Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

[Icemage]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

personally ive got 1 merit in each thing and dont care, they all suck monkey dick

Yes, but we've already established you hate playing RDM. Actually, I'm shocked you even bothered spending merits on Phalanx II since it doesn't benefit your melee damage in any way whatsoever.

Any RDM who doesn't realize how powerful Slow II is doesn't deserve much consideration when speaking on the topic.

That's not the point (to me anyway) Icemage. The point is SE is stepping on job's toes more and more and in ways that are fairly harsh. Yes, SCH has to choose which set of skills to use at any given time but the fact that it can nuke almost as well as a BLM and at the same time cast dispel is stepping on RDM's toes a bit, while Addendum: White is a steeltoed boot kick in the balls to WHM.

What's next, PLD (finally) getting provoke or a JA that essentially does the same thing? I'm all for spreading out abilities, but SE's gotta be more careful IMO. We're slowly creeping towards the point of nixing jobs into niche scenarios.

I do think SCH is creeping into a few too many niches with this update, but the presence of Phalanxga via Accession is one of the LEAST intrusive. Addendum: White and Addendum: Black are both much more threatening to WHMs and BLMs respectively than Accession/Phalanx is to RDM.

For that matter, the presence of Sublimation hurts RDM much more than Phalanxga.

To get back to what I was saying though, chances are, at end-game you've got a Red Mage in your tank party; adding Phalanx II doesn't affect your job balance or strategies much - it's just a nice extra.

To facilitate Phalanxga via Scholar + Accession, you have to juggle your job mix around and really think about what you're including in your tank party. I could see a setup like NIN NIN SCH WHM BRD BRD being useful in this context, but under those circumstances you wouldn't want a Red Mage in the Scholar slot anyway.


Icemage

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

I see what both Malacite and Icemage are saying now.

I don't feel like explaining it, but I understand both viewpoints.

[Let me add that Addendum is so awesome, for the SOLE fact that SCHs get Stona.]

Honestly, I think that SE looked at the current meta-game and decided to build these jobs from the group up instead of applying them to niches later, and SCH, DNC and PUP are all performing well.

People wanted to type-cast Dancer into a tanking role, but SE effectively fizzled that concept [lol, btw].

The problem with the older jobs is that if SE does any more "nerfs" the community at large is going to be mad... So they have no choice but to upgrade everyone.

I'm interested in what SMNs think about SCH AOE buffing ability...

Are RDMs (and only a select few, at that..) the only one's complaining?

Honestly, look at SCH as a whole... It can, roughly, perform about 85-95% as capable as the main jobs, and it can do it while being 50-60% more efficient.

We should be friggin loving life right about now.

I think BBQ, in the midst of one of his rants - that was targeted at people he deems "Princess," which is only the very outspoken majority, btw - made a good point that the only "potential" competition that will be born will be from people who are excited about mage jobs in the first place and are going to level it.

Out of my 4 irl friends that play on my server, all of them agree that SCH is an awesome job, but none of them are going to level it.

They want the glitz and glamor without the struggle of leveling. [Hence, why they love talking about all the "cool shit" (rolling my eyes) that I can do as a RDM, but none of them want to level it.. No.. They'd rather just pay for and play as Renarudo when I'm taking one of my many breaks in the game.]

So don't expect a mass exodus of melee to level SCH, because only mage-minded people will be doing that.

Honestly.

RDMs have nothing to complain about.

We won't be losing a spot end-game, because the SCH that you see in the alliance usually was already coming to the event as a WHM, BLM, RDM, etc in the first place...

And now they are still able to perform just about as efficiently as they were, but with more versatility.

A SCH that's in the tank pt is going to be expected to perform healing/buffing duties, whereas a SCH in the BLM pt will act accordingly as well.

They just need less baby-sitting.

Good Lord, RDMs should be ECSTATIC.

What's wrong with you people?

[MrMageo]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Ice Mage your on crack. seriously man stfu for once.

Para 2 sucks
Slow 2 sucks
Phalanx 2 sucks
Blind 2 sucks
Bio 3 Sucks
Dia 3 sucks

I have already stated in order to get one to be worth a damn you need to put multiple merits in it, level 2-3 for it to be worth any thing. That leaves you 2-3 points that can go to make another spell slightly less shitty. Also if you look back at my posts I say slow is the only one that is worth it @ 1 point because it gives you a 100% effect of slow no variables just slow. The rest are over priced and ineffective.

Phalanx 2 is Highley effective if its used properly, that means putting it up prior to WS's. etc and is one of the most useful tools I have as RDM. However the arguement is not the use of Phalanx or other merits its that SCH can do it more effectivley. It dosent hurt as as you continually think is what is being said. It steps on our toes. At least SMN's was high MP cost for less effect, instead SCH wins in both aspects.

As for sublimation hurting us, your out of your mind. Sublimation dosent effect RDM in any way what so ever. If you get into a party with a sumbimator you simply ask refresh or sublimation, problem solved.

As for addendum, again your of your rocker, with the exception of teir 4's SCH gains nothing it couldnt gain from subbing whm or blm. Not to mention it runs on the same timer as you say makes using Phalanxga unreasonable.

SCH can use phalanxga further proving our teir 2 merits are shit. BLM can out DoT our BIO3 with BIO2 further proving our merits are shit. Unless you have 330 enfeebling your not sticking slow or para or blind without ES, making our group 2 merits shit. Thats the only negatives RDM has is our god awful shity group 2 merits. Hopefully SE just gets rid of them entirely, for the love of god they suck ass. Almost every other job gets a respectable amount from their group 2 merits, RDM we get a whopping kick to the balls.

Ice Mage. You going to close this thread too because people disagree with you, maybe ill post up my test numbers from my para vs para 2 to show you that the teir 2 abilities suck ass.

SCH is the new support job, if I see a sch in my group even think about dropping a teir 4 before giving party ss/blink/phalanx they are getting booted as fast as a rdm who dosent enfeeble or refresh.

[Murphie]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

/popcorn

[Raydeus]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

<--- After all this time still hasn't found a single reason to spend merits on group II spells.

The SCH things is aggravating, but it only shows (yet again) how half-assed RDM group II merits are. Nothing new really.

[Celeal]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

*cough*

Level both RDM and SCH to 75.... and be happy

/end-of-hijack

[Callisto]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

I lul'd at the comic, but I don't see the big issue. Honestly I'm glad someone else can AoE a stronger Phalanx than me, now I can toss those 2 merit slots into a stronger Para 2 and Blind 2 instead of spending a decent-sized chunk of MP on a spell that in all honesty isn't super useful.

Although F%^@^@$%@%$!@#$ at me redoing my Group 2's for the 3rd or 4th time, lol.
______________________________

*cough*

Level both RDM and SCH to 75.... and be happy

/end-of-hijack

That's the path I was taking on it as well, hell if anything I'm psyched that I'm going to be pimped as shit as SCH since I already have capped skills and a bunch of Enhancing/Enfeebling/Elemental gear from RDM.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

I really find this whole thing kinda childish.

"SCH can Phalanxga, so meritting Phalanx II isn't worth it"

Following this logic:

• DRG's Angons are stronger than Acid Bolts, so RNG and THFs shouldn't use Acid Bolts, ever.
• WHM can cure better, so RDM should never cure, ever.
• MNKs are better with H2H, so only MNKs should use H2H.
• Elvaan have the most HP and VIT, so only Elvaan should be PLDs.
• BRD and COR AoE refresh, so RDM never should Refresh.
• SMN and BRD can hastega, so RDM and WHM should never haste.

Really, some of you RDMs make my brain hurt. If you don't have Phalanx II at all, you lose out the tank PT to the RDM that does. SCHs and SMNs aren't always going to be around to AoE Phalnanx.

If it helps you perform better, merit it, stop crying about the cost of the spell, RDM is still the most MP-efficient job of this game. SCH is just a close second now. If you don't merit Phalanx II because you have a SCH that can offer the Accession version, that makes sense; but if you're not going to level SCH at all and refuse to merit Phalanx II for your RDM just because SCH and do it better, I think you're a moron.

[Akashimo]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Following this logic:
DRG's Angons are stronger than Acid Bolts, so RNG and THFs shouldn't use Acid Bolts, ever.
WHM can cure better, so RDM should never cure, ever.
MNKs are better with H2H, so only MNKs should use H2H.
Elvaan have the most HP and VIT, so only Elvaan should be PLDs.
BRD and COR AoE refresh, so RDM never should Refresh.
SMN and BRD can hastega, so RDM and WHM should never haste

Fixed in blue, and i like what is green ;3

[Mhurron]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Shut up Aka.

[Electricity Gone Human]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

I stopped caring.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Fixed it before you did

[Jaice]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

/popcorn

/join

I'm not high enough level to even worry about meriting anything yet... but as my friends keep pointing out, is there any real reason to get huffy over a game that we have no control in what content they add? It can be debated into the dirt but in the end some people will like the spell and some will be aggrivated that their merits blow.

[Akashimo]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

Fixed it before you did

/cry.

[Karinya]

Re: Phalanx II we hardly knew ye

While not completely accurate, in a vacuum, you're correct--but it only drives my point further.
If indeed Phalanx just doesn't matter that much, then yeah, the SCH has better things to do with his Accession.

But wait! If that's the case, then the RDM too would have better things to spend on merits.

All RDM merit spells are worthless in merit, as it is currently done. Every single one of them. If you have MP to burn you might bother casting Dia III, but don't fool yourself into thinking it's actually worth the cost.

Personally, I don't have a problem with that; meriting just so you can merit some more is pointless and silly anyway. The point of merits is to help in HNMs and endgame instances (dynamis, limbus, salvage etc.) Most of the RDM merit spells actually *are* good for that - situationally, even phalanx II. (But the most situationally narrow ones won't be bought and used because of the overall cap. If you could max them all, it might be worth the effort to do so, but it's definitely not worth giving up Slow II or Paralyze II for Blind II... or IMO, Phalanx II.)

The minor interruption and charge you lose on Accession seems like a minor loss to extend the spell to the entire party. That's not just the tank, but anyone in the party with any tanking potential that doesn't involve shadows or Evasion.

Which is usually just the tank. WARs and SAMs can have good def, if they gear for it, but they generally don't.

Anyway, I don't think you've played SCH much if you think a charge is a "minor loss". Stratagems define the job. Having more is great. Having less is bad. Having less because you used them for something that doesn't provide much benefit in the first place is stupid.

If AoE Phalanx is really that useless, then a targetable Phalanx 2 is no different. And not worth meriting.

Well, I don't have it merited, and don't plan to. But at least it doesn't require burning JAs to cast. And since you rarely care about more than 1 target and *very* rarely care about more than 2 targets, having to cast it separately on every person really isn't a big deal.

I don't like it mainly because the effect is so small compared to Para/Slow (although the fact that it's not RDM unique does enter into it a bit). But it isn't subject to resists like they are, so there's arguably a role for it, and RDM certainly has the most convenient and useful version for 1 or 2 targets.

The issue is a standard having been re-established that must be addressed.

As a paladin, this is where I have to go laugh my ass off. You want a standard being re-established? Try having the standard amount of damage for a tank to take in a party become ZERO. And the MP cost necessary to achieve that? Also zero. Oh, and they do more damage than you do too.

Phalanxga probably doesn't even make the top ten list of potential balance problems. It's certainly nowhere near notorious problems that have been unadjusted for years.

This is also a job that doesn't have haste, and their refresh substitute isn't as good as the real thing and can't be cast on others. They have to be good at SOMETHING. AoEing more often than most jobs is one of those things.