Primary Healer

[Divinespear]

So I want to be a primary healer and currently have whm to 14 and blm to 8 but I was thinking, so I don't blow through all my mana too fast when soloing it'd be better to go whm/rdm.

Then I started looking into it and it seems that RDM are more popular for groups than WHM are so I was thinking of going RDM/WHM.

Then I saw that because RDM gets most of the spells that WHM do just a few levels lator that it'd be better to go RDM/BLM. But as far as I can tell RDM/BLM is more of an enfeebler and I want to be a healer.

So basically which combination of mages should I go for healing?

PS my highest job is 18MNK so I don't have access to advanced jobs yet.

[Armando]

Re: Primary Healer

Both subs can heal. Which sub you should use depends on the situation and level.

/WHM gives you status cures, AoE Barspells, Protectga/Shellga (lower tiers, naturally), Curaga, and Erase.
/BLM gives elemental DoTs, Drain, Aspir, Sleepga, and Conserve MP.

There are cases where you don't need /WHM's abilities at all, and there are other cases where it's critical that you have them.

PS RDM is only more popular than WHM as a healer past 41.

[Evion]

Re: Primary Healer

I have everything you need right here:

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/gen...subjob-tp.html

[Ameroth]

Re: Primary Healer

RDM are more popular for groups than WHM are so I was thinking of going RDM/WHM

More popular maybe, but not able to fully replace a WHM altogether. It's hard to argue against cure V's effectiveness. However, WHM could use a few more tools to push it back up to par with RDM I think.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Primary Healer

For the majority of situations, /BLM is going to play a distant third to /WHM and /SCH for healer subs. And to be perfectly honest, I don't trust PTs that have RDM/BLMs for healers. A RDM/BLM is a support healer and nothing more as curing is really all its able to do for allies.

Also, while RDM/WHM may be a more popular healer, these days its just because people haven't learned how effective WHM/SCH and SCH/RDM are at healing, actually moreso than RDM. RDM just has Haste, Convert and Refresh in thier favor, they aren't nearly as specialized in healing duties as WHM or SCH.

RDM is capable of doing a lot more than being a healer, the problem is that if you party as a RDM these days, a healer is all you'll ever be if you want to progress quickly and that will often come at the expense of your Enfeebling, Dark and Elmental magic skill. This severely limits RDM's potential and its why I'm wary of returning to the job until I have all my skills capped through SCH. To me, playing RDM purely as a healer is a waste of potential

Going for WHM will allow you to be specialized in healing, but yes, the road to 75 will be slower due to the overwhelming popularity of RDM to Haste and Refresh junkies. PTs have learned to be more self-sufficient in this expansion, particularly with the introduction of DNC and SCH. You don't need Haste and Refresh to have good PTs, it just helps. If you still want to be a WHM, I'm sure you can find friends to help you level it. Hell, I know there are plenty of RDMs who would love to give a WHM the reigns of "main healer" anyway.

SCH is also very specialized in healing as well as nuking, to boot. They don't start off as strongly as WHM or RDM do for healing, particulary because they don't have Cure III until level 30, but once you get past those growing pains SCH becomes a very viable healer, especially at 40+ after you have Regen II and Accession in your corner.

DNC is another healer job, but the mechanics are really different as they have no MP and instead use TP to cure. This is great in some ways since you get to enjoy melee combat and be able to heal allies as well. They aren't as extensive a healer as WHM, SCH or RDM, but they are quite fun to play.

When you get to 30, unlock SCH and DNC and give them a spin before you decide which healer job you'd like to move forward with.

At any rate, go with the job that feels best to you, don't just pick up RDM because its popular, picking a job just because its more popular with players is often the path to misery in FFXI.

[Divinespear]

Re: Primary Healer

Thanks to the replies

I have everything you need right here:

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/gen...subjob-tp.html

To Evion,
Please stop blanket posting this. I saw it the first time you replied to one of my questions and the topics within that post actually are the source for my new questions so it really didn't help.

Thanks,

[The Mauva Syndicate]

Re: Primary Healer

I flat out refuse to main Heal as RDM. And if someone asks me they usually get a somewhat sniffy reply about /seacom, since mine clearly indicates {Main Heal} {No, Thanks}.

A RDM is a Debuffer/Buffer FIRST and a backup healer/everything else second. If the party is trying to get you to do both as RDM they need to realize they are not in a Merit Party and adapt to the level they are at. Get a WHM or a SCH to main heal, and let RDM do it's job - which nobody does better BTW.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Primary Healer

I don't trust PTs that have RDM/BLMs for healers.

Against mobs that have no nasty status effects, I'd rather sub BLM for the extra MP I'm going to get out of it, which, in parties where my debuffs are necessary in addition to cures/hastes, I'd rather have the extra MP and Aspir/Drain capabilities. It's not so horrible to use a RDM/BLM to main heal at some levels (beetles come to mind) for that very reason. The beetles don't do anything crazy that requires -na, and you can Aspir them. Nowadays, in merit parties, I like to sub WHM for the DS + Convert, but even that isn't really necessary in a good party.

I haven't tried RDM/SCH yet, though it's probably really interesting.

I personally never liked main healing as a RDM, but now I'd kind of like to go back again with what I know now (compared to being a newb RDM) and try it at some levels with different subs, just to see what works better.

If you truly love healing, become a WHM. Even past 50 I didn't have a lot of trouble getting parties, and for the most part, you should be able to maintain your MP pretty well even without a Refresher. I loved leveling WHM. Any of the three subs for WHM (BLM, SMN, SCH) are acceptable. Many will prefer that you use /SCH, but you won't be considered gimp if you don't use it.

If you want to have nuking capabilities as well as healing, SCH is for you. Back when I started the game, I thought that was what RDM was all about, but RDM is really a poor nuker compared to BLMs, which was quite disappointing to me, but with the advent of SCH, you can be healer some of the time and nuker some of the time, which appeals to many who don't want to be fulltime either.

Not sure if I've really answered your question, but those are my thoughts at least.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Primary Healer

Against mobs that have no nasty status effects, I'd rather sub BLM for the extra MP I'm going to get out of it, which, in parties where my debuffs are necessary in addition to cures/hastes, I'd rather have the extra MP and Aspir/Drain capabilities. It's not so horrible to use a RDM/BLM to main heal at some levels (beetles come to mind) for that very reason. The beetles don't do anything crazy that requires -na, and you can Aspir them. Nowadays, in merit parties, I like to sub WHM for the DS + Convert, but even that isn't really necessary in a good party.

Beetles do Spoil (STR down, something all melee hate as much as Attack Down), I'd much rather have a WHM or SCH for Erase, which is available to them around the levels you do beetles.

At any rate, /BLM's MP isn't that dramatic of an addition to your manapool.

/BLM does add more enfeeling options to the plate, but nothing to main healer duties.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Primary Healer

While it's true that beetles do the STR down, the levels you fight them, if you're main healing on RDM you won't have Erase subbed yet anyway.

I've always preferred /BLM due to Drain and Aspir, which is probably why I never partied without a WHM so I could get away with it. I don't think that using BLM sub gimps you as a healer too much, though. You just have to know when to use it and when not to, which is really rather difficult, especially on your first level through.

[Armando]

Re: Primary Healer

STR Down is such a negligible stat effect (at least from Beetles, maybe there's some crazy mission or expansion mob that can inflict a retarded -30 STR or some shit) that I tell WHMs not to bother Erasing mine.

At any rate, /BLM's MP isn't that dramatic of an addition to your manapool.

Conserve MP saves about 7% MP and against Beetles, Aspir would also come into play. I think that would be a fair trade-off for Erase if it's a PLD tank (NIN would need Hi-Freq Field erased.)

EDIT: Are there even any Beetle camps at 64+?

[Aksannyi]

Re: Primary Healer

Still, on RDM, you don't get Erase until 64. At that point, the last beetle you've even touched was 15+ levels ago.

[Evion]

Re: Primary Healer

To Divinespear,

Please stop blanket posting noob question threads that can easily and quickly be answered by looking. I saw your thread the first time and figured you needed to read throught the noob answers again since you obviously didn't the first time.

Thanks,

[Aksannyi]

Re: Primary Healer

So you're the judge of who is/isn't a noob?

Nothing wrong with asking questions, that's what a forum is for, and most of us are trying to be helpful. There are some things that the wiki just doesn't tell you. This thread is a good example of that, and we're having a good discussion.

No offense dood, but you're starting to become one of my minor annoyances, and as far as forum members go, that's saying an awful lot because I tend to get along with almost everyone.

And obviously, your thread isn't the "answer to all noob questions."

[Divinespear]

Re: Primary Healer

To Divinespear,

Please stop blanket posting noob question threads that can easily and quickly be answered by looking. I saw your thread the first time and figured you needed to read throught the noob answers again since you obviously didn't the first time.

Thanks,

Within that post:

Jobs:

Which Job Should I Play?

Within that post:

By Roles

Most jobs have a well defined role(s) in parties; if a particular role seems appealing, read on about the jobs listed.

- Tank: PLD, NIN, WAR(↘).

- Healer: WHM(↗), RDM, BLU, PLD, SMN, SCH, PUP(Lv.40+), DNC(↘), DRG(↘).

- Support: BRD(↗), COR, RDM, SMN, SCH, WHM(↘), BLM(↘), BLU(↘), DNC(↘).

- Damage Dealer: WAR, MNK, THF, BLM, DRK, RNG, BST, NIN, SAM, DRG, PUP, BLU, SCH, SMN(↘), COR(↘), PLD(↘), DNC(↘).

By Convenience

If long waiting time for party invites is the deciding factor, try starting parties, play in a small group, or set up static parties. Otherwise, consider the following:

- Solo Exp'ing: BST(↗), RDM, DRG, PUP, BLU, BLM, SMN(↘).

- Fast Invites: BRD, RDM, COR, NIN, PLD. (Level dependent!)

I was merely trying to figure out why if WHM is the best healer they are not on the fast invite list.

Then I started looking at the Red Mage:

Highly sought after in parties (esp. Lv.41+), and quite capable of (slowly) solo on its own. It's a top notch enfeebler; add to it Cure's, Protect/Shell's, Haste, and it is a very flexible mage. Outside of parties, its Stoneskin, Phalanx, and Ice Spikes spells, plus sword, dagger, and shield skills allows it to go toe to toe against many foes, or using Gravity, Bind, Sleep to play a game of kiting/sleeping and nuking with enemies it cannot fight straight on. Within parties, a RDM's duty is centered around Refresh, Haste, enfeeble, and main/backup healing. Though it is capable of contributing substantially to damage by melee'ing during earlier levels, it is safer to play as a back-line job against monsters with AoE attacks or just to ensure enough rest time to recharge MP.

So I then went to the redmage forum:

Couple of things about blm sub vs whm sub

1). whm sub does provide a small bit more of MND, but once you hit 32 rdm/blm, you have access to Shock which lowers enemy MND. Usually you can't rely on your party's blm to cast Shock, ever(at least in my experience), and there's no guarentee that you'll even have a blm in the party, so it's nice to have your own Shock handy. Once you Shock the enemy, your enfeebles will be harder to resist, and they should be more consistantly effective(especially stuff like paralyze and silence).

In other words, the positive benefits of having more MND for enfeebling from whm sub are easily matched by being able to Shock the enemy.

2). whm sub provides divine seal which is on the same refresh timer as Convert. In other words . . .

Convert, Divine Seal, Cure III self

or IV if you like.

whm sub also provides Erase at level . . . 66 rdm/whm I think? Having Erase AND Dispel would be kinda cool. Maybe not all that useful, but kinda cool. You'd also get some of the teleport spells at very high level, but honestly, I'd rather have Warp and Escape.

All things considered, I'd rather have whm sub until level 32, at which point I'll be switching to blm sub. blm sub doesn't provide much other than +int and +mp until 30 or so, and I have two astral rings, so the +mp isn't much of an issue(the difference in mp boost between whm sub and blm sub is quite small for an elvaan such as myself, anyway).

Which contradicts the post:

Time to offer my two cents on the issue, I'm a 40RDM/20BLM for all those wondering. The list of cons will be rather short. I don't think it is right to list the pros of another class as the cons of one, such as BLM isn't good because they don't get Curaga etc. I will only list negatives or misconseptions relating directely to the sub job.

-RDM/BLM: Pros

With the exception of summoner, blackmage gives the highest MP boost of the 3 mage classes. BLM also receive Elemental seal which is great for landing those enfeebles. You also receive two very nice spells, drain and aspir. Since RDM main job is Enfeebling I would reccomend BLM over WHM as best enfeebler because I consider choke/rasp/burn etc. enfeebles (even though they are technicaly elementals). Bottom line is that RDM is enfeeble pro and /BLM gives the most debuffs. BLM also gives Clear mind, increased MP gained when healing, Magic Atk bonuses, and Conserve MP, which randomly cuts down on spell MP cost. (I've heard that similar skills do acctually stack, such as 2 Magic ATK boosts, however they just aren't visible in the abilities window. When my RDM hit 40 I didn't see my second ATK bonus so I think that proves it)

-RDM/BLM: Cons

Many people will sub BLM thinking that it will make them a better damage dealer in terms of elementals, however the INT bonus received from /BLM isn't high enough to compensate for difference in RDM to BLM intelligence. I do about 3/4 to 4/5 the damage of the BLM in my pt's, but I also have all +INT gear. With my wand out I have +14 or so INT. Also you will notice that you don't have the II's or III's like blm's. In PT's BLM's cast Water II for burst, or Fire II, and I would cast Blizzard, they out burst me by atleast 100 pts of damage. (I know have water II, but I still don't do the same damage and its even more clear on bursts)

-RDM/BLM: Conclusion
As far as picking a traditional PT friendly support job, BLM is the route to go. Sub BLM will give you more Debuff spells, nice passives, and a decent amount of MP.
I give this a 4.5/5

--------------------------

-RDM/WHM: Pros
Subbing WHM is probably the most popular choice amoung RDM's. Many RDM play the role of backup healer, if not main healer, and what class to better help than WHM. WHM gives you a boost to your MND which effects healing potency, as well as access to AOE Cures ( Curaga) , AOE protections (Protectra, shell, bar-insertelmenthere), and status cures (Blindna, Viruna). The RDM/WHM is almost entirely supportave in that you really don't get any offensive bonuses in magic attack or passives. Auto Regen is nice I and can cut down on unneccissary cures after a convert. Divine Seal is probably the best thing about subbing WHM, You could phalanx/stoneskin/divine seal/ curaga and should probably last a little while for the others to build up hate.

-RDM/WHM: Cons
Contrary to what most people think RDM/WHM is not the best Sub if you want to be a healer. Your MND will only be a few points, maybe 3, higher than a /BLM. (this is around lvl 35ish). And even with mostly +INT gear on my RDM/BLM I am still able to heal for the full amounts for Cure I and Cure II. I have no problem playing main healer with only Cure II and Regen, so even if you don't heal full with Cure III it is not needed. More importantly you probably wouldn't heal the full amount with /WHM either. The MP you get from SMN or BLM will give you another Cure that makes up for _maybe_ not healing as much as the /WHM. Subbing WHM won't get you cure spells any faster, your RDM only gets them a few levels behind the WHM as is. The only spell that you will get in an offensive view is Banish, which you probably wouldn't use anyways, and I'm not even sure which enfeebles are WHM only if there even are such spells.

RDM/WHM: Conclusion
Support Class WHM gives a few "nice" adds and some nice bonus on paper, but in real game situations they aren't nearly as needed as some of the other subs. WHM doesn't give as much MP as a BLM or a SMN, and the extra MND isn't enough to make a big difference, you won't get any offensive benefits either. However you will get status cures which are very nice, and AOE buffs/cures which combined with the resistance of a RDM can be quite usefull
I give this a 4/5

Add to that most of the posts you linked to are over a year old I wasn't sure how accurate or up-to-date they were.


Also I made 2 posts, that's hardly blanket posting were I bet if I searched your post history a large majority of yours would have been the exact same quote which is blanket posting.
______________________________
So from what I'm reading. While RDM is a popular primary healer but there's nothing wrong with WHM/???

Based on what I've gleaned from this I think I'll go

BLM/WHM to 15 then
WHM/BLM to 30 then
SCH/WHM to 37 then
WHM/SCH to 75

Kinda sucks to have to re-level after getting to 30 but whatever works.