New to RDM

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New to RDM

The potential to be a combat caster is there it just takes a lot of time to make it work. Which is why most people give up or dont try it at all.

No, its because RDM is so involved with casting in various situations that melee is not worth the time or effort. Not only that, but to be competent at both melee, casting and be ready for any situation means maxing out your personal inventory.

Most RDMs that do try to melee just slap on a Scorpion Harness, a Wahlra Turban and think that's all they need to do. If that were all, then melees wouldn't be working nearly as hard as they do on gear.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: New to RDM

I love my taru rdm. I've lvled rdms of all the races.........except Galka. (Though hubby did Galka and he didn't like it but now he has a taru rdm. ^^) Out of all the ones I lvled I have to say that I really enjoyed Elvaan the most. Taru would be second.

/wave Mr.Mageo

[Dyft]

Re: New to RDM

Most RDMs that do try to melee just slap on a Scorpion Harness, a Wahlra Turban and think that's all they need to do. If that were all, then melees wouldn't be working nearly as hard as they do on gear.

Well on the bright side if its something I wanted to piddle with ive got a set of woodsmans rings, life belt, and a few other +acc items (My main job is Blu :D
) But on that note, is why my main guy is a Blu now, I can melee and I dont get yelled at it, plus with my pocket RDM I still have perma refresh if i want /lol

To MrMagoo,

I dident stop playing my wanna be melee Rdm because of difficulties with equip, I did it because it dident matter if i was at 100% mp and all my enfeebles were on, if i clicked attack..... most partys would cuss me out. That I could never figure out, and im talking with a WHM (whos got plenty of mana) in the party for healing. And god forbid I ever cast an enspell, then it was the cussing of wasted mana from the parties.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New to RDM

RDM is saddled with the stereotype that the moment they draw their swords, they'll forget completely about casting.

Of course, this stereotype isn't without a basis, practically 95% of RDMs do forget about their other duties the moment they click Attack, despite many claims they do maintain their duties.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: New to RDM

Of course, this stereotype isn't without a basis, practically 95% of RDMs do forget about their other duties the moment they click Attack, despite many claims they do maintain their duties.

100% true. It takes a very rare breed to be a GOOD melee rdm. I'm not too proud to say that I am NOT one of them. I've leveled multiple rdm's and I've tried the melee path. In fact, I INSISTED that it can be done. After having my nose rubbed in my suckage, I decided to try it the way they suggested.....backline. It worked out MUCH better for the efficiency of my party. I gained more exp and there were less deaths because things ran smoother. So I learned my place, and now I stay there. I love to solo on my rdms but I won't melee in a party/ally unless its something like farming/skilling up/etc.

Some people just can't melee and be a good rdm. They don't have the skill and it takes a mature person to be able to admit that. (Not patting myself on the back, just stating the truth.) You are a very busy person with refreshes, hastes, enfeebles, sleeps (if necessary), and curing that adding melee'ing and worrying about skillchaining to the mix is a lot to ask of anyone. The percentage is so small of people that can handle it (and I think Kitten is being generous with his %) that most people don't want rdms to melee because they are most likely going to suck at it. Now add on top of the fact that "my mage duties are going to suffer", the fact that they won't be properly geared to melee and its just a lose/lose situation and THAT is why you are running into opposition.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New to RDM

Well, accuracy in FFXI caps at 95% in FFXI, TGM, so I was just saying

Plus we know someone is going to try to tell us otherwise, so that 5% SE won't let us have is bound to make someone feel better.

[Raydeus]

Re: New to RDM

That's not true, any RDM who even knows how to solo mobs EM-VT decently will have more than enough skill to handle casting while meleeing.

The problem isn't that RDMs forget about casting while they are attacking, but more that with casting times, targetting, and gear swaps with the incredibly limited amount macro lines we have there's simply no way to squeeze it all in while fighting in real time.

And if you add doing all that every fight in a 2-5 hours party you can see how bad it can get. Simple as that.

Which is why I would simply remain backline/support even if they actually did a good job at enhancing RDM melee. I'd rather use that for soloing and missions/quests instead.



PS > In short, it can't be done, but we simply don't have the interface tools to perform at full capacity. Which is why most RDM will simply stop stressing themselves for such lackluster dmg.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: New to RDM

That's not true, any RDM who even knows how to solo mobs EM-VT decently will have more than enough skill to handle casting while meleeing.

The problem isn't that RDMs forget about casting while they are attacking, but more that with casting times, targetting, and gear swaps with the incredibly limited amount macro lines we have there's simply no way to squeeze it all in while fighting in real time.

And if you add doing all that every fight in a 2-5 hours party you can see how bad it can get. Simple as that.

Which is why I would simply remain backline/support even if they actually did a good job at enhancing RDM melee. I'd rather use that for soloing and missions/quests instead.



PS > In short, it can't be done, but we simply don't have the interface tools to perform at full capacity. Which is why most RDM will simply stop stressing themselves for such lackluster dmg.

Ray, you totally confuse me. The first sentence is "NAH UH WE CAN TOO MELEE!" and then the rest of it is "NOPE WE CAN'T". LOL In the games current setup, there is a very small percentage of rdms that can melee WELL and also do other rdm duties WELL, which is what I said and what you are saying.......I think.

[Raydeus]

Re: New to RDM

Not really, my point was that "RDMs forget about casting duties the moment they start attacking" is completely false.

There's a difference between forgetting about it and simply being unable to keep up due to system/interface limitations.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: New to RDM

Not really, my point was that "RDMs forget about casting duties the moment they start attacking" is completely false.

There's a difference between forgetting about it and simply being unable to keep up due to system/interface limitations.

I know its a combination of both for some. I did the melee route for 75 levels (looooooong levels) and trying to pay attention to my tp, skillchaining, watching what debuffs fell, keeping the refresh chain going, etc was a royal pain in the ass. More often than not, the casting side lost out to the melee side and the party suffered. It's normal because melee is fun! Being able to sc with others is even more fun! But when it is interfering with the flow of the party and the party is now less efficient, its just not fair to others in the party to keep doing it. Add to that the fact of the equipment argument and its a valid point when someone decides that they don't want a melee rdm in their party. How I got around it was by making parties with people that knew me and didn't mind, when I could. I always made sure that every single person in the party knew I was going to be a melee rdm and that meant that sometimes I'd be late with refresh or miss a debuff going down. As long as everyone was ok with that, then and only then would I melee.

[Sylvane]

Re: New to RDM

I trioed on colibri with a rdm/dnc with a kraken club, and we were bringing in close to 10k an hour, but colibri aren't really a test of anyone's prowess, nor do many people have a Kclub sitting around. Still, under certain low man circumstances it's pretty fun to see a rdm melee.

[Mhurron]

Re: New to RDM

I trioed on colibri with a rdm/dnc with a kraken club, and we were bringing in close to 10k an hour, but colibri aren't really a test of anyone's prowess, nor do many people have a Kclub sitting around. Still, under certain low man circumstances it's pretty fun to see a rdm melee.

A low man group is where RDM melee for partying makes a lot of sense. A duo/trio however works very different from a 6 player EXP or what is currently a Merit party. Half the number of players is a significant reduction in the amount of support and healing that has to occur and your targets are of lower difficulty compared to your level and/or the expected speed is lower then full EXP/Merit parties.

my point was that "RDMs forget about casting duties the moment they start attacking" is completely false.

The very few times I have had the displeasure to be in a party with a meleeing RDM, they very literally did not cast a thing except haste, refresh and an enspell on themselves. It was no interface limit. A great deal of melee RDM play like they were half-assing MNK.

They also seem to think they're a top notch DD while they do it, but that's really best left for another thread.

[MrMageo]

Re: New to RDM

BBQ brings up some good points.

1. Gear

Most RDM's do try and melee with a meh set of equips. I could make a very long list of stuff you can use but what I used is pretty freaking good in terms of RDM possibilities atm.

Blau/Joyeuse/-/Tiphia Sting
W.Turban/PCC/Suppa/Hollow
SH+1/Dusk+1/Snipers+1/Fencers(or Raja's if some dumbass likes to kill latent)
Foragers/Vbelt/Phaluwan/Dusk+1

+46ACC
+21 ATK
+18 Haste
Bream Sushi+1
411.75ACC

Can hit all mobs in ToAU (on some mamool probably best to drop Wturban for Ohat)

2. Mental focus

Another big issue is peoples ability to focus. It seems to disappear when swords are swinging.

3. Casting Load

Some people when they melee don't know what the casting load should be. It should consist of an even haste split, refresh on the backline mage (if not rdm) and full time casting of dia. Rest of MP is used to help heal, and handle links. This should have you burning about 900 MP every 8-9 minutes that includes 450 MP from refresh and your initial bar (450+450 = 900). I had about 750 MP and would reach convert with 100-200 MP left pretty consistently.

It takes a lot of mental focus and good macros I suggest using the P1 P2 etc setups for things like haste, refresh and cure. and a <me> line for self buffs. You shouldnt ever have to open your spell menu.

4. Gear.
I disagree with BBQ on this, when you melee you take on a different role. In meripo's AF and merits are enough to land anything worth while on mobs. The small degrees of +MND to things like slow and para are minor in meripo's. In endgame the more RDMs there are the less each will end up doing. Melee here is touh, I personally perfer lots of +ACC and +enspells but that is just me. Here again if you go to melee gear accordingly you wint need all your mage stuff because there should be other RDM's focusing on that.

/wave TGM

[Ziero]

Re: New to RDM

If you're coming to Red Mage just to main heal, you insult the job. I mean, that's nothing you can't do just as well, if not better on your Blue Mage.

Seriously, just try going BLU/WHM (or "cyan mage," if you will) and healing your party crazy. It's an abysmally underutilized part of the job, anyway.

Also, ignoring all forms of Refresh and MP modifiers gained from equipped gear/spells, Red Mages and Blue Mages are actually equal in terms of MP.

Any Red Mage in the party that isn't Refreshing you, especially if you're freaking healing the party, is him/herself a much bigger insult to the job than your preconception of it, anyway.

Rdm heals far, far, FAR more efficiantely then Blu/Whm ever could. And while the Rdm really isn't losing anything by sitting back and casting cures, buffs and debuffs, the Blu is sacrificing it's highly powerful offensive skills.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New to RDM

or Raja's if some dumbass likes to kill latent

Had a BRD that insisted on me not healing her past yellow because she wanted that reduced song casting time effect.

So I didn't.

She sure did die a lot. But hey, I didn't want to ruin her -song casting.

Rajas is going to give you more than that silly HP latent ring anyway.

Also, your 4th point is confusing since it shares the same title as point #1. At any rate when you come to a burn PT as a RDM, whether you're invited to melee or not, it remains expected of you that you perform the role of a RDM.

Just because I stop DDing as a COR and start pulling in some meritpo PT doesn't mean I stop buffing people, but just look at all the BRDs and CORs that forget that because they're "too busy" pulling.

Your function in PT might slightly change, but your defining role never does.