Supposed RDM-melee update: thoughts on a kooky idea..

[Akashimo]

Re: Supposed RDM-melee update: thoughts on a kooky idea..

(personaly ive put many jobs to shame in damage with the exception of ridil war and BB mnk, some hagun sams have been beaten but most are ahead of me by 10% total damage.)

I call BS there.

And its either going to be Spike or DoT. Most effective would be sticking with DoT, if you're going to spike /war or /drk. Top 100% Savage Blade on Colibri, 324 using Justice Joy. That ain't going to win spike damage, hmmm yes, DoT. Until I can find a decent dagger I like, being one great for main handing only, its DoT all the way, Evis is only prime for spiking.

[MrMageo]

Re: Supposed RDM-melee update: thoughts on a kooky idea..

get yourself a blau and come talk to me. when i go to DD and just DD not as a refresh or haste monkey using dia at most. I deal 100-140 damage (inluding enspells and 140 when joytoy double procs.) @ 80-85% accuracy on mamool. (slightly more damage but a slight decrease in ACC on colibri.) with haste and march I get 1 attack round every 2-3 seconds(ish) compared to any other melee job (with the exception of those ive mentioned) I crush them. Ive made DRK's, DRG's, NIN's, THF's look like pylons. I do more damage sraight up then them and spike damage is about par (except dark knights but i get 2 attack rounds per each 1 of theirs.)

Statistically for all out damage Blau/Joy is the way to go. It will be until RDM gets a decent Sword weaponskill which we can use while DW. Savage blade dosent cut it, Fast Blade is our most reliable sword weaponskill and we get it at lvl 3.

I garuntee I will out parse a /war, /drk, /blu in a damage race any day of the week (i know because ive tried them all to find the best). Im not trying to come off as a guy whose ass shoots rainbows, but from everything I have done melee wise Blau/Joy is the best im just telling it how it is.

Now if my role was altered and I was responsible for refresh haste and curing I would sub blue mage and rely on spike damage. If I was really desperate id go /dnc and forget my big ws entirely, and failing that I would backline it /WHM but that is rare.

RDM is highley capable of comepteing with the big boys. but the thing most people forget is that, yes we may do 15% less overall damage, but we have a 100% better ability to support the group if need be.

[Akashimo]

Re: Supposed RDM-melee update: thoughts on a kooky idea..

trying to come off as a guy whose ass shoots rainbows

Pretty much sums it up. kthxbai

[MrMageo]

Re: Supposed RDM-melee update: thoughts on a kooky idea..

lol its not my fault you half ass it push it off as how it works. I have been there before and worked past it and know what RDM is capable of.

Blau/joy is greater than Justice/Joy in overall damage dont believe me go get yourself a blau and test it for yourself.

[arkaine23]

Re: Supposed RDM-melee update: thoughts on a kooky idea..

I also prefer Blau/Joy over Joy/Justice. There's a pretty large speed difference, piercing vs slashing, and the WS difference.

I use 12% Haste gear, Suppa/Brutal, and the Haste spell so...
Total delay of BD/Joy for me is around 235. Attack rate of 2.57/round.
Total delay of Joy/Justice is for me is around 269. Attack rate of 3.07/round.

The difference comes out to be about +2 attacks for Swordchucks over the course of a minute... around +1 attack every 30-40 seconds or so. That's not nearly enough to make up the damage difference of Evisceration vs any other Sword WS we have as /NIN at 100TP.

3600 total delay = 1 minute
Divide by attack round delay = 13 whole rounds for swordchucks, 15 for BD/Joy
Multiply by attack rate = 38.55 attacks for BD/Joy, 39.91 attacks for Swordchucks

Furthermore:
BD/Joy has +7 acc and +18 attack including an ammo slot item like Tiphia Sting, which can't be used for Swordchucks. Whereas Swordchucks offers +7 STR and +3-4 attack (from the STR). BD and Evisceration get piercing damage bonus. Justice and Sword WS's do not.

And while BD's latent base damage is 1 less than Justice Sword (33 vs 34), you can count on it being effectively higher vs quite a lot of mob types.




Regarding /WAR vs /NIN. /WAR is a very good DD subjob. However, you do wind up losing time on frequent Stoneskin casting, and taking more damage than RDM/NIN would when hate's on you. Vorpal Blade doesn't get peiricng bonus. You get less benefit from DA on your regular hits because of using Joyeuse. RDM/NIN with BD/Joy gets more swings/time than /WAR with Joyeuse, though his TP gain is very slightly slower.

/DRK and /BLU are more for utility from Stun/Apsir/Drain/cheap cures-curaga. /DNC is also a utility sub that offers big conservation of your mp pool through TP curing and other benefits to the party. They are mediocre choices for damage dealing as RDM.

[Akashimo]

Re: Supposed RDM-melee update: thoughts on a kooky idea..

lol its not my fault you half ass it push it off as how it works. I have been there before and worked past it and know what RDM is capable of.

Blau/joy is greater than Justice/Joy in overall damage dont believe me go get yourself a blau and test it for yourself.

1, no money, 2 i want to see actual numbers of it being done. Screen shots. No real evidence has been given, so I'm not going to believe a word you say.

3600 total delay = 1 minute
Divide by attack round delay = 13 whole rounds for swordchucks, 15 for BD/Joy
Multiply by attack rate = 38.55 attacks for BD/Joy, 39.91 attacks for Swordchucks

Wouldn't it still be a higher attack rate than a mear 1.36 with the fact that brutal stacks with justice, making it 3 attacks, plus the 2 max from joy for 5 possible attacks per round than the 4 just from blau/joy? Add in the 5% DA possible for blau, it still seems to be the lesser one when focusing on DoT setups and not spiked. A DD role is to have a high DoT, hate control for TA focuses on spiked.

[arkaine23]

Re: Supposed RDM-melee update: thoughts on a kooky idea..

I included Brutal for both setups. Basically Brutal is about +7% attacks/round with either setup. Regardless of it it produces 3 attacks with justice or 2 attacks when Justice's own DA does not go off, its still just adding 5% chance of an extra attack on that weapon (its only checked once, not twice) and ~2% chance of an extra attack from joyeuse.

What cuts heavily into Joy/Justice's attacks/time in this comparison is the much lower delay of a mainhand dagger. Blau is 178. Most other dagger choices would be 186 or 183. Compared to Justice's 236. Its like having ~14% more haste, whereas Justice itself is only giving about 20% more DA rate when paired with Joyeuse.

I've WS'd on Colibri with Justice and Joy, and I just can't consistently break 200 ( in a BRD-less party on Sushi), with Savage Blade, Burning Blade, Spirits Within, or Fast Blade at 100TP. Whereas its pretty easy to average 500ish Eviscerations with a Blau at 100TP.

Furthermore on a piercing-weak target, Blau will produce more melee damage than Justice per hit, even considering the additional fSTR that Justice and Joy would both have from the Justice's +7 STR. In itself the attack/acc/and piercing bonus of Blau make up for the few additional attacks one has with Swordchucks. The damage of Evisceration vs /NIN Sword WS's widens the gap further in favor of dagger/joy.


I know Blau is very expensive. I farmed for a month to get mine beacause its just that good. Additionally, a good RDM damage build needs 10-12%+ haste gear which is also pricey and/or requires some work to obtain rare items. Still you can get a taste of what we're talking about with a Martial Knife or Misercorde +1, although you miss out on some acc/attack and 5-6 base damage.

[Akashimo]

Re: Supposed RDM-melee update: thoughts on a kooky idea..

I've WS'd on Colibri with Justice and Joy, and I just can't consistently break 200 ( in a BRD-less party on Sushi), with Savage Blade, Burning Blade, Spirits Within, or Fast Blade at 100TP. Whereas its pretty easy to average 500ish Eviscerations with a Blau at 100TP.

250 was my average, sad to say v_v; I'm working on getting the Pahluwan Khazagand, Pahluwan Dastanas and Pahluwan Seraweels to see if I can't up it Savage Blade to 300 consistantly with no food and no bard. Then get another 2 merits in sword. Yay for 259 sword xD... Anyways. 10% no problem there ;3 Swift, Nashira hands and haste hat all set there.

Still you can get a taste of what we're talking about with a Martial Knife or Misercorde +1, although you miss out on some acc/attack and 5-6 base damage.

I've considered Martial, given that the crit rate would go up by some percentage for Evisceration, just kind of hard for me to let go of the extra attack rounds ;x

But my main focus right now is spamming 4 tag assaults so i can get 20k points, and farming to save for Dusk Trousers until I get the Pahluwan Seraweels, then just sell them for dusk gloves. Don't get me wrong, I know Evisceration is a great dagger, being the best spiked damage record for me in a merit party as Thf, but its discouraging to see it done on Rdm for me =x