Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

[Malacite]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

My point was about how retarded merit spells were. Why not just make rare scrolls that are hard to obtain? (Like KSNM for instance).


RDM's are always preaching about versatility, well, having all 6 of those spells would have rocked, and freed up category 2 merits for some meaningful JA's and traits. (I'm looking at YOU Protectra V... what a joke of a merit.)

Contrary of BBQ's self contrived notion that I'm somehow against the SCH update ('cause I'm not) I'm criticizing SE for their apparent lack of insight here. RDM ought to get something to balance this out, like lowering Phalanx II's cost as others have said, or maybe boosting it's potency a bit more (not taking the option away from SCH). It's hardly fair for another job to be able to do something another has to spend merits on so easily.

[Icemage]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Contrary of BBQ's self contrived notion that I'm somehow against the SCH update ('cause I'm not) I'm criticizing SE for their apparent lack of insight here. RDM ought to get something to balance this out, like lowering Phalanx II's cost as others have said, or maybe boosting it's potency a bit more (not taking the option away from SCH). It's hardly fair for another job to be able to do something another has to spend merits on so easily.

Eh... you're under the mistaken impression that all merits have to be equally good. That's a nice ideal, but the truth is that Red Mage doesn't have the most useless merits in the game, not by a longshot.

I don't think a decrease in the MP cost of the various RDM merit spells would be out of place, and a buff to Phalanx II's potency wouldn't really hurt either - at least make it as good as standard Phalanx level 3 for the higher cost.

Even so, there are other jobs that have much more to complain about than RDM.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Contrary of BBQ's self contrived notion that I'm somehow against the SCH update ('cause I'm not) I'm criticizing SE for their apparent lack of insight here. RDM ought to get something to balance this out, like lowering Phalanx II's cost as others have said, or maybe boosting it's potency a bit more (not taking the option away from SCH). It's hardly fair for another job to be able to do something another has to spend merits on so easily.

• Puppetmaster had to merit Ventriloquy to redirect enmity from himself to the Automation or vice-versa; BST gets Snarl at 45, allowing the to move all thier enmity to a jug pet.
• BST has to merit to terrorize at 75; BLU learns Jettetura (Terror) in its 40s.
• COR learns Wizard's Roll in its late 50s; BLU learns Memento Mori, which is more potent and can also be AoE-ed with merits.
• SMN got Noctoshield before RDM got Group II merits with Phalanx II.
• BRD had AoE Regen originally, now COR and SCH and do it, too.
• BRD's Toubador is bested in duration by COR's Phantom Roll.
• SAM had Store TP before DNC had Reverse Flourish.

I could go on and on all day about this, pointing out job abilities that beat merits or job abilities that are comprable to others, but if you really want something to complain about, I'll point out that all of THF's worthwhile exclusives are still available under subjob and no other noteworthy damage abilities are available to THFs themselves.

Really just tired of hearing this "Woe is RDM" bullshit. Other jobs need fixes more than RDM does and I'll be disappointed in SE if they get around to fixing RDM or BRD before they get around to everyone else.

I could sit here and complain about my RNG group one merits, but I just suck it up and merit Rapid Shot and Unlimited shot anyway. I could have merrited Recycle to save some gil, but went with full Flashy and Snapshot merits instead. Not every one put merits into Loaded Deck like I did on COR, but given I didn't merit Phantom Roll Recast its probably best I extend my duration a somewhat comprable amount. Troubador and Nightengale are way more worthwhile than BRD's meritable -/+ enmity songs, shit, 90% of BRDs playlist was vendor trash to start with.

My point is that merits aren't supposed to give you the best of everything, they're there to enhance you for endgame and to customize your character to your tastes. I'm about to drop a lot of merits made for BRD in favor of maxing out what my SCH could be doing at endgame, that's a lot of work lost, but I don't mind it one bit, I don't really play a BRD anymore.

[MrMageo]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

See here's the thing - RDM and SMN bitched and bitched and bitched that they were invited to do nothing but heal. So SE said, "Hey, lets make some new jobs that are good at healing so those guys don't have to."

Acctuallt SCH and DNC qere created because there are never enough healers to go around. SE invented them so parties could be self sufficent without the need of rdm/whm/smn or brd/cor for that matter. It wasnt to appease RDM's we still have haste and refresh and as far as I can remember I havent been invited to a party since 60, that hasnt come with the attached (Refresh) (Can I Have it) or more often now (Haste) (Can I Have it).

As for the OP for Phalanx 2 to be effective as Phlanxga from SCH it costs 150,000 limit points or about 8 hours @ 20K/hr. With the SCH strategem bufff essentially they only need to use at most 2 charges to keep Phalanx up entireley for the duration of the battle. Regardless if only 1 person needs it or not It is still more MP efficent then Phalanx 2.

As for the rest of the merit spells for the RDM they are decent at best, to receive a decent effect for the MP Cost you need minimum of level 2 in each of the spells, this means you can only unlock 2 abilities in hopes to get effect. They are all pretty pathetic and really arent worth time in the long run. Slow 2 is probably the most effective because it gives a gaurunteed effect. Para 2 is even more wishy washy then para 1 at an outrageous MP cost and isnt as effective as para 1 until its third point. Bio and Dia until minimum 2 points into them are hardly worth the MP cost, 30's just dosent cut it. Blind 2 is hard to say because its hard to test unless you have someone willing to take an hour or 2 for PVP but if its anything like blind 1 then its usefulness is lacking.

Basically your looking at something like this

Para: 3
Slow: 1
Dia: 2
Bio: 2
Phalanx: 6
Blind: 1

that puts you at 15 upgrades to even have a hope from a decent effect from the spells. 9 over the limit. So you need to look where to cut, you will generally keep Para and slow so that puts you at 4, now you can cut the shit outta phalanx and make it a paper shield, or you can take Bio or dia. Not to mention the average RDM at endgame wont be sticking anyspells on HNM/GODs etc, without ES, so every 10 minutes they get to use 1 spell. And they shouldnt be casting merit spells in the more prominent Merit parties (ie. colibri) as they are MP inefficent for the 45s-60s (at most) a mob will last.

Now in comparision to some other clashes that get spells, BLM for instance can unlock any number of its AM2 for a decent effect from all @ 1 point. BLM has the luxury of cramming on more gear to buff these spells up, and even without equipment these spells are still the strongest in the game. SMN can unlock each of the Meritable BP's for a similar resault to the BLM.

You can say what you want about RDM merit spells, they are genuinely ineffective and not worth the MP, or Time spent on them. Thats what it boils down to, MP efficency. Slow and Para cost a fraction of their teir 2 levels and give nearly the same effect. Bio 2 and Dia 2 are more cost effective given the length of time they last vs the teir 3's. Blind 2 is Blind, and Phalanx is a paper sheild that unless maxed out is not worth the MP, or time spent getting it.

Its not as though SCH stepped on our toes, but I think SE needs to rework the RDM merits, as they are junk considering how ineffective they are. They need to either make them more MP efficent, more potent, longer duration. Or alternitivley rework the entire Merit set for RDM, giving us things that may be more usefull, such as Bind,Grav 2; Sleep 3 repose 2; Refresh 2 Haste 2.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Acctuallt SCH and DNC qere created because there are never enough healers to go around.

I don't buy that logic for one second.

What does an efficient MP user highly capable of healing mean to other mages?

It means other mages can focus on thier specialization.

What does a melee job that can use its TP to cure frontliners mean to the WHM and mages on the backline?

MP savings and the ability to put that MP to other uses.

SCH and DNC were added to allow other jobs to focus on thier specialization provided the jobs were present in a PT. If no SCH or DNC in PT, along with no WHM, a RDM or SMN is likely going to be a main healer again. But if there's a SCH, RDM and SMN can focus on thier specializations while SCH steps forward and handles main healing. If a WHM and SCH are in PT, SCH can shift to nuking, enfeebling and other means of support WHM cannot provide.

If the intention was to make up for a lack of healers all around the game, its a goal that fails in the long run because once the main push of DNC and SCHs get to 75, those that don't want to level a healer-type job still won't level one. The goal was to add healer-type jobs to the game that freed up other jobs roles and help other jobs become more self-sufficient by being able to use DNC and SCH as subjobs.

[MrMageo]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Really just tired of hearing this "Woe is RDM" bullshit. Other jobs need fixes more than RDM does and I'll be disappointed in SE if they get around to fixing RDM or BRD before they get around to everyone else.

Well were getting tired of you comming in here thinking you know what the RDM community needs or wants or feels, you gave up on RDM, remember when it was level 65 (IIRC). You dont know what RDM needs/Wants or how its members feel. Just as much as I dont know why a RNG dosent pull, or a COR dosent use corsairs roll. You look at RDM from the outside, you see what some do in a battle and carry it over to a personal opinion that it works good. FACT BRD can only play BRD songs, no other job has this luxury. FACT COR is only one who can use rolls no one else has this Luxury. You always praise your COR and BRD jobs and refer to them without fail. However outside of subable traits to 37, they have and will always have their own set of abilities that no other job can use. RDM on the other hand outside of its useless merit spells shares spells with every mage job in the game (ex. BLU/SMN). Our only native spells outside of refresh are all usable while Subbed. However SCH can AoE them all, specifically in this arguement phalanx.

As much as you want to consider everything is all hunky dory with RDM, quite frankly it is not. Its by no means as bad off as say PUP, or BST, but its not as perfect as you will it to be. RDM has been pushed into the roll of a one trick pony, we are effectively Haste/Refresh, no better then BRD. Yet we have access to many other aspects, that we can't use. In that effect yes RDM is flawed. It is to apealing to take the job from WHM/SCH for curring because of it MP longevity. Of course you probably dont mind because you like having a RDM on the backline bailing you out on COR or BRD. WHM can't Spare MP to sleep links etc you may get. RDM may not be flawed to you because you like the rest of the community see it working perfectly well in its pigeon hole. In that respect it is not. However I bring up again, you have never quarterbacked a merit party on RDM, you have never been responsible for Kiting a God, or HNM, you don't know jack all about endgame RDM besides what you have seen others do. You don't know what our abilities do despite what you read. So you can take your Special Case BRD/COR and go back to your little corner, because RDM does have flaws, but because you dont have a 75 RDM with craptacular merits, YOU DONT KNOW JACK.
______________________________

SCH and DNC were added to allow other jobs to focus on thier specialization provided the jobs were present in a PT. If no SCH or DNC in PT, along with no WHM, a RDM or SMN is likely going to be a main healer again. But if there's a SCH, RDM and SMN can focus on thier specializations while SCH steps forward and handles main healing. If a WHM and SCH are in PT, SCH and shift to nuking, enfeebling and other means of support WHM cannot provide.

Thats all fine and dandy but let me check the last time I ws in a group with more then 1 healer, hmmmm, oh right pre ToA camps. Your not getting a SCH/WHM/RDM into the same group unless your pre toa in which case you wont be having group 2 merits. So your logic is flawed. In late game parties its RDM onry, and RDM's more and more say Main Heal no thanks, SMN's more and more say main heal no thanks. So that leaves DNC and SCH to fill in the curative roll. (Considering the community has shunned WHM i dont blame them for not partying)

[Akashimo]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

I could go on and on all day about this, pointing out job abilities that beat merits or job abilities that are comprable to others, but if you really want something to complain about, I'll point out that all of THF's worthwhile exclusives are still available under subjob and no other noteworthy damage abilities are available to THFs themselves.

Really just tired of hearing this "Woe is RDM" bullshit. Other jobs need fixes more than RDM does and I'll be disappointed in SE if they get around to fixing RDM or BRD before they get around to everyone else.

QFT.

RDM has been pushed into the roll of a one trick pony, we are effectively Haste/Refresh, no better then BRD

Then stop taking invites for that. Say {Aht Urhgan} {camp} = PT{no thanks.}
Go to a different job for merits, make a pty so you can enfeeble or campaign.

YOU DONT KNOW JACK.

Ummm....i'm gonna used what someone used against me and say, do you even read what you type?

[BurningPanther]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Does every thread in here devolve into what everyone else feels RDM does or doesn't deserve nowadays? Has it really come to that?

If you feel RDM doesn't deserve anything, or doesn't need anything new, then you have nothing to add here, as simple as that.

Other jobs are far more needing of fixes? Well bully for them! Let those other jobs discuss the fixes they need. But after the surgeon is finished with the internally bleeding patient, the one with the broken leg still needs tending to.

You feel RDMs are bitchy? Well damn then, just what is bitching about the bitching?




All this should just remind the devs(if it's even brought to their attention), the tricky juggling act that is job balancing. They came along and introduced a new job--it had no place. They gave it a bevy of new features to increase it's value, and now the same features sported by older jobs are wildly inefficient by comparison.

There are three potential fixes, really:

Scenario A: Leave SCH's version as-is, and simply equalize RDM and SMN's versions' effort to the reward involved, namely dropping the MP cost for Noctoshield, dropping MP cost and scrolling(or lowering merit requirements) for Phalanx 2. That way SCH's version is still good, SMN and RDM's version cost what they are worth.

Scenario B: Leave SCH's as-is, equalize RDM and SMN's reward to the effort, namely buffing the potency of Noctoshield and Phalanx 2 making the potency visibly better than Accession/Phalanx, accordant to the MP, effort in getting such.

Scenario C: Nerf SCH's version(It should be noted I'm firmly opposed to this scenario).



What amazes me is this strange myopia Square exhibits with respect to old jobs(pre-ToAU), not named SAM and WAR. They bear this reticence in turning around and re-tooling previous jobs, and it's certainly not because those old jobs were perfect. They are behind on something you almost certainly have to do every time a new job is introduced. RDM and SMN have been paying out for the Phalanx effect for years. SMN has always been paying more for less product, as has RDM with Phalanx 2. With the 10 Mar update, it's just become apparent.

But then, it's still early yet. There's still time for them to look back and fix their mistake.

[MrMageo]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

I don't take invites for ToA personally but I am one of 750+ RDM's on my server. The Fact is 6/6 of our group 2 merits blow ass (regardless of where you camp or what you do). You can have 2 at most that will function on a barely par level with their teir 1 counterparts (in terms of MP efficiency, time and effect).

I do read what I post and the fact is I can post my opinion on matters such as teir 2 merits and phalanxga vs phalanx 2. Its not whining as BBQ would put it, it is stating fact. I take it upon myself to defend the community against BBQ's constant "I hate when RDM boo-hoo". BBQ has no personal experience with Group 2 RDM merits, yet comes off as if he/she does. Look at BBQ's jobs he/she always compares alongside RDM, BRD/COR/RNG all single purpose jobs, none of which offer the utility of RDM. None of which share spells/abilities with another job. BBQ does not understand why this post was made only assuming its another whine thread. Its assumed because as a BRD he/she does not have another job that can more effectivley use its spells, as a COR he/she does not have another job taking the rolls and using them more effectivley, as a RNG he/she does not have another job with an equal amount of damage output through RA. BBQ quit lvling RDM @ 65 for the reason i assumed long ago, he/she didnt appreciate how the community, viewed, or used RDM. However having quit RDM BBQ expects everyone else to want to play it the way he/she did not want to.

I know full well the potential of our merits and how it is when another job can take one of your trademark spells and use it more effectivley than you. I can also sympathize for the WHM's who have been shot in the arm, in terms of DV, SCH is now more effective this way too. BBQ instead tries to focus on the fact that we bring this to light, through a humerous comic, and assumes its a bitch fest. Every RDM endgame topic BBQ has something to say inregards to how it is wrong, or whiney, however BBQ has no idea how it works because he/she hasnt been there. He/She has BRD/COR/RNG not RDM. He/She quit RDM and swears by backline RDM only (my assumed reason for the quiting). Personally I am tired of BBQ thinking she/he knows how the job works at endgame, she/he has never experinced outside of what ppl have said, and what he/she has seen people do. I dont go into BRD/COR/RNG rooms and spout off about stuff I dont have experience in. I dont go into the BRD/COR/RNG rooms and cause disruption in a topic because it goes against the opinion the community has on said job. (ie. RDM/DNC) I dont flame people because they share a different opinion on something other than the "Norm". Even in BBQ's rants about his/her job's he/she gets flamed and defensive like everyone else. Cor who dosent ever use Corsair roll because its not his/her problem if they dont have an xp ring or sanction. A RNG who never pulls because it takes away from his/her damage. A BRD who never casts Madrigal because its nothis/her responsibility to provide an ACC boost. Yet BBQ comes into various forums and berates people because they want to melee, or not cure. In a recent post of mine (Post Update My Opinion Changed) I told of how I didnt main heal and instead SC,MB,Enfeeble and didnt use Haste/Refresh. I was called lazy and a leech because I let the SMN do all that, BBQ is a hypocrit, it is ok from him/her to shirk his/her, job duties, but when another job does it, it is wrong, and gimp. When BBQ post something regarding my job like any other person I will call him/her on it. BBQ quit RDM because he/she didnt like the duties of the job, the workload etc. But expects all RDM's to do said duties. While at the same time not doing What a BRD/COR are designed to do, party support through buffs, (including Madrigal, and Corsair Roll), and not pulling on RNG (which always has a rng weapon/WS). He/she claims it is whining, however I think he/she is afraid of losing the one job that carries him/her to the next merit point.

[Pteryx]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Scenario A: Leave SCH's version as-is, and simply equalize RDM and SMN's versions' effort to the reward involved, namely dropping the MP cost for Noctoshield, dropping MP cost and scrolling(or lowering merit requirements) for Phalanx 2. That way SCH's version is still good, SMN and RDM's version cost what they are worth.

Scenario B: Leave SCH's as-is, equalize RDM and SMN's reward to the effort, namely buffing the potency of Noctoshield and Phalanx 2 making the potency visibly better than Accession/Phalanx, accordant to the MP, effort in getting such.

Scenario C: Nerf SCH's version(It should be noted I'm firmly opposed to this scenario).

Personally, I'd use approach A for Noctoshield and approach B for Phalanx II, though not necessarily to the extents suggested. That's the least disruptive approach, and makes the two abilities better for different things. Note that I would not mind if SCH was still the best at this in the end; they just shouldn't be the best by this much. -- Pteryx

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

It really wasn't about being made to main heal and not being able to melee - I could get those things from any other job I levelled, but about how I enjoyed playing the game.

I like a certain amount of varied activity, RDM felt too reptitive.
I like to solo without a lot of things tying soloablity down, like buffing.
I like jobs with Job Abilities, RDM doesn't have many.
I levelled it for a static, just to help friends. I got screwed over.
I knew that at that time, for endgame, BRD would completely overshadow RDM and jobs I might actually enjoy, I didn't like that idea, so I shifted focus jobs I enjoyed and tossed both aside.

I shouldn't have to explain my reasons for quitting at all, none of that diminishes what I know of RDM, why its invited and how the game at large works by function, balance and community.

Most of the griping about RDM comes a lack of knowledge/understanding regarding balance and community. RDMs want to have thier cake and eat it to while every other job has to make sacrifices they don't want to make just to make EXP PTs work.

No one forces a RDM to merit Phalanx II and its still worth having even if a SCH or SMN can AoE it because those jobs might not always be there to do it. Relying on one job to do a particular thing is the inherent problem of the game (or it was).

RDM, BRD and WHM's heads grew really large because they were requisite to making most PTs work. WHM got what was coming to it in ToA, now RDM and BRD are getting thier turn - you're no longer requisite to making a PT work, PTs can surivive and do well without them.

Dunno about you, but I like that RDM, BRD, COR, SCH, BLU and SMN being able to dispel more than I just liked having RDM and BRD being able to. It used to be that way - it sucked.

The real issue is preserving what distinguishes a job without harming the uniqueness of the job, but community needs must also be considered.

Lack of independance was a huge issue for many jobs. /DNC solves a lot of those issues and /SCH helps jobs that could solo with /WHM solo a bit better at higher level. /SCH also covers CORs and BRDs for MP when Evoker's or Ballad is down and they're buffing melees. DRG/SCH gets absolutely no downtime now.

And yet, RDMs think SCH, BRD and COR should be collectively punished just because Refresh doesn't stack with Sublimation. I think that's really stupid, because Refresh stacking with Sublimation not only overpowers RDM, but affecting how sublimation works with other forms of Refresh hurts COR and BRD, they have no means of recovering MP (other than Sanction/Sigil) when Evoker's/Ballad are down. And I can say from experience that most RDMs don't bother refreshing those two, much less hasting either.

Hate to say it kids, RDM is not longer the belle of the ball, but then, neither is bard. You'll have to work for invites just like everyone else since you're no longer requisite.

[MrMageo]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

RDM, BRD and WHM's heads grew really large because they were requisite to making most PTs work. WHM got what was coming to it in ToA, now RDM and BRD are getting thier turn - you're no longer requisite to making a PT work, PTs can surivive and do well without them.

I was hoping you would say something like this.

So essentially your saying now that SCH is around that RDM, WHM arent needed to keep the party party running, kinda like when i said

Acctuallt SCH and DNC qere created because there are never enough healers to go around. SE invented them so parties could be self sufficent without the need of rdm/whm/smn or brd/cor for that matter

Boy im glad that whole statement defied logic as you put it.

And yet, RDMs think SCH, BRD and COR should be collectively punished just because Refresh doesn't stack with Sublimation. I think that's really stupid, because Refresh stacking with Sublimation not only overpowers RDM, but affecting how sublimation works with other forms of Refresh hurts COR and BRD, they have no means of recovering MP (other than Sanction/Sigil) when Evoker's/Ballad are down. And I can say from experience that most RDMs don't bother refreshing those two, much less hasting either.

I personally could care less about sublimation stacking with refresh. It give me the option to refresh or not. I hvae been in 6 parties now with a" sublimator" and all 6 Times I didnt cast refresh on them and the party ran fine. All sublimation has done is cut down my work load and is alowing me to focus on other thins I can be doing to better help the party.

Hate to say it kids, RDM is not longer the belle of the ball, but then, neither is bard. You'll have to work for invites just like everyone else since you're no longer requisite.

I can agree with you here and its about time, I am frankly sick and tired of the free loading RDM, BRD, COR who milk their "free Ticket" to parties. Hopefully this will thin the heard a little bit and seperate the players that give us a bad name from the players that acctually strive to accomplish the most out of their job, and do everything they can to make the party work.


As for my shots against your reason for quiting RDM, I appologize, I repeatedly stated it for effect. The fact is none of your jobs have had abilities they worked hard to get stripped by a job that can do it better, cheaper, and sooner. So you dont know what its like dumping 4-8 hours into 1 spell only to have SE come along and give it to someone else. Which is he main basis of the topic. As for your continual assault against RDM and SMN, you BRD's are probably the most whiney, bitchfest class in the game but we can take it to PM's if you want to discuss that.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Personally, I'd use approach A for Noctoshield and approach B for Phalanx II, though not necessarily to the extents suggested. That's the least disruptive approach, and makes the two abilities better for different things. Note that I would not mind if SCH was still the best at this in the end; they just shouldn't be the best by this much. -- Pteryx

Ah, a Scenario D, it would seem.

I like it, but I'd be happy with Scenarios A and B, too.

[MrMageo]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Personally Id Prefer that Para/Slow/Blind 2 became spells between 60-75 and were replaced By Gravity, Refresh 2(a self target for 5mp/tick), and meteor (or some other type of High Damage non elemental Nuke we could call our own)

Phalanx 2 is good in the endgame things since you wont ever have a SCH in the tank party where a rdm would be, they will be put with the BLM's for the weather benefits. As far as for parties, it will be rare that a SCH and RDM will be in the same party where merits are involved, and if that is the case it is one less spell we need to cast.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

(or some other type of High Damage non elemental Nuke we could call our own)

No. Just no.

since you wont ever have a SCH in the tank party where a rdm would be, they will be put with the BLM's for the weather benefits.

Now for a moment, I thought to myself "well, why wouldn't you keep a SCH in the tank party? It's not as though there'll be only one in the alliance." Then I thought "actually, yeah, there just might be."

I think it's time S-E took another look at intra-alliance dynamics, maybe relaxing the limits on who is targetable with what in an alliance. If you have a BLM party, wouldn't you want the BRD or RDM in place of the SCH, for Refresh? Which would be more important then, weather effects or mana? It would be beneficial to be able to target certain spells and abilities outside one's own party, but still within your alliance.

That way, if the 5-BLM party needed the RDM, they still wouldn't be shorted on weather effects, since there'd still be a SCH somewhere in the alliance hooking them up. Meanwhile, said SCH might be in the tank party, making good with the Phalanxga/Stoneskinga.