RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

[Icemage]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

I don't care about the results lol, I just want it easier to read the damn screenshots.

Here, is this better?




Icemage

[MrMageo]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

Now I dont want to sound like I am back pedling. But in the arguement we are having my method provides less delay interuption every time (as opposed to 100% on certain spells). As you showed with stoneskin, if you had cast it after youratack you would have

0,-7,-6,-5,-4,-3,-2,-1,0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16

however you had a cast of

0, - 7, -6, -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15

now i believe it is possible to acheive "0" delay interuption but I cant figure out how to squeeze it. In any case this will put you at 14 seconds of spell castng saving 2 seconds over "joe" who cast after his sword swing instead of your 15 for being on it.

-7, -6, -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0 ,1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

now look at dia which is shown to work like this

-2,-1 0 , 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8,

Now my dia records from diagram 3 show it was begun casting @ :29 Just before my attack and it took abotu 1 second to cast, delay to :31 on timer. there is now 6 seconds remaining before the next attack. Bam 6 seconds after dia was record ed as landed and 8 seconds after the initial hit, I hit again, resaulting in no loss of time.

Plug it in for any spell since we know it works for your version of stoneskin, now your version dia from your first dia diagram. Lets look at it.

1 Attack :43
Dia cast :44
Dia stick :50
2 attack :54

so lets look at your Dia

0, 1, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11

you dia finishes @ :50 which is 6 seconds from cast to stick, which puts you at a total of 11. you it at :54 from :43

You lost out on your 3 seconds because you attacked before cating then waited 2 seconds to cast. The timer for attack reset and was counting during your spell cast resaulting in the carry over of time on the end like normally happens.

Regardless of this unending debate using this in battles has helped me shave precious seconds of my time, while not always getting it at 100% effect, 1-2 seconds from normally casting a spell, is 1-2 seconds more I have to cast something else. At the end of the fight all those 1-2 saved seconds really add up and make you A more effective spell caster from the front line. I have provided the tools to doing it and have given what I assume to be a pretty good starting platform.

Also for the record, Fast Cast does not change the delay caused of a spell, only the rate at which is goes off. The animation still carries on after the spell has been cast. which would result in skewed numbers. As much as you want to say time and animations dont mean anything, so far in the comparison of dia our spell times and casting are identical. The only reason I fit it in I already described. As for the guide itself, I will revise the section with this because it is very vague in regards to it. I may put it in an advanced trick section for meleeing along with the SS trick. Thanks for your diligent effort to try and make me looks stupid I have acctually enjoyed practiing this, and getting better at. I plan to soon compile a List of delay differentials between spells castin After initial attack, casting durring initial attack, casting slightly prior ti initial attack.

I know right now just from what you have posted and I have posted

dia before attack = 0
dia after attack = +11

we also know stoneskin is

before attack :14
on attack : 15
after attack :16

Not trying o sound like a broken record but it does work.

[Icemage]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

Are you blind? I showed 14 seconds, 15 seconds, and 16 seconds - doing the EXACT SAME THING each time. It's all down to how much lag an individual message accumulates on its way to your client.


Icemage

[Callisto]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

Here, is this better?

Infinitely, thank you.

[Icemage]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

we also know stoneskin is

before attack :14
on attack : 15
after attack :16

Not trying o sound like a broken record but it does work.

*cough*bullshit*cough*




Icemage

[MrMageo]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

you seriously expect me to believe you have a 8 second client delay
If that is true then your post mean nothing to me.

All casting stoneskin at that point did was caused your previous attack window to get pushed back. 7 seconds

:51 ATK (0s)
:58 SS (7 second cast)
:59 (without casting SS atk would be here)
:06 ATK (15s +1/-1 for lag (crit hit logs etc)(also serves as 0's in next round)
:06 gains effect of SS receiveing an effect does not reset dealy other wise we would need a major over haul of party dynamics
:14 ATK (8s)

so um cough bullshit you still didnt cast it right, right in the middle causes full effect of 16 seconds. Like Ive said at least once on each of the last 3 pages.

[Murphie]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

Keep digging, MrMageo. You'll hit China soon enough.

[Mhurron]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

I'm totally sold. The complete lack of evidence has shown me that all of Icemage's screen shots are wrong or didn't happen.

[Murphie]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

Forget pics or it didn't happen, now it's pics and it still didn't happen.

[Icemage]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

you seriously expect me to believe you have a 8 second client delay
If that is true then your post mean nothing to me.

All casting stoneskin at that point did was caused your previous attack window to get pushed back. 7 seconds

:51 ATK (0s)
:58 SS (7 second cast)
:59 (without casting SS atk would be here)
:06 ATK (15s +1/-1 for lag (crit hit logs etc)(also serves as 0's in next round)
:06 gains effect of SS receiveing an effect does not reset dealy other wise we would need a major over haul of party dynamics
:14 ATK (8s)

so um cough bullshit you still didnt cast it right, right in the middle causes full effect of 16 seconds. Like Ive said at least once on each of the last 3 pages.

This is reality calling. As you have failed to see my commentary (several times) that the client chatlog is horrendously unreliable. Messages appear "when they get there" and not a moment sooner. That's why the chatlog shows me cancelling Stoneskin before it even recognized that I had the effect.

Casting Stoneskin at any time is going to push your attack delay back by several seconds, period. We can argue about whether that delay is 6 seconds, 7 seconds, or 8 seconds, but it is ALWAYS THERE.


Icemage

[LadyKiKi]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

Joyeuse or Excalibur? I need advice. This guide isn't telling.

[Vyuru]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

From this:

Spell casting does in no way pause, stop, skip the attack timer. If you cast a 3 second spell between the 6 second window, you will still swing at the 6 second interval. If you cast a 4 second spell and a 3 second spell you are at 7 seconds, and will attack at the 8th second of the interval.

To this:

If you look at my photos I clearly show where it didn't work. You have to cast over the animation. Not slightly after it not slightly before it.

Bit of a difference between those two statements isn't there MrMageo? I'd call that backpedaling myself.



Can we cut the BS please?

And yes I feel entitled to call this BS especially with statements like:

When they dont sub SAM they are wiff machines. Missing an attack on them really hurts 16 seconds of no damage (in the above examples weapon choice.) Not tryig to over glorify RDM melee but a consistent 80% ACC over 6 second intervals (less if not dual weild) is more effective than a slightly more accurate drk who misses once and is doing no damage for 16 seconds.(prolly why DRKs dont get parties me thinks)

Amongst others.

And yes, Ziero pointed the above out first but I got it in quotes

[MrMageo]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

Im not saying its not in this sense but what is better a 14 second round or 16 second ? I have just moved myself up2 seconds compared to the person who casts after he hits. What I am arguing is there a certain spells which ou can cram into the cast on the first attack, making their delay non factor. for example our dia casting I got min inside 8 seconds and cast your took the full 8 seconds + 3 to cast when you cast it after, meaning I am 3 seconds ahead of you for my next attack.

Lets look at my SS resaults



This one I get a net total of 15 seconds from casting on my attack, like you did.



This one I cast In the middle Like you did on your last example and got 16 seconds.



Here I did my Cast trick and got 14 seconds. Which as far as I can tell atm Is as low as you can go with this cast. The 6 second diferential is added on to the end of the spell and since it goes over 8 seconds my attack is then delayed to 14.

7 second cast - 1 second for opening the fight with it = 6 second casting differential

8 delay + 6 second casting = 14 seconds

alternitvely ill plug dia into that

1 second cast - 1 second for opening fight with it = 0 + 8 = 8 (when I swung) meaning no delay interference caused by the spell

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

I don't care about the results lol,

It's Mr. "AGI increases attack speed" Mageo vs. Icemage on simple, easily verifiable game mechanism issue. The result was all but preordained.

Unless you mean the number of posts MrMageo will use in his futile attempt to argue Icemage is wrong? That's a harder figure to nail down.

[Vyuru]

Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

Does anyone else notice that while MrMageo is hitting the bats, said bats aren't hitting back?

Filters? Conspiracy?

>.>