Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

[Malacite]

Yet another reason proving what a stupid idea merit spells were.


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Way to go square, way to go... (also didn't know Notcoshield sucked that hard. Yay more fuel for the fire!)

[MrMageo]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

lol thats awesome and it sucks cuz its true

[nanatsu]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

ouch

[Karinya]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Merit spells weren't a bad idea, overall. Dia III, Paralyze II and Slow II are all good and useful. Some people like Bio III too. Blind II is too random to be useful and Phalanx II is kinda weak, but that's hardly evidence that the whole merit system is bad.

Anyway, casting phalanx on the whole party doesn't matter if only one person is getting hit. *And* it uses a JA, which phalanx II doesn't. Phalanx has a duration of what, about 2 min? So to keep it up you'd be using half your stratagems just for that (at level 70 - worse if you're actually doing it at level 66 and have a 1:20 stratagem recharge). (Also not considering casting time.)

I wouldn't mind if SE adjusted the effectiveness numbers on phalanx II - I might even consider getting it, then. But since phalanx is mainly a spell that's effective against easy prey or lower, I don't see how much difference it makes whether you can cast it on other people or not.

[Sevv]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

oh no sch has aoe spells! good thing they can aoe refresh oh wait...

[BurningPanther]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

No, they don't have AoE Refresh. But Accession offering AoE Phalanx, almost ten levels earlier, at roughly the same potency and mana cost as a tier 2 merit? You can't say to me there's nothing wrong there.

Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that SCH can Accession Phalanx. More power to them. The the comic was right about one thing, Square was rather miserly with Phalanx 2, rather miserly with a lot of Group 2 options.

Phalanx 2 was always a lame spell. The 10 Mar 07 update was the eye opener.

[Icemage]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

I don't really see what the issue is, to be honest. It's not so very often that you want/need to cast Phalanx on an entire party (there's Salvage.. and... er... yeah, just pretty much Salvage).

That said, the MP cost of Phalanx II needs to come down. It's too expensive for what it does, considering its reduced potency compared to standard Phalanx.


Icemage

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Phalanx 2 was always a lame spell.

Phalanx II is a bit underpowered, but not exactly useless. It's a counterpart to Regen; when a tank is getting hit frequently, it does its magic. No one would likely credit any of the existing Phalanx or Regen effect for winning a fight, but those spells do add safety margins.

Ever seen Byakko go feral with triple attack right after Diaga? I've seen tanks drop to less than 50 HP from that. (Also seen them drop dead, of course.) Even a Lv.1 Phalanx II can make a difference there.

* * *

Scholars probably have better use for Stratagems than putting Phalanx on tank for most fights, too. I've certainly no plan to remove my Lv.2 Phalanx II anytime soon.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Well hell, the same could be said about a lot of things. No one would credit Aquaveil for winning a fight, but it offers a safety margin. Pointing out the little things it does out of the corner of your eye is nitpicking.

The matter of it is, a SMN can do what Phalanx 2 level one can, well before Phalanx 2 is an option(granted, you'd be hard-pressed to get the SMN to spend the MP, but if the need is there...), if that same SMN really applies himself, he could possibly get the same effect as level 2. And SCH? They get the full effect right off, for the entire party, for the same MP. What better use for a Stratagem could a SCH have than giving to the entire party an effect I could only give to one for similar MP?

It's a matter of effort vs. reward, and Phalanx 2 comes up short. SCH's update just made obvious for everyone else.

[Sevv]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

See the point is You don't have to get Phalanx II

[emeraldpearl]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

pretty much sucks for those who merited phalanx II

[Mhurron]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

See the point is You don't have to get Phalanx II

Which is why I don't understand why people complain. You now just distribute those merits to something you do want/need.

Phalanx II could still be useful if people would party with less then 6 people.

[Neomage]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

The update for Scholar was vastly needed, and while I don't want to see anything taken away from SCH, I would like to see other mages get something to compensate for the fact that SCH gained so many of their trademark skills. Sure they can't nuke as well, heal as effectively or do everything as fast as other mages, but it is more along the lines that they can nuke and heal and buff while still getting their own tricks like Phalanxga and Helix spells that grinds my nerves somewhat. I am not saying that SCH should be nerfed, but rather WHM and BLM getting a somewhat higher Conserve MP trait, Phalanx II made more viable, and maybe a few perks that makes the job better at what it does, now that they are not the only job to do it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

See here's the thing - RDM and SMN bitched and bitched and bitched that they were invited to do nothing but heal. So SE said, "Hey, lets make some new jobs that are good at healing so those guys don't have to."

Hello Dancer, Hello Scholar.

Yay, now RDM can focus other things. Yay, now SMN can focus more on summoning.

But, oops, RDM and SMN don't want to build thier own PTs. And, damn, even though a smaller PT structure would welcome what they want, they still want to do ToA camps over RoZ, CoP or WotG camps. Oh well, thier loss, ToA PTs only need one mage per PT and SCH can easily fill that spot OR, hey, they can go participate in manaburns!

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Smartassing aside, I fail to see the point of this topic, other than its bitching about what other jobs can do. The fallacy is that people like Malacite sit here and thing SCH can just do that all the time. Its a nice option, but its not always what I want to do, just like I don't always want to AoE Enspells because that overwrites what a DNC's Sambas can do. If I AoE much of anything in a PT, its Stoneskin, Protect and Shell. Stoneskin alone minimizes the damage most /NIN melee would take and beneficial to tanks and the backline as well. A PLD can almost take four hits before Stoneskin goes down and that's a fair bit of MP savings in my book, its also directly beneficial to myself, negating the DoT penalty of Sublimation

To even do half of what I can do on SCH, I have to use up a JA, my options are also limited by subjobs. /RDM clearly offers SCH the best of everything at 68+, but til then, SCH has a lot of trade offs while RDM can change thier subjob to just about anything and retain the main job's functions. Only major change RDM has to make for a sub for a spell they don't have is /DRK, /NIN or /BLU. I can't AoE anything /NIN or /BLU do.

Oh, and I can be B skill Elemental or B skill Enhancing, I can't be both at the same time. In order to be effective and efficient at healing, Light Arts must be active, to be effective a nuking or Dark magic, Dark Arts must be active. I only get to decide once a minute which mode I can be.

I won't disagree that WHM, BLM and RDM deserve some exclusives, but I'm completely disappointed that people can't observe how other jobs have been updated, buffed and still act like a bitter child who didn't get what he wanted NOW.

[Ziero]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

While all that is true, a Sch's ability to stick a stronger Phalanx on the entire Party then a Rdm can on a *single* party member for almost the same MP is a bit ridiculous. It's an easy fix, make Phalanx II more potent. If Rdm had the option to make it noticably stronger then normal Phalanx cast by a Sch then it wouldn't be as big of a problem. However this could also be seen as an overpowerment to Rdm which is why the original Phalanx II wasn't as strong as the first spell.

Regardless, merit abilities and spells are a good idea imo and should be added upon and fleshed out more. The idea that we're allowed to create some customization into our very jobs itself at endgame is a good thing to me, even if cases for "optimization" still exist in those setups.