rdm as DD?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: rdm as DD?

And back to IfritnoItazura's case. If IfritnoItazura did not use the sword and hang back, is that a better approach? What else can be done?

The options?
1. Play the back line RDM as usual, but semi-leech the limit points.
2. Play the puller RDM. (But, the WHM was playing puller already, and I suck at pulling.)
3. Force the nice WHM switch to BRD.
4. Melee as RDM for minor damage.

#1 isn't acceptable to me; I don't leech. Can't stand the idea of going to exp/merit party and get points for not doing much.

#3 is the only option for a stab at "optimal" exp/hour. But, the WHM was a nice guy, and I didn't feel like imposing when he obviously didn't want to merit on BRD.

That left #2 or #4. For me, anyway.

[Icemage]

Re: rdm as DD?

The options?
1. Play the back line RDM as usual, but semi-leech the limit points.
2. Play the puller RDM. (But, the WHM was playing puller already, and I suck at pulling.)
3. Force the nice WHM switch to BRD.
4. Melee as RDM for minor damage.

#1 isn't acceptable to me; I don't leech. Can't stand the idea of going to exp/merit party and get points for not doing much.

#3 is the only option for a stab at "optimal" exp/hour. But, the WHM was a nice guy, and I didn't feel like imposing when he obviously didn't want to merit on BRD.

That left #2 or #4. For me, anyway.

With a WHM in party, I think I'd sub BLU for Bludgeon spamming on Colibri, since they can't reflect physical Blue Magic. Way more damage than you'll ever see from swinging a sword, even Joyeuse...


Icemage

[arkaine23]

Re: rdm as DD?

No.

[Truece]

Re: rdm as DD?

With a WHM in party, I think I'd sub BLU for Bludgeon spamming on Colibri, since they can't reflect physical Blue Magic. Way more damage than you'll ever see from swinging a sword, even Joyeuse...

Really? I'd figure that the damage would get heavily resisted more often than not due to a gimped blue magic skill.

I take /BLU to campaign all the time and it is incredible how little damage I take, even from NMs. It is a great defensive subjob, but I don't see it adding much to a merit PT other than access to vorpal blade, and a short-recast stun.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: rdm as DD?

The accuracy is based on accuracy of main handed weapon. The damage rating is based on Blue Magic skill.

You'd have no more troubling landing Bludgeon than sword hits, but most likely but it'll hit like lumpy old fruitcakes rather than what the impressive graphics might otherwise suggest. Even if the damage is OK, I'd give it a pass; meleeing is damage to be made between spells--shouldn't be casting extra spells to burn up MP faster.

If I have lot's MP to spare in that situation, I'd rather shoulder a bit more of the hasting and healing duty, and let the WHM join the DD club. (Yes, pun intended.)

[arkaine23]

Re: rdm as DD?

Ideally, you're looking at 2.5 hits every 4.5-5 seconds x ~85% accuracy. You're pdif will be 1.1-1.25 on average easily with just Dia (to say nothing of Minuets), so you'd be hitting for more than the base D of your weapons. The camp getting the most discussion has piercing-weak targets, which take I believe an extra 20% damage.... looking at 45-60 damage/hit probably. Should have a 10-15% crit rate easily, for some 80-100ish hits. And then enspells are going to add a little to each hit.

Head Butt/Bludgeon are going to slow that down rather than add meaningful damage. Their base D is heavily penalized by lack of Blue magic skill.

You will be eating a few extra sushi's though due to food theft when you (believe or not) take hate from the other DDs on occasion. Its frequent enough to annoy, but not generally too bad.

[Lmnop]

Re: rdm as DD?

Head Butt/Bludgeon are going to slow that down rather than add meaningful damage. Their base D is heavily penalized by lack of Blue magic skill.

Actually, .5 second casting times (despite long animations) means BLU spam barely cuts into your DPS. For all practical DD RDM application, it will always out-DD just sword alone.

However, I agree with Itaz. Rdm melee is built around "something else to contribute between performing my main tasks" and spending more MP on Bludgeon-Butt doesn't really fit the bill.

Also, of note: Joyeuse is piercing damage, so no need to /nin and do Dagger/Joy. Joy mainhand, you'll give the Colibri hell. Note, though, that your WSs will still be slashing damage, so they won't be as big of numbers as Dagger Eviscerate. But +50% tp will always win. It's especially nice for RDM who may have to equip swap a staff when things start to go wrong.

[Icemage]

Re: rdm as DD?

Really? I'd figure that the damage would get heavily resisted more often than not due to a gimped blue magic skill.

Resists are basically misses. Rarely happens as long as your melee accuracy is up to snuff.

In the case of Bludgeon, it caps out so very early, and is so MP-efficient for damage that it doesn't really matter that your Blue Magic skill is capped.

I take /BLU to campaign all the time and it is incredible how little damage I take, even from NMs. It is a great defensive subjob, but I don't see it adding much to a merit PT other than access to vorpal blade, and a short-recast stun.

Set Bludgeon in your Blue Magic the next time you use /BLU. You'll be surprised at how consistent and efficient it really is.


Icemage

[Truece]

Re: rdm as DD?

Set Bludgeon in your Blue Magic the next time you use /BLU. You'll be surprised at how consistent and efficient it really is.

I do keep bludgeon set. Off the top of my head, I can't say for sure how much damage it would regularly do, but I know that I was unimpressed with it's performance against Campaign mobs. So unimpressed, in fact, that I regularly forget that I've got it set, and thus don't use it.

Now, my sword skill was (and still is) a bit under-levelled, so that may be why Bludgeon's damage was (and still is) so lousy.

[Icemage]

Re: rdm as DD?

I do keep bludgeon set. Off the top of my head, I can't say for sure how much damage it would regularly do, but I know that I was unimpressed with it's performance against Campaign mobs. So unimpressed, in fact, that I regularly forget that I've got it set, and thus don't use it.

Now, my sword skill was (and still is) a bit under-levelled, so that may be why Bludgeon's damage was (and still is) so lousy.

Yeah, if you're getting low numbers it's because one or more hits are missing. Cap out that Sword skill, munch on some cheap sushi, wear some ACC gear, and you'll see the damage improve dramatically.


Icemage

[arkaine23]

Re: rdm as DD?

Actually, .5 second casting times (despite long animations) means BLU spam barely cuts into your DPS. For all practical DD RDM application, it will always out-DD just sword alone.

However, I agree with Itaz. Rdm melee is built around "something else to contribute between performing my main tasks" and spending more MP on Bludgeon-Butt doesn't really fit the bill.

Also, of note: Joyeuse is piercing damage, so no need to /nin and do Dagger/Joy. Joy mainhand, you'll give the Colibri hell. Note, though, that your WSs will still be slashing damage, so they won't be as big of numbers as Dagger Eviscerate. But +50% tp will always win. It's especially nice for RDM who may have to equip swap a staff when things start to go wrong.

Still giving up /NIN DW delay reduction, suppanomimi DW delay reduction, 5 acc and 16 attack from Blau Dolch, and Evisceration.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: rdm as DD?

Hmm. One Joyeuse each: RDM/BLU Bludgeon spamming vs. RDM/NIN Evisceration spamming with Blau Dolch.

Not in a real merit party, of course, but perhaps in a friendly contest on Greater Colibris with friends providing tanking and healing support. Could be fun. ^_^

[Lmnop]

Re: rdm as DD?

Still giving up /NIN DW delay reduction, suppanomimi DW delay reduction, 5 acc and 16 attack from Blau Dolch, and Evisceration.

DPS-wise, it may come out on top. But tp-wise, Joyeuse single-wield will always always always get you more tp than dual wielding it with anything short of Justice Sword or Kraken Club (in the Justice Sword example, it'd be the same tp gain). So Dagger mainhanded would get you more potent WS, and arguably better DPS.... but now your 50% extra tp gain from Joyeuse is more like ~30% extra tp (remembering that it takes very low delay weapons like dagger/dagger to garner a tp advantage out of dual wield [see wiki for details]).

But really, that's neither here nor there. My main point was that /nin means you're giving up a sub that may be more viable to a party. DRK is a nice sub as it at least gives Aspir and Stun. BLM still isn't a horrendous sub for a party where you're doing all your mage work with a sword out (not that it sits well with me). /nin, however, is great if you're already pulling. But if that's the case, you've cost yourself a lot of melee time. You'll be hard-pressed just to do your RDM duties.

[arkaine23]

Re: rdm as DD?

Actually Blau/Joy is faster than a single-wielded Joyeuse.

Blau/Joy w/ Suppa has a delay of ~322 before any haste considerations. Average of 2.5 attacks, or ~129 delay per attack. A non-multi-attack main weapon also confers more advantage from Brutal Earring than single wielding or dual-wielding multi-attack weapons with Brutal, but I'll leave that out of these calculations.

Joy by itself before haste considerations attacks 1.5 times at delay 224, or ~150 delay per attack average.

Justice/Joy is the fastest... 368 combined delay after DW and Suppa, average of 3 attacks/round, for ~123 delay per attack average.

[Icemage]

Re: rdm as DD?

Actually Blau/Joy is faster than a single-wielded Joyeuse.

Blau/Joy w/ Suppa has a delay of ~322 before any haste considerations. Average of 2.5 attacks, or ~129 delay per attack. A non-multi-attack main weapon also confers more advantage from Brutal Earring than single wielding or dual-wielding multi-attack weapons with Brutal, but I'll leave that out of these calculations.

Joy by itself before haste considerations attacks 1.5 times at delay 224, or ~150 delay per attack average.

Justice/Joy is the fastest... 368 combined delay after DW and Suppa, average of 3 attacks/round, for ~123 delay per attack average.

True, though you'll gain TP faster with a single-wielded Joyeuse than Blau Dolch/Joyeuse, due to Dual Wield's effect on TP gain.

Dual Wielded Blau/Joy has a base TP gain of 4.8 TP per hit with Suppanomimi.

Single wielded Joyeuse has a base TP gain of 6.0 TP per hit.


Icemage