Update March 08 Your opinion

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

So, wait: according to you, Red Mages are fine as is, and Blue Mages are the ones who need help? And that we would be encroaching upon their turf, despite the painfully obvious cause of the "You want a melee-mage, go to BLU" arguments?

What kind of screwed up logic is that?

Blue Mages have it fine as is. Red Mages haven't had an update, at all, ever, since Refresh and Convert (excluding all-job updates, which were all jokes for RDM). And S-E even acknowledged they would like to see more Red Mages on the front line than now.

As for the OP, whether or not Red Mages get much of anything in this next update is still mostly in the air. However, as is, the probability an update doesn't do anything for Red Mage in particular (all-job updates obviously excluded) is approximately equal to the probability that the sun will rise tomorrow.

BLU has some problems as far as the nuking side goes. Burst Affinity is a joke - BLU elemental magic is hardly as effective as the mob counterparts, even with use of mage gear. The high MP cost of thier best physical magic is also a strain on thier ability to DD at endgame levels. Cloak, Sanction Refresh and set spell Auto Refresh only go so far.

BRDs refuse to refresh them, and hopefully we'll see the AoE-to-single target update adjust that, but they'll always have that problem with CORs and like DRKs, they're lowest on the RDM's refresh list.

Either the elemental magic needs to be more effective or SE needs to lower the cost on Physical Blue Magic to give BLUs a bit more endurance than they had. More or less, BLU's problem is the same as SMN's - MP endurance.

Don't let the A- in Sword fool you, BLU's core damage is through spells and to keep up with other DDs, they gotta spam them. The high cost of spells hurts quite a bit.

[MrMageo]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

Well thanks YM congratulations. You just blew up a simple question and answer thread into another crap shoot topic of RDM melee, RD vs BLU, like i said at the start if you want to debate these issues simply do to one of the other 13000 topics found on the internet and post your shit there. We all know about Blue Mge we all know about RDM. Now is there anyway i can block people from posting on here cuz i have 3 in mind id like to do it to, or at least delete there posts so this dosent spin out of control like refresh II did last week.

[Pteryx]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

and like DRKs, they're lowest on the RDM's refresh list.

Not on my Refresh list. In fact, on my list -- you know, the one we've got stickied -- BLUs are #4 out of 9. They go through MP way too fast not to Refresh fairly early. -- Pteryx

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

Now is there anyway i can block people from posting on here cuz i have 3 in mind id like to do it to, or at least delete there posts so this dosent spin out of control like refresh II did last week.

You can blacklist members you don't like, but you cannot prevent any of us from having an opinion on a topic here on the forums. People have a right to opinion whether you like it or not.

And as far as I remember, you made a turn for the worse in the Refresh II thread. YM just brought up an aside to this topic and its been addressed.

Additionally, you made a topic about RDM getting an update, we know where that discussion would lead since it concerns RDM melee. Plenty of RDMs that still can't get over the addition of BLU.

[MrMageo]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

Not on my Refresh list. In fact, on my list -- you know, the one we've got stickied -- BLUs are #4 out of 9. They go through MP way too fast not to Refresh fairly early. -- Pteryx

Well if you cant beat em join em.

Nor on mine

ME>PLD>WHM=SMN=SCH>BLU>DRK>BLM>/WHM (BRD/CPR etc)

I suppose its a valid point you bring up. Im not going to blist someone because they said something. As for the turn for the worst it was acctually a combonation of yourself and myself that sunk that thread. I get really pig headed when my knowledge of something is debatd by someone who dosent have the knowledge of the topic.

As for BLU vs RDM its not a viable comparison.

Blue Mage- Uses MP to devaste an nemy using Physical and Magical Spells
Red Mage- Uses MP to defend and wear enemies down over time
Blue Mage- Uses Melee to assist in overall Damage and increase power of spells with Affinity
Red Mage- Uses Melee to further the DoT of an enemy. TP is used to assist in damage with SC's, or to regain MPusing energy drain(dagger)

I accept Blue as another Job in this game but not as something to throw around to say if you want to melee as RDM lvl BLU. The Jobs are vastly different. I guess you could compare them to DRK and PLD, where BLU is the offensive side of magic(DRK) and RDM isthe defensive side(PLD).

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

You can blacklist members you don't like, but you cannot prevent any of us from having an opinion on a topic here on the forums. People have a right to opinion whether you like it or not.

And as far as I remember, you made a turn for the worse in the Refresh II thread. YM just brought up an aside to this topic and its been addressed.

Ah, the parts of your post I can agree with. I do love them so.

(Personally, ever since the Refresh II thread, I merely /blist'd MrMageo.)

Additionally, you made a topic about RDM getting an update, we know where that discussion would lead since it concerns RDM melee. Plenty of RDMs that still can't get over the addition of BLU.

Ah, the part of your post I can disagree with. Many an argument were made from parts such as these.

Blue Mage has nothing to do with Red Mage wanting to melee. Which is why we get so upset every time you bring it up, and, thus, is why we seem to be upset at Blue Mage itself (and kind of are). Red Mage should never equal Blue Mage, and I think everybody can accept that.

That doesn't mean they can't both be frontline mages. Their styles are just so radically different, you're practically comparing apples and oranges here.

The only thing we don't like about Blue Mage is the community just loves to shove it in to Red Mages' faces. "That's BLU; go lvl BLU," "Hey, doesn't BLU do that already? I'm not sure," "You can't do it, BLU does already; you'd be encroaching on their turf."

I would like to point out that Red Mage was here first, and, yet, hasn't actually seen many more updates than Blue Mage has. And, yet, people are all acting like we want to steal from them.

I'll have you know all we want is what was promised to us long before Blue Mages hit the concept art. And we've been wanting it for just as long, as well.

[MrMageo]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

Thats not entirely true YM, we werent ever really promised anything involving melee prior to ToA raping our job. Pre ToA i used to melee in parties to SC with the third wheel and Sams and MB off them, as well as back up heal. Typical parties were WHM,BLM,RDM a Tank and 2x DD.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

Ah, the part of your post I can disagree with. Many an argument were made from parts such as these.

Blue Mage has nothing to do with Red Mage wanting to melee. Which is why we get so upset every time you bring it up, and, thus, is why we seem to be upset at Blue Mage itself (and kind of are). Red Mage should never equal Blue Mage, and I think everybody can accept that.

That doesn't mean they can't both be frontline mages. Their styles are just so radically different, you're practically comparing apples and oranges here.

The only thing we don't like about Blue Mage is the community just loves to shove it in to Red Mages' faces. "That's BLU; go lvl BLU," "Hey, doesn't BLU do that already? I'm not sure," "You can't do it, BLU does already; you'd be encroaching on their turf."

I would like to point out that Red Mage was here first, and, yet, hasn't actually seen many more updates than Blue Mage has. And, yet, people are all acting like we want to steal from them.

I'll have you know all we want is what was promised to us long before Blue Mages hit the concept art. And we've been wanting it for just as long, as well.

SE never lied about what the promised for RDM, RDM got updated, its role changed before the community and the community does not care for RDMs meleeing in thier PTs. Guess what? Your job is not alone in that issue.

Its really not SE's problem what the community does with a job. SE can not like it, they can try to influence us to do something else, but if they don't feel the job itself needs to change, then the community will use the jobs as they see fit and if the RDMs conform to what the community wants in pick up groups against IT++ or TP burns, then RDMs have no one but themselves to blame for being healers in PTs.

It is within your power to form your own PTs.
It is within your power to go to other camps.
It is within your power to seek like-minded players.
It is within your power to form small PTs.
It is NOT within your power to make us invite you for something we don't want you to do.

Some days I don't want to do what I get invited to do. I don't take the PTs that want me to do it because I don't have to.

[MrMageo]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

It is within your power to form your own PTs.
It is within your power to go to other camps.
It is within your power to seek like-minded players.
It is within your power to form small PTs.
It is NOT within yout power to make us invite you for something we don't want you to do.

Some days I don't want to do what I get invited to do. I don't take the PTs that want me to do it because I don't have to.

No offense BBQ but that is the first thing i think i agree with you 100% on. I have been saying that for a long time. The community molded RDM and the players bent over and took it. I wont lie ive taken my easy 20K xp parties ive taken my hard fought 8K/gr xp parties both have their time and place and if you dont like [Main] [Healing] [No Thanks!], [Skill Chain]+[Magic Burst] [Party] [Yes, Please!]

those 2 sayings are your friends to not get asked to parties you dont like. Often times if you put JP/NA with that Japanese players will grab you. But you best know all about skill chains and magic bursting or you will be dropped.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

SE never lied about what the promised for RDM

I never said they did. In fact, I constantly hope that they didn't.

RDM got updated

When? Four years ago?

Guess what? Your job is not alone in that issue.

I never said that Red Mage was alone in this issue.

Its really not SE's problem what the community does with a job. SE can not like it, they can try to influence us to do something else, but if they don't feel the job itself needs to change, then the community will use the jobs as they see fit and if the RDMs conform to what the community wants in pick up groups against IT++ or TP burns, then RDMs have no one but themselves to blame for being healers in PTs.

It is within your power to form your own PTs.
It is within your power to go to other camps.
It is within your power to seek like-minded players.
It is within your power to form small PTs.
It is NOT within yout power to make us invite you for something we don't want you to do.

Some days I don't want to do what I get invited to do. I don't take the PTs that want me to do it because I don't have to.

You know what? I'm kind of getting tired of this "don't take invites you don't want" argument, because I don't. You're telling me to do things I already do.

And, really, I think this old post sums up the rest of the population beautifully:

We can spout noble personal philosophies and pretty ideals all we please, but so long as we don't argue the reality of the matter. The reality is that people, like all things, will take the path of least resistance. Even the majority of RDMs.

Hell, when ToAU was first released, nobody saw what would become of RDM. Even I couldn't see the future when my SAM buddy invited me to Bhaflau Thickets, offering the the insane exp rate chaining Puks and the occasional Mamool Ja, with a simple setup of four melees /NIN, a BRD, and myself main healing. Even I couldn't see the soul-sucking, amoral virus the phenomenon was to become.

At any rate, you talk about blaming the RDM community for not taking a stand against main healing, for pigeon-holing RDM in the place it is now. But while the cause is evident, none have any right in placing blame, since we all have a habit of going with the smoothest flow. Better instead to blame the FFXI community at large, for shunning BLM, shunning PLD, pushing WHM to second-choice healer, and eschewing hate management, as well as basic tactics(Skill Chains), in favor of more mindless hacking and slashing to satisfy their parser results.

But hey, don't blame the community at large, right? They're just doing what's most efficient, right?

If it were a simple matter of the game being the choice of the player, of playing RDM as a manner of choice, then I wouldn't have to worry about soloing(my personal choice), and sacrificing the merit-per-hour parties that require I put aside only my self-respect to main heal for them.

Am I comfortable with the fact that playing how I choose might cost me significantly? Actually, I am. I haven't been in a party outside of large-scale events for six months now, and haven't looked back.

However, I have a rather large beef when choosing to play a job as it was intended somehow becomes anathema, while playing it was a watered-down version of another sees boundless reward. A bigger beef still, when people somehow think that's solely the fault in social consciousness of one portion of the community, and don't stop to consider even once that changes in gameplay might have brought about that fault in social consciousness.

Yes, it IS in part the fault of RDMs that complain about backlining, then turn right around and perpetuate it. But don't ignore the blatantly large changes in gameplay that brought us to this point:

RDM's difficulty in credibly contributing to frontline melee damage...

... the imbalance in Healing skill that makes WHM's capability in it easily replaced by RDM...

... the current burn phenomina that that requires so little responsibility in hate management, tactical spell use, and(seemingly) so little effort in healing.

And for the record, while I believe that S-E might be pleased with the overall popularity RDM enjoys, I'd wager against you that they believe it plays at all like they'd intended.

[Murphie]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

So, when is the fact that no one is going to give any ground on either side of this stupid argument going to sink in? It's not worth talking about, because you're all just going around in circles, repeating the same information over and over again, and not convincing anyone of anything.

[Malevolent]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

[quote=Omgwtfbbqkitten;764544]You can blacklist members you don't like, but you cannot prevent any of us from having an opinion on a topic here on the forums. People have a right to opinion whether you like it or not.quote]

When the forum bank system came back wasn't there a way you could use your gil to block a user from posting? I remember seeing something like that...

On topic i think Rdm only RSE would be a plus but not a game breaker...a better sword skill would awesome it would make the Buzzard Tusk usefull. Tier 2 en spells should be a must.

[Murphie]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

RDM only RSE wouldn't be RSE. It would be JSE.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

I gave up on RDM Melee.

My PLD just dinged 70.

[Electricity Gone Human]

Re: Update March 08 Your opinion

Is it me or does most of the job forum section's activity just focus its central attention on RDM? I'm honestly flattered, but damn.

As for BLU vs RDM its not a viable comparison.

Blue Mage- Uses MP to devaste an nemy using Physical and Magical Spells
Red Mage- Uses MP to defend and wear enemies down over time
Blue Mage- Uses Melee to assist in overall Damage and increase power of spells with Affinity
Red Mage- Uses Melee to further the DoT of an enemy. TP is used to assist in damage with SC's, or to regain MPusing energy drain(dagger)

I accept Blue as another Job in this game but not as something to throw around to say if you want to melee as RDM lvl BLU. The Jobs are vastly different. I guess you could compare them to DRK and PLD, where BLU is the offensive side of magic(DRK) and RDM isthe defensive side(PLD).

Quoted for truth. As a Career Red Mage also being a (future) Career Blue Mage...where BLU is the Yin, RDM is the Yang. I couldn't have it any other way.

It is within your power to form your own PTs.
It is within your power to go to other camps.
It is within your power to seek like-minded players.
It is within your power to form small PTs.
It is within your power to EXP in Campaign and solo your Skill caps later.
It is NOT within your power to make us invite you for something we don't want you to do.

Psst! You forgot one.

also, WOOT, 100th post! lulz.