RED MAGES. HInts

[Kosh]

Jei,

You say that bard is not a good sub because RDM Regen is better than Piano and RDM Refresh is better than Ballad. But can't Regen and Piano stack together to do A LOT of healing and can't Refresh and Ballad stack to do A LOT of MP heal. If this is the case than why do you think bard is a bad sub? Also, isn't it helpful that the bard will not use up MP? Also do you think Bard's silence resistance is a lot of help or is silence not used much in the game by the enemies? I do not understand why it's a bad sub...

Oh, and I have a question about convert. I know it switches MP to HP and HP to MP but does it allow you to exceed your normal MP cap? In other words, if I have 900 HP and 200 MP and I use convert will I now have 200 HP and 900 MP?!?! Or does Convert only fill up your MP to its normal cap?

Also, what is the best race for a red mage and why? Thanks for all of the info, everybody. It's a really great thread!

[Jei]

Kosh >> no. /brd has very little benefit as i mentioned above already.

60rdm/30brd, you only have pian 2 and ballard 1. and a sub bard only allows you to sing 1 song. and you have to sing, can't use instrument. you spend longer time than bard to sing a single song.

having MP to cast more spell is a lot better than 1 song Not only 2-3 more refresh and 7-8 more regen, don't forget RDM got other spells as well. Dispel, Cure, ect all require MP

Convert can't exceed HPMP max ^^

[Callous]

one more thing about bards??
with these regen bard songs what instrument would i use with pian and ballad??

[SharMarali]

Someone asked about the best race for RDM. I don't really think there is a "Best race" for RDM, but there are two races in particular that I think would be disadvantaged by playing as a RDM.

Taru Taru - It SEEMS like this would be great for RDM, what with Tarus being MP powerhouses. But in reality, RDMs need to have some strength and HP. You never know when you may be called into a PT that already has 3 mages to round out the WS link, or when you may have to jump in with your sword because you're out of MP, people in your PT are losing HP left and right, and what they're fighting is almost dead, so you're using your last resort and trying to help them bash it to death. Also for soloing/money hunting/questing/etc (basically anytime when you're not in a full PT) ..RDM needs to have SOME fighting capabilities. The job was designed with the idea in mind that you needed to be able to weild a sword in a halfway decent manner, which is why we receive all the enchant spells. RDM stats cause our magic to be a teensy bit weaker than that of a BLM or WHM, so therefore if you can't whack, you're going to have a rough time going it solo. Really, if you want to be a Taru Taru mage, I suggest going BLM or WHM.

Galka - Well, for anyone who reads the forums at all or has played the game at all, I think it's fairly obvious why a Galka would not make a great RDM. Low MP, low MND, low INT..For all my protestations that magic capabilites aren't everything for a RDM, they definately are SOMETHING. And Galkas just don't have it.

As for the other races..Humes & Mithras are pretty equal in terms of magic using stats. If I'm not terribly mistaken (and I could be, because I've never played as a Hume or Mithra, nor have I extensively watched someone play as a Hume or Mithra as I have with Taru and Galka) ..Mithras have better evasion and Humes better strength..Neither one of which is a bad thing to have as a RDM, but neither one of which is going to make you or break you on that score. I think there are other minor differences as well, but both races are pretty good all-around characters.

Elvaan - Well, if I had it to do all over again, I probably would NOT have chosen Elvaan for RDM. But there is no way I'm starting over after I've put hundreds of hours into this character. The fact is, Elvaans are slightly disadvantaged over Humes and Mithras in the way of magic using. A lot of the differences can be made up with stat boosting equipment, but keep in mind that Hume and Mithra characters can buy stat boosting equipment too, so you're really not staying ahead of the game that way. Elvaans make much better tanks than Humes or Mithras though, and this can be handy for a RDM occassionally. Especially when you're not in a full PT. The ability to take two or three more hits before dying can make a huge difference.

Hope this helped answer that question somewhat^-^

[SharMarali]

Also, before you break your neck trying to translate all that RDM AF stuff..May I suggest a visit to Eriwilde's fantastic website.

http://www.davidbowie.jp/eriwilde/ffxi/

I know this link has been posted all over the forum, but for anyone who has NOT yet checked it out, PLEASE do.

Eriwilde obviously puts a LOT of work into this site, and I'm sure if you take a look at it for a few minutes, you can find some way in which the site is benefical. I have consulted it MORE than a few times.

The AF quests are listed under Job & AF on the left menu (or something like that..you'll find it..it's the only one that says AF ^^)

Full credit to Eriwilde for the wonderful site which I have absolutely nothing to do with, but cannot possibly overstate the value of. Thanks Eriwilde!

[Kosh]

You weren't quite clear... how exactly are elvaan disadvantaged as magic users? They have higher MND than hume and mithra and for a RDM better strength is good too. DO you mean they are not good because of lower MP?

[Maxim]

Yes Kosh, Elvaans don't get as much MP when compared to all the other races save Galka. Just because they have a high MND doesn't help them in the Black Magic department either.

Also, when it comes to curative spells in this game it's quantity over quality - the more you can heal the better. MND doesn't contribute a huge enough boost in curing to make it worthwhile. For CureI, the difference of a high MND healer over a low MND healer is something like 31 HP over 29 (although it does fluctuate up or down a few points). Due to this, it helps if the RDM has more MP since healing for 29 a total of five times is better than healing for 31 a total of two times.

Oh, and for those who want to see what Convert looks like/does, here's a quicky screenshot of it:

1) Notice how HP is full, and MP is almost gone (Look at the HP/MP bar on the very top of the menu on the bottom right):
http://april-showers.com/maxim/ffxi/con1.jpg

2) After using Convert, the HP is transfered to MP. Although I had 635 HP to start with, the MP can only be recovered up to its maximum (In this case 349). The difference is gone. In exchange the MP is switched to the HP as well. Also, it's a ten minute ability, and since Signs of Goddess is also a ten minute ability, healing yourself after using Convert isn't too costly MP-wise if you're a RDM/WHM.
http://april-showers.com/maxim/ffxi/con2.jpg

[Jei]

sometimes i wish i have less HP and more MP for the sake of convert as maxim mentioned.

right now with the plus and minus from items, I have approx 940 HP and 620 MP. if my HP is full, when converted I would lost about 300 HP....

I saw Tarutaru RDM around 60-63 they have almost equal HP and MP. like 750 HP 730 MP something like that. Tarutaru will make excellent converter definitely.

about Elvaan, apart from players character....
The RDM AF quest, the legandary RDM we followed his path is an Elvaan somehow. :p might mean something hehe

[Kosh]

Thanks for all the info everyone. But what about the times when the Red Mage joins the battle, wouldn't the Elvaan's extra STR and VIT be good to have? Or are RDM just not used much in melee battle at the later levels?

EDIT:
By the way, I realize that the RDM is not a fighter class and I'm not saying anything like "Use Elvaan so RDM can be a good tank", I'm just saying when RDM do fight, don't the extra STR and VIT make up for lower MP (since unlike WHM, RDM are not worthless if out of MP).

Also, since they have the convert spell, in a way they get more MP than anyone, so wouldn't it be worth losing a few MP for STR?

[Jei]

hard to say. there's many many different situation around but with the nice spells RDM are getting nowadays people definitely will pick RDM to cast those magics

the last time my RDM /war and play as pure fighter was at level 64. but that's a PT of all LS members ;; they are all my friends.
I mean it's ok to do something like that with friends for fun :p
but if you're waiting for a PT call from someone you neve know they probably not gonna pick RDM to tank

our weapon skill is really too low to hit enough to charge TP as fast as other jobs. and out attack power is quite... poor due to our weak weapon and less skill.
the only way for me to be able to catch up with other fighters in that PT, is by buffing myself. refresh, haiste, en, blink, stoneskin, the spell that im supposed to cast on other people all on myself.
with all those magic I can perform quite ok for a tank job.
But that means i have to save all MP for myself. not really have enough MP to cast on others if you choose to do so.


EDIT: some addition about my daily level up PT experience

as RDM, I only attacks if it's possible to attack. But please note: RDM's attack is never meant to do a real damage. it's for up skill mainly. if PLD hit for 60, RDM might hit for 20. and hardly hit.
(for weak enemies, our attack can do good damage )

- nowadays PT with BRD and RDM are really popular. if I got into a PT with BRD, 90% I can't attack in order to be maximum effecient, I need to stand far away from fighters so BRD can sing 2 balland for me.

- PT without BRD sometimes i can't join the attack...
sometimes the tanks are weak, so i have to heal a lot. being able to sit a bit more for MP is better than keep attacking.
sometimes we fight enemies that can do group attack. i don't want to waiste WHM's MP healing me....

about "having the extra strength to help make the final hit", I found that situation to be reallly rare (never happens to me)

More common situation for me is...
My PT get link! We can't sleep them and they all hitting our WHM. The goblin then threw bomb making us all near dead.
That is a sure death situation...... and there i go.
"Everyone come close!"
"2 hour ability ... ESCAPE!"
woo----sh.... and we all escape alive~
^^ hurray to RDM. woot woot

[tazirai]

what jei said...

I consider jei , maxim and sharmarali the redmages to consider when tryin to determines best outcomes when it comes to this class , im getting there but these guys have been there from day one which is good.

now for the redmage in essence as a war.
One thing id reccomend is to take redmage to 18 while also taking the war to 18 maybe blm to 9 .
reSon being is that if you want to tank when the pt just cant find that last warrior having your weaponskill and redmage abilities is a good thing.
I have been in a couple jueno Pt where it was me as riesa as war/monk/ 3 mages and a dark/war, we couldnt find a war to save our lives and th leader ask if a rdm/war was ok .
beleive me when i say the renkei was off the chain , with the
with fastblade>powerslash>fastblade combo plus a black mage ,magic burst it worked out.

WHat the red mage became was like an emergency rescue guy. qwhen the enemy got to 40% life he start blasting with spells then me and the dark would taunt it . he even had a couple heal macros set up. Its a good thing when a rdm knows his characters strength and weakness and able to make good use of it in a Pt and outside a PT.

[SharMarali]

RDM *does* sometimes, even often, need to play as a fighter at early levels. After level 19-20 or so though, this happens less and less. I used to ask the PT leader every time I joined a PT at levels 18 and below if I should fight or use magic. Sometimes they would say magic, sometimes they would say fight, and sometimes they would say both. Once I got to Jeuno at level 20, I asked PT leaders like I had been doing all along if I should fight or use magic. I found that they ALWAYS said magic. Sometimes they would even laugh at the question. This was before I really learned about the dynamic of the game, that 3 mages (that includes BRDs and SMNs) and 3 fighters is usually what makes a good PT. Otherwise I would never have asked in the first place. ^^

Since being in Jeuno, I have only played as a fighter in a PT twice that I can recall. Once was because we could not fight 6 members, so we decided to just go into Qufim and kill worms (this was around level 25-26 or so) with just the 4 of us, so I had to do a little of everything. The other time, I am still angry about..haha. I started a PT myself because I was tired of waiting. I had 5 members, including myself. Two fighters, a black mage, a white mage, and me. I was about to do a /tell to a thief around our level (I was level 30-31 I think) when the white mage asked me to pass him the leader. Figuring that he had a third fighter lined up, I passed it to him. So he invites a FRIGGIN SUMMONER!! Now, a PT can do OK with LESS than 3 mages as long as everyone is on top of their game. A PT with MORE than 3 mages rarely works. There are exceptions, before you all fry me for saying that, but it is a lot harder. Ugh. That made me so mad because there were a TON of fighter types looking for PTs right then.

Anway that went a little off topic..haha..My point is, higher level RDMs rarely play as a fighter. Not saying that I AM a high level RDM by any means..hehe..But I'm high enough to have learned that my WAR is probably going to need retirement now. ^^

[Jonnyram]

I just saw THIS image so I had to post.

I wonder if they won


I'm a RDM/BLM and there's no way I would ever go back to being a RDM/WAR like I was before. Yeah, Red Lotus and Taunt were useful, but nothing beats having instant, unstoppable dezone - it's great for some of the trickier quests when soloing, and as Jei mentions, being able to do the same with escape will save my party's ass later. Of course the extra MP helps too, and I've started buying -GA elemental spells which are nice. There are many times when BLMs aren't available so you'll end up doing BLM tasks in a party, like casting rasp or similar.

I'm not sure if the Taru would be better for convert... if they lose any HP at all in a fight, you will not get full MP top-up which is not really what you want from convert. Also, there's not much point in eating pies to increase your MP either. If it goes above your HP, it's a total waste of convert skill.

I'm just curious about people's armour preference now. For the longest time, I'd been going around in cloaks (there were about 3 I went through from lv10 to 34), but now I got to lv40, I switched to the nice jacket and beret. I preferred the cloaks for limited inventory usage, and sometimes nice stats like INT boost, but the increased defense of the jacket/beret combination is much preferred now. Plus I liked having an image change What do other people prefer?

I still haven't raised my archery skill above 1 actually. Seems way too expensive and wasteful.

Oh, and IMO, Gravity is a very useful spell! I often cast it on the enemy at the start of a fight to slow them down and let everyone get prepared, as well as casting more weakening spells before it starts to fight us. I read it also reduces their VIT or DEX now, I can't remember which though.

[tazirai]

thanks jonny

hey if you can i started a red mage armor thread to sho th e mages in dirrent armo combos i you can post some that fit you well

[Nameless]

Now I'm thinking about being a RDM :sweat:. I was wondering how you guys leveled. I read both Jei's and Maxim's journals and I know I'll want white mage. But I would also want Black Mage for dezone too and black magic incase for PT.

Oh yeah and how much did you get PT's at the begining?



Grr I can't decide between DRK and RDM, but I have time until the US release.

EDIT: and what magic do you level besides weakening mage and strengthing magic?