kind of 'tank' would have the chance to build enmity on every monster at that pace.

* * *

As for using RDM/BLU to 'tank' NMs, I suppose it should work as well as PLD/WAR, roughly. But, I don't think most groups are short on PLDs, so why bother?

By the way, I tanked Faust as PLD75/NIN37--and I mean tanked, not merely"It didn't kill me." Did I needed help from WHM and RDM? Sure. But, it's not an hour long fight--even with the video sped up, I didn't bother to watch the whole RDM/BLU soloing thing--that's just too freaking long.

And, no, I didn't use Utsusemi much--just happened to be on PLD/NIN, that's all. (Besides, who the heck would go to Sky just for one trigger NM? In Sky, PLD/WAR or PLD/BLU is pretty much only good for Faust, which can be tanked by PLD/---.)

[ShepardG]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

First off Aquaviel doesnt provide any -interrupt anymore, it just causes you to cast unhindered a set number of times. The long cast of it and stoneskin combined make it essentially worth less to use. The gear I listed on first post of page 2 gives you -111% which is more than -102%. It also leaves room for 8% fast cast (dbody, and loq ear) as well as -15% damage reduction. (2 ring slots and ASA pants.) Not only that, 1 hit (and yes it will only be one hit) is not going to kill me, and the damage I do take, I can heal the enmity back. Hell if a taru SMN can survive a single hit from an NM than I sure hope a naked RDM can with pro5/cocoon/phalanx and -15% damage reduction. Just how hard do you think these mobs hit. I mean seriously.



Ive fought him many a time, I used to make a living off of a 6 man byakko burn team that would kill him in a little over a minute. 4xRDM/SCH, 2xRDM/DRK we used to chainspell drain him to death, while the drk stunned him. After chainspell wore we simply used a few tier 3's until he was dead, while the second /DRK chainspell stunned him. No tank just a fast mana burn.




No there is convincing me otherwise but all ive seen is repeated crap that ive provided proof against. A RDM can't get that much def and that much -pdt Wrong. The mob will just hit you and interrupt you, Wrong. You will burn way to much mana buffing and debuffing, why would the RDM tank have to buff and debuff if other tanks don't.

The only legit issue that I have agreed with is the fact that a PLD/NIN is better in every way. I have not once said the contrary, of course several would try to put words in my mouth, I also didn't say it was better than what RDM/NIN was, but since RDM/NIN isn't what it was that is a moot point, because it is essentially useless now. As it has no way of generating its own enmity at all, and frankly you need a little more than a TA WS from a big DD to hold hate in the mid to end of the fight.

I also concede that a RDM/BLU will likely take a few dozen more DMG than a PLD per hit, and I also concede the fact that stoneskin doesn't replace a shield. However, I am not arguing against a PLD tank, again the last line of the initial post read it, its for fun and it is situational for nights when a PLD may not be available.


I have refuted Ice Mage's continual incorrect assumptions, several times, I still don't know what BBQ was talking about, either. Wish brought up some good points, but his reasoning behind some things irks me. Vyruu also brought up a valid point, that a tank that can't generate enmity shouldn't be tanking. But considering the fact a RDM/BLU can generate enmity, infact heaping loads more than the damage it will take in, outside of a potential hit during a recast of stoneskin in a -interrupt set, will not be anywhere near the amount generated between when those hits occur.

I am not sure if you have fought many of the "big bad" NM's since abyssea has launched but they are push overs. The old sky rule of 320 skill 110 INT/MND to land enfeebles is redundant, hell I can get that with natural skill and very few items equipped, kings may require a rdm to equip a tabard to land a spell on now. ToAU crap has always been highly resistant if not immune to stuff, but then again very few useful things drop from them anyway. Abyssea NM's are a joke, hell anyone could probably tank them if they spent 200K on the elixer of god.

Endgame is drastically smaller, and less "intense" most of the content can be low manned, a lot can be solo'd, duo'd, trio'd. Nothing we used to require an ally for requires and hell. Hell 6 SMN's damn near solo AV. Situations for the out of norm job mixes crop up all the time, Heck I tanked a level 64 Party today as DNC/WAR, blood tanking on bird because we couldn't find a proper tank, no deaths at all and i got my DNC to lvl 76.

I still have yet to see any constructive criticism other than the age old crap that if it ain't cookie cut it won't work. Is it ideal, no but i never claimed it to be ideal, all I have said since page one is it is workable. If you can get a PLD at your beck and call, by all means do so, if you can not, then there are plenty of alternatives, SAM,MNK,DRK,DNC all have the ability to tank to a degree, as does RDM/BLU. Those jobs have the luxury of getting shadows, where RDM/BLU has to kick it old school and bleed to tank. The key is in bleeding as little as possible, and that requires DEF.-PDT,Defense food,a -interrupt set, and support.

I don't know how to explain it any clearer than that. Of course some of you people assume, every time I make a post about something RDM can do, it means I want to take the top spot, it happens when I talk about RDM/DNC, RDM/NIN, RDM/SCH, and most recently RDM/BLU, hell I could pick through this job section and find several topics that a select few have picked to pieces based on cookie cutter myth.

Is it the best, no, is it viable alternative, yes. What is better getting something done when you want to, or waiting around for optimal to fall into your lap. There is enough time sinks in the game already, why create more when you don't have to.

Mageo mageo mageo... I've been coming to these boards for 2-3 years now i guess, and I've seen these threads a few times. I'm not gonna get into this with you, except to say.

DO IT.

Find some folks that trust you enough to do these things and record it, or screen shot it a bunch or do something other than propose an idea like this, on a forum that is known for having newer players, because some of them might actually think this is a common, viable method and come to find out that nobody uses it, because it takes umpteen countless hours to figure out casts and gear swaps and required support and most people don't want to kill HNM's (be it abyssea, or Nidhogg) for 30+ minutes.

Your right though, this is a valid job combination. There are just better options to chose from. If you want to play on RDM/BLU and you have some folks that are willing/curious to help you do so, more power too you, but honestly, most people want to win at things. Football coaches don't randomly say "hmmm...think i'll start the 3rd string QB today..."

I understand you want to be outside the box, you want to maximize our roll as "jack of all trades" to it's fullest potential, but unfortunatley, the game has been around long enough that if you don't have a regular decent pld/nin in your event LS, then you probably aren't doing many events.

In theory this should work out, i've read your numbers, they all look really good, but unless you have some magic hax that allows all these different gears to be on at teh same time, then It just isn't a valid theory i'm affraid.

I'll state this on the spell interupt thing:

You have 3 main stages of spell casting> pre, mid, after

Swap fiends (like myself) are usually blinking so much that we look like were not even there half the time, but hey, if you want the best that's what it's about, so let's look at the 3 stages a bit closer...

pre, actual gear before you start the spell so your spell gets full advantage of the traits on gear, i.e. Haste, Fastcast, Latent activation gear (for blm's and whm's but for some other things aswell)

Mid, Gear with the potency on it, such as Skill gear (enfeebling, elemental, conserve MP, Enmity, spell interuption rate down, Stone gorget (which, does not have -7 enmity, and is the best stoneskin piece in the game), Elemental Staves, Evasion. This gear has to go on before the spell procs, which varies due to cast time, server lag, etc.

After, What you finish casting in, having no actual effect on the spell, but putting you back into specific gear based on which ever situation your in, i.e. "I'm wearing all my PDT gear" or "I'm wearing my MDT gear" or "I'm wearing all my haste/acc gear, so i hit the mob, to generate TP" or "i'm wearing my evasion gear now, because fuck i don't want to get it"

So if you can cap out Haste/fastcast for each spell, and then get 102% spell interupt rate down, while maintaining your potency (for stoneskin, enfeebles, etc.) AND maintain your PDT set at cap, AND hold your TP for weapon skills, AND actually hit the mob for more than 0, AND not lose hate to someone curing you, buffing you, singing you, rolling you, AND allow the folks your with to DEAL DMG to the mob, because the longer that guy is up and alive, the longer he has to kill everyone there, THEN, THEN! I'll start bringing RDM/BLU to events, that can be low manned, when we don't need a tank.

Until then i'll keep my pld/nin to tank Glavoid, LaCovie, Minacaocao, Kulkanan, Briareus, Excentric Eve, ANY of the new mobs that drop the items needed for the +2 versions of AF3, Any Tier 3+ VNM, etc.

You definetly can sub blu mage while on rdm though. There are just better options out there which you should have if you have RDM level to 85.

(alot of those options involve not straight tanking the god damn mob in the first place! i'm mean your a red fucking mage for god sakes, DOT kite some thing, or pin-nuke something. with atma's were walking MP tanks that don't ever stop. ((I mean for gods sakes, if you have d. chap, some refresh body, and your rank 10 windurst, and level 83, you get a 13 tick refresh BY YOUR SELF!)))

Edit: And the "God drink" your speaking about is 2 MILLION cruor, not 200k ><

[Mog]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but didn't RDM spells take a big hit in enmity decrease in one of the recent updates? Was either volatile or cumulative enmity, I forget.

Aside from that uhm, for anything that hits like a truck, you would not want to tank with RDM/BLU. While yeah, you could probably cure yourself for hate, cast stoneskin aquaveil blink etc etc etc. But your healer is going to run out of mp and probably get pretty high on the hate list, causing you to lose hate. Is this the mage's fault? Of course not. This also doesn't mention the fact that you lose hate every time the mob takes a chunk out of your life. Combine these two scenerio's and you've got a pissed off NM that will go after someone else and leave the mage's mp dry.

For anything worthwhile to tank, I'll stick with pld/nin. I have a shadows, shield, reprisal, sentinel, rampart, flash, phalanx, cures. Not only can I get hate, but I'll more likely keep it.

But for something that doesn't hit that hard, go for it. It sounds like a pretty solid combo.

[Raydeus]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Yeah, from what I've read it was hate generation rather than damage mitigation what killed RDM Endgame tanking for the most part. On things RDMs were already tanking that is, not the big mobs with an Insta-Pwn button.

For lower level stuff and Campaign I've yet to notice any real difference except for Haxxor Blade, I mean Atonement.

[Vyuru]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Also, last night's Abyssea party brought something to mind. All of these spells:

Sheepsong, Sopoforic, Blank Gaze, MP Drainkiss, Stinking Gas, Geist Wall, Jettuara

Are roughly melee range spells and take some time to cast for the most part. Now granted, you guys get fast cast, but still, the mob moves out of range or starts running around, how're you getting back hate?

[MrMageo]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Ok so since this has gone on the path of ignorance, and falsities let me just cover the issues again.

Damage Reduction.

BBQ- A RDM can only tank something that tickles a PLD

False, as I am still assuming you mean a blood tank PLD, since this is the topic of the thread, hence "the new RDM tank bleeds blood"

I don't think anyone other than IceMage has tried to debate the fact a RDM can't get over 700DEF and nearly -50% DMG reduction (at night it caps in day it i only 46%)

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/red...s-blood-2.html

First post is a list of a gear set with over 700DEF and -46/-52% -PDT

Recast

Icemage - "What the heck are you fighting that's worth bothering with that's not going to smack the bejesus out of you and interrupt your Stoneskin casting"

the second set provided in the above link provides a wonderful little -interrupt set, which means you can cast without issue.

Icemage- "Where are you finding -102% without sacrificing some of the other gear you've been going on and on about in the first post? Or heck, if you're casting Aquaveil for 25%, even 77% is a stretch in "tanking" gear."

Again Aquaviel does not reduce inerrupt anymore, and yes while you might take a hit, and likely will if you felt the need to use -interrupt gear. You still have room for 8% fast cast and -15% PDT while being uninterrupted.

Enmity

Wish - At 1000HP, to lose 1280 CE requires taking about 712 points of damage.

While true with my DEF and -PDT sets, a mob will have to hit RDM for over 1700 DMG in a single hit, or hit a RDM for over 1400DMG after my SS drops after cycle 2 to erase it. I have yet to see a mob with melee hits on any job over 1K. RDM/BLU can maintain a constant supply of enmity. Unless there is magical mobs out there ive never fought that do hit in excess of 1.4K DMG.

MP
Wish - Loss of about 486 MP in ONE cycle.

If you assume that a RD has to buff himself and debuff the mob and use hate spells, and cure themselves then sure. But I seem to remember doing all that stuff for PLD and NIN tanks, so why is it that another RDM can't do that for a RDM tank? Outside of SS/Phalanx, maybe Refresh II, all other buffs and debuffs should be provided by other sources. It certainly fits into your position to make it sound so bad, but in reality me spending maybe 105 MP on personal buffs (2 of which last over 7 minutes) is a drop in the bucket. Essentially MP cost is stoneskin every 12-20 seconds, a cure here and there should you revert to -interrupt set, and 105 MP for blu spells every 12-15 seconds (until @ aprox 5K CE/5K VE where you then cycle only a few spells with high VE and high CE ex. Jettuara.)

PLD/NIN is better

- pretty well everyone, incuding myself

No shit.

Why not get a PLD

Randoms suck and not every LS has 40 members who are ready to do things at a drop of a hat.



Am i missing anything or is the misinformation squad done for now? Also

Yes, because burning SIX chainspells is such an efficient use of resources - and more importantly, time.

I'm sure it works most of the time in that configuration, but it's still lollerskates. Here let me run around in sky for a while to get to Byakko, then kill him once then wait 2 hours before I can do it again (or risk running that stupid gauntlet again). Doable? I suppose. Fun? Probably not. Worthwhile use of time? I can think of better ways to earn money than use up six people's time in that fashion.

This made me LOL. what is the fastest you made a few hundred K to a few million? If you seriously think a 1-2 minute fight at the cost of a seldom used 2hour (outside of solo's/fun/chainstun) is a waste of time and not worth it to anyone then I am at a loss. But then again Aquaviel's -25% interrupt is cool shit too. Seriously man, how many other ways can you make that much money/time. Get back to me because Id really love to know now that kitty pants are on their last legs with the sexiness that is melee DD AFv3 pants.

[Icemage]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Well if you're THAT dead-set on being "right" then by all means, go do it and post some video to show us why we're wrong and why we should recognize how "awesome" RDM/BLU is.

Moral of the story: Numbers don't mean squat if you can't pull it all together consistently in actual gameplay.

I think RDM/BLU is a really strong solo job, particularly against enemies at or below your level. When you're solo you don't have to worry about pulling hate, and Coccoon alone is a worthwhile spell even when the rest of the Blue Magic you could set doesn't do much other than maybe give you a couple of side effect job traits and stat points.

But as a tank? I'm still waiting (3rd time I've mentioned this) for your explanation of what situation you would actually use this combination in, and why you would use it over every other particular job combination.


Icemage

[ShepardG]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

But as a tank? I'm still waiting (3rd time I've mentioned this) for your explanation of what situation you would actually use this combination in, and why you would use it over every other particular job combination.

This, a thousand times this.

Mageo, there are better options depending on who's with you, and what thing your trying to kill.

RDM/BLU does in deed have some sick defense, but, what are you fighting that you need that sort of defense? If your talking about forced pop NM's in Abyssea, or Big NM's in Abyssea (minacoca, fistule, celubre, antlion NM, etc.) your better off DoT/Kiting them or just /nin and bouncing hate with nukes/cures etc.

I mean, your gonna engage to these mobs in your -pdt set you had listed, and your tav. taco, and your going to wiff, wiff, wiff, even with 8/8 sword merits.

What me and Icemage are trying to say isn't that you couldn't, technically, do some of the lower abyssea mobs (mangy tailed marvin, Tier 2 VNM's, etc.) but that, your not doing it the fastest, safest, least rescource intensive way possible. It's just not a worth while combo, and I don't see it going that way either

If you only have 6 people and no one has PLD, and you guys want to do kulkankulan (peiste NM in konsctat aby) you ,on rdm/blu, are going to get destroyed, unless you pull him up the hill and bounce hate, kite him through/around the trees.
At that point, being /blu gives you nothing worthwhile, because he shouldn't be hitting you either way. You'd be better off /sch

[WishMaster3K]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

ShepardG is my hero.