RDM/DNC rehashed

[Electricity Gone Human]

Re: RDM/DNC rehashed

I tried it out on a few TW mobs when trying to get Exoray Mold for a friend of mine for Genkai 1, and with my constantly-improving melee build, It looked like I wasn't missing a whole lot, especially with no merits. So It looked like the ACC Bonus was good.

I'd have to test it out on some T Mobs sometime though for when I plan to merit on Greater Colibri, since I have a Joyeuse as well.

[Celeal]

Re: RDM/DNC rehashed

I guess the relationship between Drain Samba II and the DD/frontline has a huge effect on RDM/DNC performance. The outcome of Drain Samba is determine by:

1) The party's DD/frontline melee accuacy. If the melee miss the mob, no HP to drain.
2) The mob's resistance on Drain Samba. Higher resistance means less HP to drain for each swing.

Note:
-- Drain Samba II has a cap on Drain amount with Weapon Delay * 8 / 100

If the frontline receive damage exceeds the amount which Drain Samba II can cover, the RDM/DNC will need to cover that with "cure."

In order for Drain Samba to continue, the RDM/DNC needs to keep landing his hits accurately. If the RDM/DNC is casting magic, then he is not hitting with his weapon. So, the logical choice is using Waltz to cure the party.

However, Waltz is TP intensive:
-- Curing Waltz : 20 TP heals one member ~70 HP. According FFXIclopedia, Formula of Curing Waltz: Amount healed=floor((Target's Vit + Caster's Chr)/4+60),1)
-- Divine Waltz : 40 TP heals area for 70~90 HP each member. Same formula as Curing Waltz for each member.
-- Curing Waltz II : 35 TP heals one member for 170 HP. Amount healed=floor((Target's Vit + Caster's Chr)/2+130),1)
-- Healing Waltz : 20 TP for one Erase.

To sum it up, the condition for RDM/DNC to function:
1) The RDM/DNC must have good accuacy, good TP gain.
2) The DD/frontline must be have good accuacy for Drain Samba. Also, the faster the melee swing at the mob (Haste), the better performance for Drain Samba.
3) Drain Samba does not work on Undead. Imps also not good for RDM/DNC.

I guess that is the basic approach for RDM/DNC.

[Propitiation]

Re: RDM/DNC rehashed

The previous five years of RDM being a dedicated caster would be suffucient.

yea because weve had /dnc for 5 years :p its noobs like u dude noobs like u :p

i have all the most ideal gear for my rdm/dnc and it pwns with a pld tank and phalanx II i can main heal/haste the entire party although i dont haste everyone all the time its just too much work. and im talking meriting on birds not mamools or stupid crap like that, imps are good too for rdm/dnc with echos for when they are silenced and amnesia'd since if not amnesia'd a rdm/dnc can silena themselves. next time do your homework before being a traditionalist and bashing rdm/dnc like the masses.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: RDM/DNC rehashed

Did you really necro a thread to call someone a noob when you provided no REAL concrete proof to prove otherwise?

And no, saying "Lol i did this and that" proves nothing. Show us screenshots, gear setups, etc to prove your point. Otherwise the only one looking like a noob is yourself.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: RDM/DNC rehashed

lolImps.

I liked the Colibri arguments better.

Seriously, though, why does a RDM need to sub DNC in PT when there are countless classes that can make as good or better use of it, aside from a lameshit excuse for the RDM to melee?

Even in the case of soloing, there are better subs for RDM. Good use of /DNC makes single wielding Joytoy requisite and that comes at the expense of using Joyeuse for feeding what is arguably the best source or RDM's DD output - Eviceration. Naturally, RDMs would sub /NIN to pull this off and offhand joy and then, if they soloed imps, they'd really only have to worry about one ailment to remove and just enduring amnesia with imps unless they had ecphoria ring on them.

You're not going to chain as well solo as the RDM/NIN, particularly since /DNC will not only rob you of Eviceration potential, but you'll be leeching TP to save MP, killing most WS potential. As a COR, I may very well be willing to sub DNC in a merit setting and give up some of my DD output for the good of the PT (particularly when things like Quick/Boxstep push the advantage of Hunter's or Chaos Roll further), but RDM/DNC is still saddled with a ton of casting I wouldn't have to futz around with, taking away from thier time to DD. While my TP gain and DD output would be inhibited because of DNC, it wouldn't be as severe as how it would inhibit a RDM's DD output.

Time and time again, we get these RDMs that love to gloss over the fact that spellcasting gets directly in the way of your DoT and TP gain. In /DNC's case, some JAs cut in there as well.

I have my facts well in hand and between my RDM and my COR, DNC is far more ideal in a party and solo setting for my COR. For my RDM, backline /WHM in a merit PT is superior and for solo /NIN reigns supreme. Too cookie-cutter for you? Too bad, you can go be "original" and get less EXP while other RDMs get tons more per hour.

[Vyuru]

Re: RDM/DNC rehashed

Also, this begs the question, why not just invite a Dancer?

This to me, is like inviting a Drk/Thf to do a Thf's job.

[Nuriko]

Re: RDM/DNC rehashed

Not that people don't do that 60+, enough to be able to SATA ... if you know what you're doing. THF has more than that...

[MrMageo]

Re: RDM/DNC rehashed

Too cookie-cutter for you? Too bad, you can go be "original" and get less EXP while other RDMs get tons more per hour.

How much is tons more exp? If a RDM is meleeing in a party whether or not it is /NIN or /DNC it does not kill exp at all if you have a competent party. So unless you are consistently getting 30-35K I would say both setups will average about the same. The burden for party success does not rely on the RDM alone, it is a combination of 6 people. If the situation allows it a RDM as /NIN or /DNC does not reduce party performance at all. Often times it increase party performance, especially in the case of not having a second brd or a cor.

/NIN is better than /DNC in parties where you can focus more on damage. Such as dual support heals (ie. RDM+BLU or RDM+DNC) or a dedicated main healer (ie. a WHM or RDM or SCH). In cases such as lolibri, where RDM can get away with subbing nothing if they want/could, often times it is more effective in a party to melee then stand and wait to cast. /DNC and /BLU work well in situations where you do need MP sustainability and are the only dedicated healer. Due to the less amount of work in these parties overall, swinging a sword is often better than not swinging one.

On mamools it gets dicey since we also pull in mobs with troublesome AoE. they are also harder to hit. Meaning less TP and less potency from a /DNC. With loss of constant erase and status removal, /WHM is usually the best bet when dealing with them. Unless of course the dedicated healing role is covered, in which case, swinging a sword is often better than not swinging one so /NIN, or /DNC.

Now if skill chains were common place, I would promote /SCH on mamools over /DNC and /BLU for the use of nukes(magic bursting). But the last time I saw a planed skill chain in a exp party, I was in the basement of Crawlers Nest fighting beetles.

[Callisto]

Re: RDM/DNC rehashed

I'm not sure if I'm more disappointed that this got necroed, or more relieved that it wasn't a brand new thread that got started.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: RDM/DNC rehashed

How much is tons more exp? If a RDM is meleeing in a party whether or not it is /NIN or /DNC it does not kill exp at all if you have a competent party. So unless you are consistently getting 30-35K I would say both setups will average about the same.

Nice try to steer it into a semantic discussion, but we're talking about RDM/NIN vs RDM/DNC on its own merits, you concede /NIN is better than /DNC for damage. You must also concede (though I doubt you will) that casting cuts into your DoT and that /DNC would cut into your DoT as well, as you're giving up your opportunity to use Dual Wield and Evicieration to TP with a Joyeuse as /DNC.

The drop-off in DoT is quite noticable for most DDs, it will be even more noticable for the RDM.

The burden for party success does not rely on the RDM alone, it is a combination of 6 people. If the situation allows it a RDM as /NIN or /DNC does not reduce party performance at all. Often times it increase party performance, especially in the case of not having a second brd or a cor.

Hate to say it, but you've only seen one side of the PT. Try keeping up with the demands that BRD and COR have to endure and you'll see the PT is about 90% RDM/BRD/COR and 10% everyone else. Pulling as a RDM does not remotely resemble pulling as BRD or COR, either.

On mamools it gets dicey since we also pull in mobs with troublesome AoE. they are also harder to hit.

THF and NIN mamools are harder to hit, the rest are rather easy to hit. Solution: if there are no BST, DRG or BLM Mamools to smack silly, pull puks, wyverns or raptors to keep chain.

[MrMageo]

Re: RDM/DNC rehashed

Nice try to steer it into a semantic discussion, but we're talking about RDM/NIN vs RDM/DNC on its own merits, you concede /NIN is better than /DNC for damage. You must also concede (though I doubt you will) that casting cuts into your DoT and that /DNC would cut into your DoT as well, as you're giving up your opportunity to use Dual Wield and Evicieration to TP with a Joyeuse as /DNC.

The drop-off in DoT is quite noticable for most DDs, it will be even more noticable for the RDM.

Im not trying to steer anything anywhere you claimed going as /whm yeilds tons more exp. I would like to know what you consider tons more. I feel it is a just question.

You are correct that casting and dancing will cut into your DoT, but it is not by amounts you like to play on to everyone. /DNC would see slightly more damage loss than a /nin because they would use TP to heal etc and not Weaponskill as often. However they are two totally different uses. /DNC can be used to main heal and still deal moderate damage, where /NIN is primarily used to support heal and will deal damage on par to average DD's. Your arguing a point that is the same as saying, you can still nuke as RDM/WHM but you wont do as much as RDM/BLM. That is a semantic argument, and Ill happily join you for a ride arguing over semantics, which obviously you do not understand.

Hate to say it, but you've only seen one side of the PT. Try keeping up with the demands that BRD and COR have to endure and you'll see the PT is about 90% RDM/BRD/COR and 10% everyone else. Pulling as a RDM does not remotely resemble pulling as BRD or COR, either.

Oh you mean the demands of making sure a mob is ready at camp every 30's while casting your AOE buffs? No I guess I have no idea how hard it is to pull and keep up a buff cycle. Oh wait my buffs are not AOE damn that must mean I don't need to work as hard. I would say that a party is 50% support/ 50% frontline, can't kill without melees and can't survive without support. 90/10 is a little much. I think you hold yourself in to high regard. I mean a BRD who does not use ACC songs or a COR who does not use exp roll, is worth 30% I don't think so. Maybe the 10% refers to your RNG which you refuse to pull on.

THF and NIN mamools are harder to hit, the rest are rather easy to hit. Solution: if there are no BST, DRG or BLM Mamools to smack silly, pull puks, wyverns or raptors to keep chain.

Right but do those mobs exist? THF and NIN mamools? yep they do, which means as a whole they will be harder to hit.

So ill ask it again. How much is this tons or exp more you get as /WHM than /DNC or /NIN?