Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

[cidbahamut]

Well it finally happened. I hit that magic level where I have to do another overhaul of my macros.
RDM 51.

The conundrum I now face is how to set up my macros to incorporate elemental staves for my spellcasting while retaining the ability to switch into melee mode should the need arise(or if I'm just soloing).

The current plan is to take my current macro book and make a copy of it and basically keep two books updated. One for when I have a sword in hand(no elemental staff swaps), and another for the backline(elemental staff swaps included). I'd probably have a macro to toggle between the two books as well.

It has left me somewhat worried though. I hear elemental staves are of paramount importance for landing spells after a certain point, so would I actually be shooting myself in the foot by even bothering to keep a macro book that doesn't use them?

Perhaps I'm better off just keeping one set of macros and resigning myself to never being able to perform a weaponskill? No, that doesn't make sense. It just detracts from my flexibility. Argh! This is gonna drive me up a wall for days until I sort it all out.

What have you found is a workable setup for balancing back-line macros with front-line ones?
More importantly, what have you found that doesn't work? I think that'd actually be more telling.

[Ketaru]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

With so many macro books at our disposal compared to years ago, I just copied my RDM macros and pasted them and made changes accordingly. One set switches weapons, and one set doesn't (among other things like how I don't even bother carrying some things like Errant while I'm soloing)

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

Well when soloing on rdm, you sometimes really need to land that para, slow, etc. I had a set that was set up for melee but I had a line of macros within that book set up with staves in them. I would try without but if it didn't stick, and I needed it too, then I would sacrifice my TP and use the macros with my staves in them.

[ShepardG]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

spellcast?

[cidbahamut]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

spellcast?

No.

[Taskmage]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

The current plan is to take my current macro book and make a copy of it and basically keep two books updated. One for when I have a sword in hand(no elemental staff swaps), and another for the backline(elemental staff swaps included). I'd probably have a macro to toggle between the two books as well.

This is what I did. With sets, not books though, and I just ctrl+up and down to switch between. I wouldn't worry about intermingling your staves with your meleeing. Generally if your target is weak enough for you to do something meaningful with your sword, it's weak enough you can land spells without a staff. Not that you would really miss out on using fast blade or opening fusion every few mobs.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

More importantly, what have you found that doesn't work?

What didn't work? A single set of macros.

Generally speaking, if something really needs to be enfeebled, and a RDM really need the staves to enfeeble them, then the RDM probably has no business melee'ing that critter to begin with.

* * *

A trick someone on this site taught me: If a RDM doesn't want to make two version of enfeeble macros (one set with staves, one without), then he can put the elemental staves in the Bazaar for maximum price.

Even with that trick, however, melee gear and mage gear are are sufficiently different that one would usually want to do a fair amount of gear swapping when switching from melee swing mode to cast mode, and vice versa.

[Taskmage]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

Mog satchel works great for that too, if you have one. It's also the only way I know of to lock non-bazaarable ex gear out of a macro situationally. For example, my int-based debuffs and nukes try to swap in both Master Caster's Bracelets and Yigit Gages. If MCB's latent is active I take them out and satchel the gages. Non-conquest areas vice versa.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

Well for the time being I've simply made a copy of my current macro book, added elemental staves to one, and a toggle to both books. This'll hold me over until I figure out what else I need to do to my setup.

[ShepardG]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

are you just opposed to using windower, or just don't want to use spellcast cause you don't understand it?

Not being a tool or nuthing, I'm just curious. Please don't flame people(aka, me) that use it, I'm just wondering why.

Also Aside from having the dual-macro books, there isn't too much else you can do, what taskmage said about the bazzar trick works also.

The reason I suggested Spellcast

My RDM .xml is setup so that when ever I "engage" the mob, it automatically switches to my joyeuse/genbu's, or if /nin, Blau/Joy. I have it setup to lock my Main,Sub, and Ranged weapon when my TP get's over 18 (or round about's 3 swings).

Also I have a macro that looks like this "/ma "Meteor" <me> and whenever I "cast" that macro, it will automatically put up whichever appropriate En-spell for the day. Additionally I have "/ma "Meteor II" <me> which will do the appropriate En-spell II, and also swap in my enhancing magic gear.

Once i'm over 18TP I can still cast spells normally, and all my armor will still swap out (I.E. Mnd Build for enfeebles, Int build for Nukes) I just won't have the potency of a Elemental Staff when I'm swashbuckling. Also when I dis-engage, it will leave my sword equiped, incase I still wanted to keep my TP for a possible death blossom to start the next fight. I could explain my convert, potency, Macc builds but you were really just wondering about the staff situation.

Anyway, if your interested in learning about it (it's a great foot in the door to learning .xml coding, which is much more useful in RL than FFxi ^^) I'd be more than happy to help get you or anyone started. ^^

[cidbahamut]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

XML isn't terribly difficult stuff compared to some stuff I've had to code, it's more that I'm opposed to using Windower.
I consider Windower cheating, but I like the folks here enough that I'll check that baggage at the door.

[ShepardG]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

fair enough ^^

[Karinya]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

This is what I did. With sets, not books though, and I just ctrl+up and down to switch between. I wouldn't worry about intermingling your staves with your meleeing. Generally if your target is weak enough for you to do something meaningful with your sword, it's weak enough you can land spells without a staff.

Agreed. I end up using the melee set mostly for Campaign, sometimes Besieged, occasionally FoV, camping some NMs, latent weapons (you have to get TP while using them in order to accumulate points, so you'll definitely want a no-staff-swapping gear set for that) and some other stuff on non-exp-level mobs.

The higher the level of the mob, the more you are likely to need staffs; also, the higher the level of the mob, the more people you are likely to have with you to fight it effectively, and therefore, the more likely that one or several of them will be MUCH better at melee than you are, to the point that your contribution via melee damage is no longer meaningful. These factors combine to make the sword practically useless in most exp and HNM situations (except for the occasional Spirits Within charged up with TP gained on weaker mobs, opo necklace/sleep potions, etc.; you'll at least want a sword and enough skill to perform Spirits Within for those situations, if you plan to be in them).


Recently, though, I have been experimenting with intermingling staffs with meleeing: shortly after using a WS, you can't lose much TP from swapping because you don't have much TP to lose, so you have a window of opportunity to take advantage of staffs' boost to spells relatively cheaply. This synergizes nicely with Death Blossom. Specifically, I campaign as RDM/SCH, and use a combination of Dark Arts, staff swapping, and DB to land reasonably effective nukes, Drain, and Aspir after a WS -- since Campaign mobs are low level enough that RDM don't have a lot of trouble hitting them, but still have enough HP that it can be useful to have the extra firepower.

Activate whatever buffs are useful in the situation
Melee until 100% TP
Activate Dark Arts (if not already active)
Death Blossom
Activate Parsimony (if charge available)
*Tier III nuke
*Drain (if appropriate)
*Aspir
Switch back to melee gear and repeat

(spells marked with * use staff swapping in addition to other spell-appropriate gear). It seems to work pretty well, packing a little more punch than straight melee without costing much net MP over the long term. Even though there might not be many resist issues on Campaign mobs anyway, the damage bonus from staffs on a nuke is useful if you're not paying too much for it -- and Aspir always has resist issues, in my experience.

Not that you would really miss out on using fast blade or opening fusion every few mobs.

True, but your avatar tells me you know there's more to RDM melee than that. He might as well start out as he means to go on (depending, of course, on what activities other than exp parties he regularly participates in).

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

These factors combine to make the sword practically useless in most exp and HNM situations (except for the occasional Spirits Within charged up with TP gained on weaker mobs, opo necklace/sleep potions, etc.

Wouldn't Death Blossom be more useful? I'm sure the tanks would appreciate it, if the RDM can land a fully merited (i.e. full duration) Slow/Para II on, say Byakko. (Not that I have either at max merit.)

[Taskmage]

Re: Swords, macros, and the onslaught of elemental staves

It can be. I like to hit Proto-Omega with it when he drops from two legs to four to help the blms out, since I can get TP reasonably safely while tanking the two leg form. In Nyzul it's nice to be able to use a daedalus wing for a blossom before dropping back to the back line, to give you a glimmer of hope of landing decent debuffs on those horribly resistant bosses. The same is probably true for sky if you pre-gain your TP on pots, but haven't played with it much up there.