Refresh II

[Akashimo]

Re: Refresh II

Weren't you one of the ones who said that Whm get enough Cure Potency+ stuff already when I mentioned this ages ago? (although my idea was lvl 20 Cure Potency +10%, lvl 40 Cure Potency +15%-20%)

I can't recall, if i did, hesh, what was i thinking.... oh right, i don't. Anyways, that's to balance out with the changes to rdm ect.

With the changes to Signet it's already much easier to exp in the old RoZ/CoP areas with semi TP burn setups, but you don't see people going out and doing it.

Reminds me talking on vent with my hnmls, one of the officers/'leader' complains about getting blm exp when others making a merit party, I suggest, just make a sky pty, he said nope. Hesh, blms + tp burn + sky = fast as colibri camp exp.
Then again, he's a hauby nin >_>; and majority if not all the ppl in the shell are borderline sevv on one side and other side, elitest pricks. Still, you want exp, then say no to a completely real, workable, effective idea cause its not ToAU camp, then stop bitching. /end-rant.

To be fair, there were a couple of times that since they were war/nin it probably saved them, but frankly that was a poor party, and there were many things that happened that just, should not have happened.

War/nins go, "I'm not a god-damn tank!" >_> Seriously. And I wouldn't invite a war that's nin sub cause of that mentality. Show me a war/nin that can out tank, and by tank, keep shadows up while still having the mob face it, and not take a complete beating when it doesn't tp move, and still do dmg while not where a hauby or something that lowers eva >_>;;;

Build a proper party that works together and have the people come with subjobs that support their main job's role and you will be amazed at how much less healing needs to be done.

I've yet to see that in the past 6 months anymore.

Everyone has their own beliefs and I'll stick to mine. I may be a grandmother but when I'm out in public with my 27 yr old daughter people think that I am her sister.

Pics or it didn't happen

Exactly.

[Silent Howler]

Re: Refresh II

Hmmmm self-only refresh hmmmmm.....



I wouldn't want to sit in town searching for parties for weeks without a single invites... Trust me, Rdm's life without refresh to advertise ourselves really sucks. So bad.

Currently, yes. But these changes wouldn't happen without getting a boost to something else, like melee capabilities for example.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Refresh II

Pics or it didn't happen

Exactly.

Meh, I'll see what I can do. I haven't had my picture taken in 5 years. LOL It's funny...I absolutely have to take massive amounts of pictures to record every family gathering yet you won't see me in a single shot. I actually have a slight case of gerontophobia and my family would be really happy if you actually talked me into taking a picture of myself. LOL

[Aksannyi]

Re: Refresh II

TGM that's just like my grandma, she's constantly taking pictures (and her flash is so fucking bright we all know to brace ourselves for it) but she never has anyone take pictures of her. It's like she's afraid to let someone else use her camera.

Though if someone else brings a camera and gets pictures of her, that's okay.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Refresh II

Curse you Itazura, you derailing my argument!

But, seriously, it was totally like you missed the part where I brought in Scholar (and you still told me "GTFI2BLU" ). What makes Red Mage so "powerful" is that it's the only job that can utilize Convert and Refresh. Giving Refresh and a substitute for Convert to Scholar would effectively be taking that away from Red Mage. In return: we get a few tweaks to make us more melee-compatible. You said yourself that we're great at magic and so-so at melee: I want us to be fine at both. Sorry that I can't find a nerf to our magic that is acceptable to you.

[Vyuru]

Re: Refresh II

War/nins go, "I'm not a god-damn tank!" >_> Seriously. And I wouldn't invite a war that's nin sub cause of that mentality.

Both could do that pretty well. However when the Rdm's Sleep II is resisted and cast back on him, and we suddenly get links/other birdies waking up/somehow fighting more than one, and the blue mage refuses to Wild Carrot/Magic Fruit the Rdm, not even the best of warriors can solo a Greater Colibri.

I actually have a slight case of gerontophobia and my family would be really happy if you actually talked me into taking a picture of myself. LOL

I'm the same way, I don't like my picture being taken

Dunno why, I just don't.

Giving Refresh and a substitute for Convert to Scholar would effectively be taking that away from Red Mage. In return: we get a few tweaks to make us more melee-compatible.

But, Rdm will still have Refresh and Convert, and then get a boost to melee.

It doesn't matter if another job gets Refresh and Convert, or Regain for that matter. Rdm will still be as powerfull as it is now, and with a boost to melee it will be even more so. I really don't think it's a good idea.

You guys can do impressive damage to say, VT mobs, but not IT mobs, and that's when your magical abilities start to shine more, and that is more or less the way it should be.

Considering how important to parties that so many people view Rdm to be, I'd rather not see a bunch of Rdm burns because they got enough of a melee boost to be considered a DD.

There are a ton of good swords out there for Rdm to use, the Enhancing Sword is sick DD wise for it's latent and what it does for your enspells. Off hand some other sword (dunno if Joyeuse works off hand or not, but I think the Justice sword does)

Now, is that considered elitist gear? Maybe. But I know enough Rdm who have an Enhancing Sword and darn near every Pld I know has a Justice sword. The Enhancing Sword only costs two million anyway, and melee can pump out alot of gil to get a decent weapon, so why shouldn't Rdm be the same?

My biggest problem is that you are a melee mage class. Being a Dragoon, I share your DD armor choices, so I've had plenty of time to compare my damage to other, simliar DD jobs (Sam/Drk/Gaxe War) who get to wear what I consider the real DD gear. If you want to compete with them it is just not going to happen, especially with a one handed weapon. If you think you should be able to do war/nin 2x axe damage, again, that is just not going to happen (not even going into the axe vs sword IRL arguement)

You've got the tools and the alternate exp camps and party setups already to make yourself more of a DD mage, and to do well as a DD mage, it's up to you, and your other party members, in order to make that happen though.

[Akashimo]

Re: Refresh II

I'm still oping to a Fast Cast to self melee haste abilitiy that also makes spells cast as a one time "enspell"(ability only counts while enganged, and has to be recasted each time you engage a mob) but with a larger resist rate on days that are stronger against the element used and a mob's native ele resists. At the same time, makes a 50% long recast and 50% more mp cost. As for self/party buffs(buffs/cures), follow the same thing, just only resist's you'll see is a weaker cure =x
______________________________

There are a ton of good swords out there for Rdm to use, the Enhancing Sword is sick DD wise for it's latent and what it does for your enspells. Off hand some other sword (dunno if Joyeuse works off hand or not, but I think the Justice sword does)

Now, is that considered elitist gear? Maybe. But I know enough Rdm who have an Enhancing Sword and darn near every Pld I know has a Justice sword. The Enhancing Sword only costs two million anyway, and melee can pump out alot of gil to get a decent weapon, so why shouldn't Rdm be the same?

Justice Sword: O
Joytoy: X
Enhanching Sword: X
Only two mill? Hesh, where ppl get that kind of gil these days?
Still, its gonna take forever for me to get either of those two. T_T
Also, not everyone is near what you've seen on rdms
Hardly any rdm on Seraph has that super enhanching swords.
Most have the joytoys.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Refresh II

You said yourself that we're great at magic and so-so at melee: I want us to be fine at both. Sorry that I can't find a nerf to our magic that is acceptable to you.

The vast majority of the time I parse exp parties with PUP in it, they come out to be the top DD. Not just "good enough", or even "kept up with the rest", but the undisputed number one damage dealer.

If PUPs have trouble getting parties with better than fine damage dealing capability, I don't think being fine at melee'ing would do the job for RDM if the magic side is nerfed much.

* * *

Fundamentally, I see the exp system as (slightly) broken at merit levels; Red Mage itself is very well rounded, and doesn't need anything.

I looked up some common and uncommon merit monsters, and to my surprise none of them contained a single "Tough" on the target list. So, revising my earlier statement, only exp from VT and IT need to be adjusted, and T's can be left alone. (I also saw a lot of disagreements on the exact level of critters between FFXIclopedia and FFXI-Atlas. Urg.)

Given that Lv.75 players have access to merits and are likely to have better gears than even Lv.74 players, I'd like to see two changes for the exp system for Lv.75 only:

1. Lower the base experience points from VTs. (Nothing too dramatic, just 10-40 points off per kill, level depending.) Also, increase the amount of exp from ITs.

2. Extending chain bonus to #6 (or #7), but only if the target is 8 levels or more higher. (i.e. Can only get same bonus as chain#5 if just killed a VT.)


Lvl_Diff___Base_Exp___New_Base Exp
10__________480___________540
9___________440___________490
8___________400___________440
7___________360___________350
6___________320___________290
5___________280___________240
4___________240___________210
(Red is IT.)

For Greater Colibri (Lv.80-81; or 5-6 level difference from players), this works out to be only an 11.67% drop in exp on average if I did the calculations right. For those willing to take on Tavnazian Ram (Lv.82-84; or 7-9 level difference from players), though, it'd mean 6.67% increase in base exp per kill on average.

The biggest flaw I see here is that it makes Hilltrolls (Lv.80-82) even less appetizing (-8.33%), which is too bad since that's a good candidate for the SC+MB style. Given that Hilltrolls are substantially tougher to kill, perhaps it merits its own separate fix in the form of an innate exp bonus like Hippogryphs.

As for the exp chain change, the idea is to keep the current bonus, and add a chain 6 or even a chain 7 level bonus:

Chain___Bonus
0_______1.0
1_______1.2
2_______1.25
3_______1.3
4_______1.4
5_______1.5
6_______1.6 (Only if target is IT; VT caps at #5 bonus)
7_______1.7 (Only if target is IT; VT caps at #5 bonus)
(Red are the proposed extensions.)

Personally, I'm a bit less thrill with this, because the "burnable" Mamool Ja do have a low ITs mixed in, and in fact will result in even better exp/hour with this plan. Then again, it takes better skill and merits and gears to "burn" those compared to Greater Colibri, so it's not so bad--better players getting better exp sounds fair enough.

The magic words here are "Lv.83 monsters"; to get the new bonus, must have Lv.83 or high critters mixed in. Currently, there doesn't seem to be that many of them; Abraxas, Tavnazian Ram, Mamool Ja, and Kindred are the ones I found in a fast search.

To make this part of the idea work fully, may need to extend the level ranges of some monster a bit.

* * *

The changes I propose would not stop or even hinder burn parties at all, but would bring the likes of a WS spam party's exp/hour performance on Greater Colibri and Heraldic Imp a bit more closer to that of a SC+MB party on Abraxas+Tavnazian Rams.

It'd be a little closer to that happy, middle of the road place where people wouldn't refuse a "traditional" party when the burn camps are filled.

* * *

No, it wouldn't do a thing to make melee'ing RDM better in exp parties. There are plenty of other places where a RDM can use a sword and/or a dagger, though, as well as BLU, PLD, THF, and DNC to level if that's not enough, so it's still not a major concern in my book.

[Vyuru]

Re: Refresh II

Given that Hilltrolls are substantially tougher to kill, perhaps it merits its own separate fix in the form of an innate exp bonus like Hippogryphs.

Wait, what? We have monsters with the bonus exp job trait?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Refresh II

Wait, what? We have monsters with the bonus exp job trait?

I guess you can call it a species' trait?

My LS farmed Hippogryphs for their tail feathers once; the alliance was actually getting surprising amount of exp out of it--many people leveled up that day, and some even had multiple merit dings, thanks to the 15% exp boost.

Tavnazian Ram, for example, is a total pain in the butt creature to exp off of. It comes with a whopping 23% exp bonus, however, making it an enticing option for chain#5 when meriting off of the Abraxas.

Due to the dangerous reduce max HP move, having a stunner or two is really beneficial, as well as dedicated healer (i.e. not RDM). It's also safer to SC+MB than WS Spam, IMO, making it the perfect camp for bringing a BLM along with either a WHM or a SCH.

[Lmnop]

Re: Refresh II

Nice breakdown.

@Vyuru: Experience Points - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki

Scroll towards the bottom. There's a chart of all mob types that have inherent exp bonuses.

(btw, next time I take a job past 50 or so, I'm totally exp'ing off variable hares).

[Coinspinner]

Re: Refresh II

Traumatic experiences in Buburimu as newbie put me off hares forever.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Refresh II

I agree...that whirl move + nub mages that don't stand back....*shudders*

[Lmnop]

Re: Refresh II

Beats crabs.

Cone Paralyze and AoE damage, eh? Oh wait, this is the community that fights erucas and flies. Yeah, I'm thinking any party I can convince to take out there will probably consist of friends... party good enough to take 'em. We'll see (next year, when I finally level another job).

Does anyone remember the topic?

[Vyuru]

Re: Refresh II

Does anyone remember the topic?

It was either something about nerfing rdm so that we could give them a boost, or a grandma being mistaken for a 27 year old's hot younger sister, but I could be mistaken.