Refresh II

[Aksannyi]

Re: Refresh II

How about yours? Just because someone can, doesn't mean they always will.

Proven by the lolmelee WHMs who don't do anything to save your party's ass in the Dunes.

[Murphie]

Re: Refresh II

Maybe I don't belong in these discussions. I'm happy with RDM* the way it is, and enjoy all of the benefits the job provides. Apparently I'm an aberration. XD

*as well as most other jobs.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Refresh II

Maybe I don't belong in these discussions. I'm happy with RDM* the way it is, and enjoy all of the benefits the job provides. Apparently I'm an aberration. XD

*as well as most other jobs.

You're not the only one Murph, I like RDM as-is. While I wouldn't mind Enlight and Endark just because there's so many dark-based mobs out there, I don't think they're necessary (though they wouldn't be game-breaking, either) and I'm quite content with all RDM has to offer.

I do wish we got a few more Group II merits to play with, though. :/

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Refresh II

Care to elaborate, either in here or another thread, or point me towards a thread that has some good discussion on this issue?

TGM was in agreement with you, I believe.

/em hides behind IfritnoItazura's leg...

/em peeks out and nods her head in agreement...

/em cries "Please don't beat me!!" to Vyuru!

Maybe I don't belong in these discussions. I'm happy with RDM* the way it is, and enjoy all of the benefits the job provides. Apparently I'm an aberration. XD

*as well as most other jobs.

You and me both Murphie!

/em sits down next to Murphie with a big bowl of hot buttered popcorn and a couple of beers.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Refresh II

/em sits down next to Murphie with a big bowl of hot buttered popcorn and a couple of beers.

<Murphie> I like where this is going!

[Murphie]

Re: Refresh II

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Refresh II

Actually, after thinking about it a bit more, don't give a WHM Refresh.

Give them Regain.

Pixies are WHMs and Pixies get it. It would make WHMs much more attractive to the melee PTs and it would be an original spell to give to one job that doesn't presently exist in any job's spell line. Closest thing to it otherwise is Samurai Roll, which is just a Store TP buff (but still sexy).

Or give it to SCH, that works too. It could use another native enhancing magic.

Basically, I'm discussing this sort of idea because... well, that's some of what the discussion is about -- the idea that Refresh was intended to free us up to melee. -- Pteryx

If that was the intention, it failed horribly. The argument is better suited to Phantom Roll Recast and COR. What am I supposed to do with that whole minute in between? I can shoot my gun, dance a little jig or play curebot.

First two sound more fun and the second obseletes the third option in EXP/Merit now.

[Dahc]

Re: Refresh II

What is wrong with the way things Are? Now I know I have a long way to go as far as lvling RDM is conserned and by far am nowhere near capable of experiencing the endgame aspects of FFXI, but from A lvl 57 RDm stand point, besides all the wish list and hope for spells that would probably kill the job any way, I see nothing wrong with the way RDM is set up. If you add more to RDM ability it would take away from some of the other jobs that are meant to fufill those roles. RDM DD what the???? The only time I ever use my sword is when I solo or Duo. With all that goes on in a PTy I have enough to deal with having a Refresh/Haste cycle along with Enfeebling. Why waste the time trying to Melee when I get better use out of using my MP and Convert and help keep the EXP rolling in. As long as you got a pty that sticks to thier role in a pty you sohuld never run out of MP and be albe to keep the pty going.

WHM refesh?? why ? seriously, if anything sub a smn and you got auto refresh trait.

I am in agreeance with Murphie and other of the like that think RDM is fine where it is..... Do I think there are some spells that could use an upgade? Sure in a wish list situation wher nothing is considered and it all comes down to ....... this would be cool to have, but in an actual in-game practicallity Sense, Why? not needed?

Stopp complaining about DD and lvl another job. Never mind what SE writes on thier Website or literature about what RDM job description says. Play the job or don't IF you like RDM you would play it as is IMHO.

[Murphie]

Re: Refresh II

To be fair Dahc, the conversation isn't just about RDM. Also, you're in the best level range for RDM (in my opinion) right now. Some of my favorite times were during that 50-70ish level stretch. Your opinion may change when you get to 75. Then again, it might not.

[Dahc]

Re: Refresh II

I understand that but at to what cost whould A refesh for WHM and a refresh II be for the game play dynamic over all. I read through all the post and alot of what I am seeing is the "RDM can be front line again" type of thing. Why? isn't that why SE added BLU

But I understand the want for better spells, but why give better spells when they can just incoporate better job traits or more Job Abilites for both WHM as well as RDM

At the lvl 50 range for RDM I am truely digging it and I am finding I am coming into my own and becoming more comfortable with being able to do everything that is needed from A RDM. I turely hope that it doesn't change much after 70

[Pteryx]

Re: Refresh II

Actually, after thinking about it a bit more, don't give a WHM Refresh.

Give them Regain.

Pixies are WHMs and Pixies get it. It would make WHMs much more attractive to the melee PTs and it would be an original spell to give to one job that doesn't presently exist in any job's spell line. Closest thing to it otherwise is Samurai Roll, which is just a Store TP buff (but still sexy).

Or give it to SCH, that works too. It could use another native enhancing magic.

That could be interesting, particularly as I find that WHM tends to have too little to do in a party. It wouldn't be totally out of line for SCH either, as one of their themes seems to be effect over time, but I'm less keen on giving them this as it'd make them play just that little bit more like RDM does and I'm hoping to see the two remain distinct.

If that was the intention, it failed horribly.

Oh, I totally agree with you there. Heck, I kinda doubt that was the real intent myself. -- Pteryx
______________________________

I understand that but at to what cost whould A refesh for WHM and a refresh II be for the game play dynamic over all. I read through all the post and alot of what I am seeing is the "RDM can be front line again" type of thing. Why? isn't that why SE added BLU

To be fair, it's not "front line again" so much as "front line at all ever like the description of the job actually promised". I don't think RDM should be as dedicated a melee mage as BLU (and heck, I'm surprised that SE honestly thought we'd push BLU to the back lines with such effective melee-range spells). I do think it shouldn't be completely impractical and completely pointless for us to melee when we, too, are supposed to be "fighter-mages" who have "prowess with the sword" -- and when we have "jack of all trades" written on the can and stabbing stuff is one of the trades we're supposed to be OK at.

And I don't think screwing with Refreshes is wise either. -- Pteryx

[Murphie]

Re: Refresh II

At the lvl 50 range for RDM I am truely digging it and I am finding I am coming into my own and becoming more comfortable with being able to do everything that is needed from A RDM. I turely hope that it doesn't change much after 70

How much it changes will depend a lot on what sort of activities you involve yourself in at that point. There are a lot of options for RDM, but if you limit yourself to only one kind of activity (such as Meripo, for instance) you may feel as though your wings have been clipped a bit.

[Dahc]

Re: Refresh II

To be fair, it's not "front line again" so much as "front line at all ever like the description of the job actually promised". I don't think RDM should be as dedicated a melee mage as BLU (and heck, I'm surprised that SE honestly thought we'd push BLU to the back lines with such effective melee-range spells). I do think it shouldn't be completely impractical and completely pointless for us to melee when we, too, are supposed to be "fighter-mages" who have "prowess with the sword" -- and when we have "jack of all trades" written on the can and stabbing stuff is one of the trades we're supposed to be OK at.

And I don't think screwing with Refreshes is wise either. -- Pteryx

Not saying that melee in different situations wouldn't be nice. I like to melee with my RDM as much as the next guy. But to what extent are you willing to put a pty at risk when it is not wanted nor needed when you got a DD heavy PTY. Melee is cool when it is accepted and it is definately a situational thing when in a pty. But to go from backline to DD in the front line I think that is getting to out of hand with the whole RDM melee issue.

And IMHO Refresh is fine like it is

[Akashimo]

Re: Refresh II

Regain idea, I could dig that.
Same cost as refresh, maybe level. Yeah that might make me get back to back line healer rather than whm/nin in campaign.

Endark/Enlight.
Better idea, super version of dnc's endrain and enaspir
Endark, does half of your hit, converts to mp.
Enlight, does half of your hit, converts to hp.
Level 37 for both, and I'll bet ya blu, drk and pld would make rdm a sub of choice in meripo XD

But alais, given how much is talked here, no way we'd come with a concrete solution to the situation unless we just beefed up all ToAU mobs to spawn babies that make AV look like a walk in the park.

[Lmnop]

Re: Refresh II

pld/rdm would be broken, the other 3 jobs lack an enhancing skill. At least, if it were tied to enhancing skill the way resists are for every other en-and spike effect. Hitting for 40 damage and getting 20 mp back would be more than broken for PLD... (in merits, at least) and I suppose the 9/10th resists would still be 1-5 mp/swing for the other jobs.

The beauty of the Sambas is that their acc isn't linked to a magic skill (I have a feeling their resist rate - "Magic accuracy" - is based off of the swinger's skill rating if not simply total physical accuracy). But that'd be a silly quality for a spell to have. Also, the sambas have 2 caps on their effect: the 1st is (damage dealt/2) and the 2nd is a value derived from the weapon's delay. You pretty much never hit the half-damage cap. Also, quite sure the additional effects of DNC don't do extra damage. I think you'd notice if everyone was doing an extra 20-50% damage. Plus, you don't proc the effect unless you hit for 0 or higher damage...

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RDMs are big on stamina... what if this went another direction and RDMs had to keep themselves from becoming exhausted. I'm thinking something similar to an automaton's Overload. But instead of a pet, it's the RDM themselves. And instead of becoming overloaded and being able to do nothing, it just continues to penalize your cast/recast times. So the more you nuke, the longer it takes to cast nukes. And so varying what you do would help to normalize your casting time.

I'm thinking something that takes a while to build up, but once it starts to become noticeable, begins ramping up quickly in effect. So you could still play healer in a pinch (against something hard enough to have to heal), and you could still become primary damage when low-manning something that just went phys-immune. But you wouldn't be able to keep these roles up full time. The idea is to make it harder to pigeonhole RDM into one and only one task...

Yet another idea that probably isn't a good one. Apparently, I just like to bastardize this topic. I'll excuse myself.