Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

[Icemage]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Are RDMs (and only a select few, at that..) the only one's complaining?

Good Lord, RDMs should be ECSTATIC.

What's wrong with you people?

Not all RDMs. Just a few prima donnas out there. Most of us who play mage jobs, red mage in particular, realize that all of the various mages have their own role at endgame.

I'd classify Scholar has "sufficiently unique" to have earned its own niche at this point. It might be just a shade too good, in the same way that red mages might be a shade too good, but not game-breakingly so.

And yes, as you say, the people who hate mage jobs aren't going to magically run out and level Scholar just because it's good. Scholar is too complex for a lot of people to enjoy; you really have to drill down and manage your timers and resources once you get to level 30+ because while you can do any one thing well at any one time, you can't do all things well at all times.


Icemage

[Icemage]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Ice Mage your on crack. seriously man stfu for once.

Para 2 sucks
Slow 2 sucks
Phalanx 2 sucks
Blind 2 sucks
Bio 3 Sucks
Dia 3 sucks

I have already stated in order to get one to be worth a damn you need to put multiple merits in it, level 2-3 for it to be worth any thing. That leaves you 2-3 points that can go to make another spell slightly less shitty. Also if you look back at my posts I say slow is the only one that is worth it @ 1 point because it gives you a 100% effect of slow no variables just slow. The rest are over priced and ineffective.

You said, and I quote:

personally ive got 1 merit in each thing and dont care, they all suck monkey dick

Slow II doesn't "suck" by any stretch of the imagination. It may or may not be worth 3 levels, but the ability to overwrite any Haste effect in the game is pretty useful.

Bio III doesn't "suck" either. It, too, has its uses (Dynamis monk-types using Hundred Fists, Tiamat/Jormungand putting up Mighty Strikes, various and sundry other NMs like Faust who like to hit you a lot). And you can write a novel on how useful it is against Byakko.

Dia III is good when you're trying to meleeburn something like Kirin. Unless you'd care to argue that melees can easily reach the attack cap against Kirin, or even something more innocuous like King Vinegarroon.

Phalanx II's primary usage is against super-fast or otherwise unavoidable hits. Charybdis, Tiamat, Jormungand, Ouryu, anything using Hundred Fists, etc. Or even something innocuous like the chigoes in the Saving Private Ryaaf Assault.

Paralyze II is somewhat stickier than regular Paralyze, and seems to proc a bit more often against higher level targets when stacked to level 3, but it's not a night and day difference.

Blind II is the only one on the list that's truly unimpressive in most circumstances. Basically only useful if you're small grouping with a THF/NIN or other evasion tank who can't cast Kurayami: Ni.

Are any of these spells earth-shatteringly useful? Certainly not, aside from the requisite 1+ level of Slow II, but still a far cry from being worthless.

Phalanx 2 is Highley effective if its used properly, that means putting it up prior to WS's. etc and is one of the most useful tools I have as RDM. However the arguement is not the use of Phalanx or other merits its that SCH can do it more effectivley. It dosent hurt as as you continually think is what is being said. It steps on our toes. At least SMN's was high MP cost for less effect, instead SCH wins in both aspects.

You just got done trying to convince us that Phalanx 2 "sucks". So which is it?

As for sublimation hurting us, your out of your mind. Sublimation dosent effect RDM in any way what so ever. If you get into a party with a sumbimator you simply ask refresh or sublimation, problem solved.

Or I can just go out and merit without a Red Mage any more since DD DD DD COR BRD + WHM/SCH or SMN/SCH is pretty much just as effective nowadays.

Or the fact that I don't need RDM in my tank party any more on WHM since they're basically there to cast Refresh and Haste - and they can do the Haste thing perfectly well from outside the tank party.

Sure, it's just a flesh wound... right?

As for addendum, again your of your rocker, with the exception of teir 4's SCH gains nothing it couldnt gain from subbing whm or blm. Not to mention it runs on the same timer as you say makes using Phalanxga unreasonable.

*cough*bullshit*cough*

Nice try Mr. I've-Never-Levelled-Scholar-And-Don't-Know-How-It-Works
Raise II. Reraise II. Stona. Pretty big additions from Addendum : White, considering that the only other competition White Mages had previously for Stona was the Spring Water blood pact from Summoners.

SCH can use phalanxga further proving our teir 2 merits are shit. BLM can out DoT our BIO3 with BIO2 further proving our merits are shit. Unless you have 330 enfeebling your not sticking slow or para or blind without ES, making our group 2 merits shit. Thats the only negatives RDM has is our god awful shity group 2 merits. Hopefully SE just gets rid of them entirely, for the love of god they suck ass. Almost every other job gets a respectable amount from their group 2 merits, RDM we get a whopping kick to the balls.

Would you like some more cheese for your whine? There are a number of other jobs that got far more useless crap than Red Mages got (Ninjas, for instance).

And if you think the primary reason to cast Bio III is the damage over time, you're even more clueless than I had thought.

Ice Mage. You going to close this thread too because people disagree with you, maybe ill post up my test numbers from my para vs para 2 to show you that the teir 2 abilities suck ass.

Well, I wouldn't expect any decent test numbers on Paralyze from you. You're usually too busy swinging your Enhancing Sword to actually wield a weapon that might actually help your spell potency.

SCH is the new support job, if I see a sch in my group even think about dropping a teir 4 before giving party ss/blink/phalanx they are getting booted as fast as a rdm who dosent enfeeble or refresh.

Sigh. I don't even know why I bother.

Addendom: Black only consumes a strategem charge once - and only once. It lasts for about an hour after activated.

Feel free to kick those Scholars if you like. I'm more than happy to see a Scholar nuking in a party these days, particularly at end-game, especially since Phalanxga really isn't all that useful, and there's other jobs that do Stoneskinga and Blinkga without having to turn to my Strategem-restricted Scholar.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

If half my PT is /NIN (which is just the norm, I'm not advocating it), why would I even waste time with Phalanx and Blink?

If a /NIN melee briefly pulls hate, Utsusemi and Stoneskin should cover him more than enough for a round of fighting. Additionally, that Stoneskin grants me the benefit of resting while Sublimation is active.

SCH may very well be one of the most situational jobs placed in this game. There are times /RDM would be better, other times /WHM or /BLM more appropriate. If my main function is healing, then /WHM saves me a strategem charge most of the time since I can get most of Addendum: White's benefits under subjob there. This means I can remove the need to do Accession > Cure III or IV and instead do Rapture > Curaga II.

If a DNC is present, I don't want to tread on what they do, so I gotta shelve /RDM's Enspell novelty. If I have a WHM in PT, I don't need to tread on what they do completely either, so /RDM or /BLM would be more optimal for that situation. If I have a SMN, I can opt to play main healer and let them do the avatar melee thing while also putting up Aerial Armor or Earthen Ward, again meaning I don't really have to use Accession.

For times i need to do WHM-ish things, but I'm not /WHM, Accession covers those things well. I don't have to do AoE Phalanx/Blink/Stoneskin as a rule, that's just silly and robs me of three charges off the bat.

[Tsrwedge]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Addendom: Black only consumes a strategem charge once - and only once. It lasts for about an hour after activated.

In my experience, it'll last until Dark Arts wears - up to two hours.

[Malacite]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

>. > for once I agree 100% with BBQ there in that SCH is beautifully well crafted as a versatile mage. Perhaps even more so than RDM (minus the melee aspect)

[Sevv]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

<--- After all this time still hasn't found a single reason to spend merits on group II spells.

The SCH things is aggravating, but it only shows (yet again) how half-assed RDM group II merits are. Nothing new really.

It is not that you don't have a reason it is that you are too lazy.

[Raydeus]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

It is not that you don't have a reason it is that you are too lazy.

How exactly did you come to that conclusion? It will be a very interesting read.

[Murphie]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Maybe he was just kidding? Crazy concept, I know.

[Raydeus]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Irony is a beautiful thing.

[Murphie]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

If only people misused it and hit behind it less.

[Sevv]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

How exactly did you come to that conclusion? It will be a very interesting read.

Because you never would merit with me on kujata ; ;

[Karinya]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

In my experience, it'll last until Dark Arts wears - up to two hours.

Or 30 seconds, if that's how soon you have to change to Light Arts. Arts changing is the real restriction on addendum duration.

And since you can't access Accession without Light Arts, you're not going to be dropping T4 nukes and phalanxga at the same time.

Non-SCH look at all SCH's new spells and stratagems and assume that they're always available all the time. They're not. Changing arts frequently makes it very costly to access addendum spells and the other stratagems only affect one spell per charge (which is once per minute at 70 and longer before then).

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Ice Mage your on crack. seriously man stfu for once.

The irony kills.

Para 2 sucks
Slow 2 sucks
Phalanx 2 sucks
Blind 2 sucks
Bio 3 Sucks
Dia 3 sucks

Also if you look back at my posts I say slow is the only one that is worth it @ 1 point because it gives you a 100% effect of slow no variables just slow.

You just killed logic and kicked sand over its grave; Slow II sucks but worth it at one point? Er, yeah. (No, there's no logic to this. Don't bother.)

By the way, Slow II's effect is variable--the potency depends on the difference between the caster's MND and the target's MND, with higher floor than Slow I. Plus, higher the merit level on Slow II, the higher the base/floor effect.

Your imaginary "no variables" idea aside, Slow II's best property is the ability to prevent haste buff. That's one less thing to dispel--turning those nasty, utusemi eating haste buff into something even less harmless than a Colibri's Morsel Snatch.

The other nice thing about Slow II is that it's possible for a properly geared RDM to exceed the effect of Hojo: Ni's effect with it. That offloads one thing from NIN, allowing them to concentrate on tanking. (Blind II can also exceed Kurayami: Ni, but people are not counting on evasion for tanking really hard critters.)

Phalanx 2 is Highley effective if its used properly, that means putting it up prior to WS's. etc and is one of the most useful tools I have as RDM.

Seriously, saying Phalanx II "sucks" in the same post calling it "Highley effect" completely violates logic. Unless "Highley" means something else than what I think it does?

BLM can out DoT our BIO3 with BIO2 further proving our merits are shit.

The only thing this statement proves is your ignorance. BLM can hit 8 HP/tick with Bio II; RDM/SCH with enough gear can hit 9 HP/tick with Bio III.

Add what Icemage said about why Bio III is really used.

Unless you have 330 enfeebling your not sticking slow or para or blind without ES, making our group 2 merits shit.

Ever have three RDMs at Byakko? I assure you even when it takes ES to land Slow II, it's far, far, far from worthless--with a little coordination, ES Slow II can cover most of a fight you'd bring multiple RDMs to anyway.

Plus, it lands nicely on Proto-Omega or was that Ultima? Or both? My memory is kinda fuzzy on that. Bunch of other critters, too, on my AF + cheapish AH enfeebling set. (We're talking about NQ Elite Beret and Spider Torque here, not Enfeebling Torque, Beret +1, and most definitely no Enfeebling Earring.)

Ice Mage. You going to close this thread too because people disagree with you, maybe ill post up my test numbers from my para vs para 2 to show you that the teir 2 abilities suck ass.

He closed the thread because you failed to understand what the evidence showed regarding casting and melee swings, even after repeated attempt to explain to you by multiple people. (It showed you were completely wrong, in case you're still wondering.)

Did you ever owe up to the "AGI affect melee swing speed" nonsense statement or however you phrased it? Are you even capable of admit being wrong?!

SCH is the new support job, if I see a sch in my group even think about dropping a teir 4 before giving party ss/blink/phalanx they are getting booted as fast as a rdm who dosent enfeeble or refresh.

Good grief. I hope you never take up Scholar. Bad enough to have you as a Red Mage spreading misinformation and misunderstanding--the damage you can do to a young job like Scholar is a horror beyond imagination.

* * *

Might as well explain why I thought it's ironic, since it's unlikely you'd discover it on your own: Icemage knows EVERYTHING I listed. Heck, EVERYONE (except you) on this forum depends on his knowledge and expertise, especially when it comes to the jobs he plays.

You? Mr "Slow 2 sucks" Mageo? You won't come close to measuring up to Icemage with a tall hat and platform shoes.

[Ziero]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

• DRG's Angons are stronger than Acid Bolts, so RNG and THFs shouldn't use Acid Bolts, ever.
• WHM can cure better, so RDM should never cure, ever.
• MNKs are better with H2H, so only MNKs should use H2H.
• Elvaan have the most HP and VIT, so only Elvaan should be PLDs.
• BRD and COR AoE refresh, so RDM never should Refresh.
• SMN and BRD can hastega, so RDM and WHM should never haste.

Would just like to point out some things

• Acid Bolts are gained at a lower lvl and can be spammed easier giving them a useful advantage over Angons.
• Their curing ability is pretty much the same since they can both reach cap.
• Mainly, outside of low lvl situations and lolpup, only Mnks DO use h2h. And a punching Mnk will have no effects on your ability to attack (unless he kills it before you can swing)
• Galka have the most HP and Vit, Elvaan have the most Str and Mnd. Elvaan also have more MP, which combined with their Higher Mnd makes for better casting ability.
• Brd need two spells to match Refresh's potency and Cor needs lucky rolls to be as strong/stronger.
• Smn's haste is weaker in potency and duration and Brd's haste (which again needs two songs to equal the spell) can stack with the spell

However, Sch's can cast Phalanx on others at an earlier lvl, hitting more people, with a more potent version, for similar MP costs. Which is completely different from all the other situations you mentioned. Your list shows things that are similar, but an obvious balance can be seen. With Phalanxga, Sch's can do it earlier, stronger, wider and not lose out on very much. And seeing as it's stronger then the Rdm's version, there really is no reason the Rdm should cast it if you have a Sch in the party. Just like how people prefer Whm or Rdm haste over Smn's Hastega.

Non-SCH look at all SCH's new spells and stratagems and assume that they're always available all the time. They're not. Changing arts frequently makes it very costly to access addendum spells and the other stratagems only affect one spell per charge (which is once per minute at 70 and longer before then).

Honestly, I see the act of switching to be a bigger detriment to casting Phalanxga(or other enhance-ga spells) then the one minute recast time on Charges at endgame. A one minute timer is common with buffs iirc, Stoneskin recast is a minute, Smn's BPs is a minute so a Sch's charge timer isn't too bad on it's own. And unless your party is an extremely dire situation, using and waiting a minute for a charge to...well...recharge shouldn't be too much of a strain, assuming you're already in Light Arts stance. Sch's seem to be big fans of AoEing Stonskin, so why not throw a Phalanx on top of that if you can spare a charge?

[MrMageo]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Regardless of the fact of you you consider my irony, the fact is our teir 2 merits suck, sure you can manipulate them by useing more merits, or altering gear like you always have with other enfeebles. This is a given. I shouldnt be required to notify people on how merits work at level 75. Is it some how my requirement to post alongside every slow or para comment (also manipulated by mnd). I assumed this was a given fact, shit ive been carrying int and mnd sets since I was level 10. Anyone who has any knowledge of the job has. Through your whole post of selective quotes you still have not swayed me that any of our merits are worth it. Bio 3 again given and if you didnt use your select quoting, you would see the damage factor is another point. 30's of effect @ lvl 1 woopeee, thats enough time to cast 2-3 spells and reapply at a much steeper cost then bio 2. Hence its not worth it and it sucks. As for my endgame LS I am one of 2 RDM's one goes /WHM I go /BLM. Thats 1 ES every 10 minutes, and me solely enfeebling the mob. As for slow 2 being nice to remove haste, It's called dispell, and its cheaper to cast. Phalanx being good to use when you use it properly, which never presents itself its cheaper to just refresh the whm and let them use pro V and regen. Our teir 2 merits are a collection of last minuet pity spells, bottom barrel trash given to SE's most forgotten and disregarded job. Since ToAU SE has slowly been dismantling RDM, instead of a Hybrid Mage that could melee and use spells, they now have a Hybrid Melee mage (blu) and a Hybrid mage mage (Sch). Essentially everything RDM could do has been divide up between these 2 jobs, whch can do it all better. Except for enfeebling, but how practical is its usage outside of ES for most and 1 enfeeble every 10 minutes. Our merits suck, the job is a joke, and all we got left that is our own is fucking refresh the god damn spell that started it all.