black and white magic combos question

[Kerio]

I know this thread is probably somewhere else... but i couldn't find one.

I just started Red Mage and realized oh so suddenly that, hey, i have both white and black magic. But... i've heard things like my Dia spell can overwrite or even cancel out my Poison spell.

This is true right? If so, how does it work? And to what extent?

Also, do other spells like Bio interfere with Paralyze? Or Blind interfere with something else? How does this work? Which spells cancel each other out? Is there a forum about this you can link me to or can you guys just tell me directly?

I'm a new red mage so please help me out~!

[Jonastb]

Re: black and white magic combos question

Bio overwrites Dia of the same or lower level. The rest shouldn't really effect each other.

[Kerio]

Re: black and white magic combos question

ooook... how about casting blind and then Dia? Does casting white magic on a monster after I cast black magic lessen the black magic effect? What about gravity? If i cast something after gravity, which types of spells will lessen it's effect?

And what about the poison thing? Can i cast both Poison and Dia and let their effects work together?

[Jonastb]

Re: black and white magic combos question

Poison and Dia work together. Casting WHM and BLM together does not seem to lessen the effects, with the exception of Dia and Bio. Not really sure why that is.

[Ellipses]

Re: black and white magic combos question

Bio and Dia are incompatible as Jonastb said. The elemental enfeebles (Rasp, Shock, etc.) can only be stacked in certain combinations. Apart from those two rules, everything else is wide open.

Poison, Gravity, Bind, Blind, Paralyze, Slow, Sleep, and Silence have absolutely no effect on each other, Bio, Dia, or vice versa. (You can land Sleep, it's just that the mob will wake up immediately of it has some form of DoT on it.)

[Armando]

Re: black and white magic combos question

The only spells that interfere with each other are Bio vs Dia and the 6 Elemental DoTs (Burn/Frost/Choke/Rasp/Shock/Drown.) Nothing else matters. The enfeebles the mob has on have no effect on its resistance or weakness to the elements, casting X spell won't affect the efficiency of the others, etc. etc.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: black and white magic combos question

See, that's the thing I love about being a Red Mage: you get to stack all sorts of tasty Enfeebles against your opponent. Trust me, nothing beats fighting a Dia'd Paralyzed Slowed Blinded Bound (for the heck of it) Poisoned Weighted and Silenced foe. And for the record, aside from Bio and Sleep (Bio overwrites Dia of the same level, and Sleep is useless with DoTs), those are basically all of our Enfeebles until 30.

EDIT: I just realized, those are basically ALL of our Enfeebles excluding Dispel (32). And we don't even get higher tiers of some of these except as worthless Merit Spells, if even that?

[Kerio]

Re: black and white magic combos question

ohh that's good to know, thanks for clearing that up. Um.. but you called the merit spells useless?? Why's that?

[Yellow Mage]

Re: black and white magic combos question

Bio III you'll typically not want, as Dia people tend to value more, and, really, the sole purpose for having Bio III is practically so nobody else but you can overwrite your Dia III! But, in all seriousness, it's pretty good DoT if you have plenty good Dark Magic+ gear and/or are /SCH w/Dark Arts on.

Dia III is good for overwriting Bio II, because nobody but you and other Red Mages could even try Bio III, as covered above.

Blind II I've heard pretty good things of, but for any Ninja willing to use it, they get Kurayami: Ni 31 levels earlier.

Slow II is probably the best thing on there, what with not being able to be overwritten by your typical Haste.

Paralyze II . . . eh, I suppose, maybe, but take note you get your most potent Paralyze 35 levels earlier. And if you're afraid of getting hit, even with all of Stoneskin, Phalanx, and Blink by that point, you're nuts. Red Mage was designed to at the very least endure the front lines.

Screw Phalanx II. Seriously. Don't make me explain why. . . . Okay, fine. Three words: less potent Phalanx. If that's not enough to turn you off, know that it's main draw was that you couldn't even cast it on yourself in the first place, and instead is used on other party members! Never mind the fact that Scholar . . . well, just see for yourself.

All in all, some are good, whereas others, well . . . but I see no reason whatsoever any of those "II" spells couldn't have been given to us at a much lower level than 75, considering we get all of their less potent counterparts by level 30. But, I'm just ranting here . . .

[TheGrandMom]

Re: black and white magic combos question

All in all, some are good, whereas others, well . . . but I see no reason whatsoever any of those "II" spells couldn't have been given to us at a much lower level than 75, considering we get all of their less potent counterparts by level 30. But, I'm just ranting here . . .

Preach on my fellow Red Mage!!

[Neomage]

Re: black and white magic combos question

Bio overwrties Dia. Dia II overwrites Bio. Bio II overwrites Dia II.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: black and white magic combos question

Bio III you'll typically not want, as Dia people tend to value more, and, really, the sole purpose for having Bio III is practically so nobody else but you can overwrite your Dia III! But, in all seriousness, it's pretty good DoT if you have plenty good Dark Magic+ gear and/or are /SCH w/Dark Arts on.

Bio II is better DoT unless you raise Bio III to Lv.3, and stack on Dark Magic gear.

The real purpose of Bio III is add safety for non-Utsusemi tanks, IMO, and to make the MP spend worthwhile, need it at Lv.2 or Lv.3.

Dia III is good for overwriting Bio II, because nobody but you and other Red Mages could even try Bio III, as covered above.

The real reason for Dia III is for melee zerged fights; it's wanted for defense down side effect.

Blind II I've heard pretty good things of, but for any Ninja willing to use it, they get Kurayami: Ni 31 levels earlier.

Blind II can be stronger than Kurayami: Ni, with enough INT to back it up. This is probably the most narrowly useful of all merit spells, since about the only time one relies on evasion at Lv.75 is when working with THF tanks.

Slow II is probably the best thing on there, what with not being able to be overwritten by your typical Haste.

Also makes things easier to tank. That's kinda important.

Paralyze II . . . eh, I suppose, maybe, but take note you get your most potent Paralyze 35 levels earlier. And if you're afraid of getting hit, even with all of Stoneskin, Phalanx, and Blink by that point, you're nuts. Red Mage was designed to at the very least endure the front lines.

Big critters will flatten you in three or four hits without Utsusemi. Ice Spikes is cute for certain things, but it is no replacement for Paralyze I or II. Besides, not every LS uses RDM to tank everything.

Screw Phalanx II. Seriously. Don't make me explain why. . . . Okay, fine. Three words: less potent Phalanx. If that's not enough to turn you off, know that it's main draw was that you couldn't even cast it on yourself in the first place, and instead is used on other party members! Never mind the fact that Scholar . . . well, just see for yourself.

We went over this; this spells helps in some activities. It's no miracle maker, but definitely more practical than SCH Phalanx-ga for target and tank combinations for which Phalanx matters.

All in all, some are good, whereas others, well . . . but I see no reason whatsoever any of those "II" spells couldn't have been given to us at a much lower level than 75, considering we get all of their less potent counterparts by level 30. But, I'm just ranting here . . .

Because you don't need them to do well on Red Mage. Because the game wasn't designed with them in mind originally. Etc. Take your pick. Only S-E knows for sure. heh.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: black and white magic combos question

Yeesh, way to rain on my parade, Itaz.

I'm not going to argue with your points on Dia, Bio, and Slow; the whole point on bringing up Kurayami: Ni was that it was a comparable spell at 31 levels earlier; Sentinel.

And give me one good reason to even think about meriting Phalanx II. That one is the real parlor trick of the bunch, and that's saying something. It won't make or break a tank, and even if it did, Scholar can do it even better. Your efficiency argument is moot in the situation of dual/multiple-tanks or if just one other person snatches hate from the tank for even just one attack round. And even if not, Phalanx II is just barely more efficient, and is really more niched in uses than you placed Blind II as.

And, while they aren't needed, you can't deny that they would definitely help, particularly after the 50's.

But, yes, your mileage will, indeed, vary, especially with a versatile job such as Red Mage.

[Murphie]

Re: black and white magic combos question

YM, you don't have to think about meriting Phalanx II, because it will be 2025 before you even reach 75 RDM.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: black and white magic combos question

Okay, screw it all: Murph wins the derail. XD