rdm as DD?

[Glued]

Re: rdm as DD?

while i accept your criticism, i must inform you i dont often melee hell i never do outside of soloing this gear is mostly for campaign, minus the dex rings they were all i had at the time and wasnt going to go shopping for DD RDM equipment wheni dont use it. Perhaps the THF, and NIN were badly equipped i imagine the NIN was they are lazy enough as it is. I said i out damaged them swinging which i did, but there WS's blew my damage down to piddle shit. On average my dagger was hiting for 20-30 and would crit fairly ofter for 40-60, my off hand was hitting for 30-40 and would crit 60-80 including the enblizzard on both for an extra 28 damage as it was seldom resisted. The reason i was mentioning this was to show RDM numbers are not that much worse than some minor DD's, can i parse to a war drg sam drk hell no, but can i open WS for them so they can close heavier you bet your ass i can. Which leads me to another thing parse's dont take credit in for you lowering resistance to a closing WS that extra damage those jobs do gets tacked onto them not RDM.
\
*added*

As for RDM DD i agree with you many do half ass it, i myself just did it for something to do, i wasnt there for glory i was boerd out of my skull from lame colbri fights. If i geared for it i would have had a SH PCC and woodsman rings amongst other thing is i dont melee i dont like to id rather have complete control of every aspect from the backline as a god-like general. Boasting yes maybe i am, shitty equipment yes it was, half assing my job never.

*/end add*

On the note of judging my punctation and grammar, frankly i dont give a damn, evidently it did not affect your ability to read it and reply to it did it. hmmm. clearly not.

[Callisto]

Re: rdm as DD?

Haha, I didn't see the post below mine at first, I was like 229~ Attack and Lv. 14 DEX rings, are you high?

[Spinnthrift]

Re: rdm as DD?

And - again I'm going to call you out with your laughable 229 attack and landing 30 damage a hit. You're lying. Melee cRatio works well enough for everyone else - except you it seems. Why do I know you're lying? Because I've played Thf and Nin through those levels with enough attack to get 30 a hit and 60 crits (off ~30 damage weapons). And it wasn't 229. Hence my previous post.

Going to do a BG and call POID at this point.

Yes - I could read your post, gave me a headache though trying to decipher it, and my point stands. If you aren't willing to put the effort into typing out a little post, how are you going to put the effort into your job to do it properly? Especially if you are lying so blatantly about your damage (which you are as there is no way you can perform the way you say you are with the stats you're reporting).

[Glued]

Re: rdm as DD?

hmmm guess i just like to lie then even when i plug my stats into a damage calcutator it says 17-34 damage from my weaker wapon and 28-45 for my stronger 1 i must be lying, hell maybe ill even find exact stats on colbri and factor in pericing damage too maybe itll be more, i mean colbri nt no 75 mobs and sure as hell dosent have high def to melee and is most certainly weak to peircing, maybe i really dont know how to read numbers and such, maybe its just the fact you dont want to beleive it, hmm i dunno maybe ill hop on game and give you my stats so you can check it yourself i dunno maybe that might shut you up ill be back with them
------------------------------------------
oh crap guess im in the wrong and cant acctually read numbers my atk is 339 not 229 *slaps his own face* well im sorry i feel like a douche now

[Celeal]

Re: rdm as DD?

If there is a BRD in the Colbri party and the RDM is taking the Melee Songs... maybe the damage output from the RDM is decent.

Seriously, if MP is not a concern in the Colbri burn party, I would ask the RDM to melee.

[Icemage]

Re: rdm as DD?

If there is a BRD in the Colbri party and the RDM is taking the Melee Songs... maybe the damage output from the RDM is decent.

Seriously, if MP is not a concern in the Colbri burn party, I would ask the RDM to melee.

On just Colibri, I agree.

Don't try that jazz on Mamool Ja, though.


Icemage

[Glued]

Re: rdm as DD?

lol colbri are the exception for anyone to melee on ive even seen whm come down for some staff action a nice whiff fest but its better than sitting on your ass watching the grass grow

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: rdm as DD?

I attempted DD RDM last night! Sort of. Invite from a WHM to Greater Colibri camp.

I was skeptical, but desperate for limit points. Just before I step on the pad to teleport to staging point, the leader (WHM) asked if it would be a bad setup with WHM and RDM, and whether he should switch to BRD or THF.

Told him BRD would be best, but he replied he didn't have /NIN ready. I told him even Utusemi: Ichi would be good; heck, BRD/WHM + RDM would be better than RDM + WHM. He was still reluctant; turned out he hated the job. XD

Didn't have to heart to make this nice WHM switch to BRD, but I didn't want to leech, either. So, compromise: I take a shot at DD RDM.

DD gears (when not casting spells):
Optical Hat
Joyeuse
Tariqah (Shield; Acc+4, Eva+4)
Scorpion Harness
Life Belt

DD Merits
Sword Skill (4)

Food:
Squid Sushi

Support Job:
/DRK

All in all, pretty badly geared for a DD; I forgot my Accuracy+ rings and Attack+ back piece, but even if I had them, I'd be still way low on attack and somewhat short on accuracy. Eating Squid Sushi helped a lot, but didn't exactly make me a real swordsman.

Having not melee'd in exp party since Lv.20-something, I was basically fumbling through the first half of the party. I had two Haste, two Refresh, backup heal, and back up sleep duties. WHM was pulling. ._.

Did about 8.86% of total damage. 72.13% accuracy; pretty low by merit party standards. Enblizzard was heavily but inconsistantly resisted; added up to be 1.4% of total damage output of the party.

I'd sum up my performance as a minor kill speed boost.

Notes:

• Mid party, we changed tank and DDs, making more detailed comparisons hard to make. Generally speaking, my RDM/DRK out damaged DRG's Wyvern by more than two to one, in fights I can melee. So, if Wyvern's damage was considered useful, mine should have been doubly so?
• Out damaged our PLD--but he was actually our WAR. When the NIN left, he was sent home to change in a hurry. Not sure if he had a better set up he could've brought if he had time to mule.
• Couldn't melee in every fight. Multiple links and adds happen at times, and I couldn't afford the distraction of melee'ing during those. Sword away, staves out. I also did not Convert near the party if it's fighting something--call it survival instinct.
• I did crowd control poorly, and the WHM died once because of it. Switching between melee'ing and crowd control smoothly requires practice and vigilance--and proper macro with <stnpc> instead of <t>.
• Vorpal Blade with Souleater (and Stoneskin) is fun; managed to hit 491 once. Barely avoided losing my sushi a few times, though. This is not doable with out another mage--it eats straight through Stoneskin, and may require much extra curing if left on for a few attack rounds after.
• Didn't track exp/hour, but I think it wasn't too great. Part of it was the lack of BRD or COR or "extra DD", part of it was that some of the DDs in party weren't very good at all.
• As much fun as it was, I wouldn't recommend RDM/DRK for melee'ing in exp parties to most people. Even at Colibri camp.
• However, if someone is determined to try, the minimum requirement should be: Joyeuse, sushi, and at least Accuracy+40 from equipment. Preferably more accuracy. A lot more. Some Attack+ gear would be nice, too. (You don't want to suck more than I did. >_> )
• Shouldn't have to mention this, but bring mage gear, too. Need the MP+ for convert, Light Staff for heavy curing, and Dark Staff for hMP and crowd control, etc. No, you're not supposed to have 10 spaces for holding Wind Crystals and Colibri beaks.
• No, I didn't meet the minimum requirement I set. I had intended to, but was in too much of a rush, and forgot some gear. â—€/sighâ–¶

[Callisto]

Re: rdm as DD?

I attempted DD RDM last night! Sort of. Invite from a WHM to Greater Colibri camp.

I was skeptical, but desperate for limit points. Just before I step on the pad to teleport to staging point, the leader (WHM) asked if it would be a bad setup with WHM and RDM, and whether he should switch to BRD or THF.

Told him BRD would be best, but he replied he didn't have /NIN ready. I told him even Utusemi: Ichi would be good; heck, BRD/WHM + RDM would be better than RDM + WHM. He was still reluctant; turned out he hated the job. XD

Didn't have to heart to make this nice WHM switch to BRD, but I didn't want to leech, either. So, compromise: I take a shot at DD RDM.

DD gears (when not casting spells):
Optical Hat
Joyeuse
Tariqah (Shield; Acc+4, Eva+4)
Scorpion Harness
Life Belt

DD Merits
Sword Skill (4)

Food:
Squid Sushi

Support Job:
/DRK

All in all, pretty badly geared for a DD; I forgot my Accuracy+ rings and Attack+ back piece, but even if I had them, I'd be still way low on attack and somewhat short on accuracy. Eating Squid Sushi helped a lot, but didn't exactly make me a real swordsman.

Having not melee'd in exp party since Lv.20-something, I was basically fumbling through the first half of the party. I had two Haste, two Refresh, backup heal, and back up sleep duties. WHM was pulling. ._.

Did about 8.86% of total damage. 72.13% accuracy; pretty low by merit party standards. Enblizzard was heavily but inconsistantly resisted; added up to be 1.4% of total damage output of the party.

I'd sum up my performance as a minor kill speed boost.

Notes:

• Mid party, we changed tank and DDs, making more detailed comparisons hard to make. Generally speaking, my RDM/DRK out damaged DRG's Wyvern by more than two to one, in fights I can melee. So, if Wyvern's damage was considered useful, mine should have been doubly so?
• Couldn't melee in every fight. Multiple links and adds happen at times, and I couldn't afford the distraction of melee'ing during those. Sword away, staves out. I also do not Convert near the party if it's fighting something--call it survival instinct.
• I did crowd control poorly, and the WHM died once because of it. Switching between melee'ing and crowd control smoothly requires practice and vigilance--and proper macro with <stnpc> instead of <t>.
• Vorpal Blade with Souleater (and Stoneskin) is fun; managed to hit 491 once. Barely avoided losing my sushi a few times, though. This is not doable with out another mage--it eats straight through Stoneskin, and may require much extra curing if left on for a few attack rounds after.
• Didn't track exp/hour, but I think it wasn't too great. Part of it was the lack of BRD or COR or "extra DD", part of it was that some of the DDs in party weren't very good at all.
• As much fun as it was, I wouldn't recommend RDM/DRK for melee'ing in exp parties to most people. Even at Colibri camp.
• However, if someone is determined to try, the minimum requirement should be: Joyeuse, sushi, and at least Accuracy+40 from equipment. Preferably more accuracy. A lot more. Some Attack+ gear would be nice, too. (You don't want to suck more than I did. >_> )
• Shouldn't have to mention this, but bring mage gear, too. Need the MP+ for convert, Light Staff for heavy curing, and Dark Staff for hMP and crowd control, etc. No, you're not supposed to have 10 spaces for holding Wind Crystals and Colibri beaks.
• No, I didn't meet the minimum requirement I set. I had intended to, but was in too much of a rush, and forgot some gear. â—€/sighâ–¶

Glad you had some fun with it at least.

In terms of macros, I use <st> for all of my party buffs(Refresh/Haste/Regen/Cures/Pro/Shell) to make it easy to buff while swinging, but in terms of crowd control I honestly just use the menu and manually select Sleep > target. I wouldn't want to change my current Sleep macros to <st>'s as it would slow down my sleeping in non-melee situations.

And yeah, +40~ Acc is about the good zone for me not counting the sushi, my set gives +40 or +48 depending on which sword I use. I do prefer Sole when I can afford it just because of extra STR, there's alot of room to add more STR as RDM before you get anywhere close to capping fSTR.

The 2 most important things I can stress is that 1) you shouldn't expect to be a 'real' DD, it's about adding supplemental damage to help make the difference in keeping chains, and 2) if you really want to try it and not give yourself a bad name, you can't half-ass it. Pony up for some Acc/Atk/STR gear before you give it a shot, make sure your sword is skilled up, and if you can pump some merits into it.

Edit: Vs. Colibri I almost always go with Enblizzard due to both their native weakness to it as well as my Ice Accuracy merits, it gets resisted much less often than other enspells regardless of what day it is.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: rdm as DD?

In terms of macros, I use <st> for all of my party buffs(Refresh/Haste/Regen/Cures/Pro/Shell) to make it easy to buff while swinging,

I have that. I also have Light Staff macro'ed for cures. The problem was, I didn't want to put Light Staff away, in case I need to switch to heavy curing mode.

Ibut in terms of crowd control I honestly just use the menu and manually select Sleep > target. I wouldn't want to change my current Sleep macros to <st>'s as it would slow down my sleeping in non-melee situations.

Well... My sleep macros are always on <stnpc> unless I need to sleepga charmed people. I only put that line in about <st...> for the benefit of other RDMs attempting this.

My trouble with crowd control was due to the lack of attention and anticipation. As I've written, melee'ing was a distraction. Needed to keep track of where the puller (WHM) was, and face camera to where he'll be, and don't have a lot of extra critters I have to switch through when I hit the sleep macro.

He usually pulled and Repose the critters nicely, so I let my guard down. Good thing he had Reraise III. >_>;

The 2 most important things I can stress is that 1) you shouldn't expect to be a 'real' DD, it's about adding supplemental damage to help make the difference in keeping chains,

And, don't let your ego get in the way--an average BRD or COR will do more for the party's damage output than a very well geared RDM's sword. Without another mage to watch of the party's HP bars, it's much better not to melee, unless you're really, really good at switching between tasks fast.

2) if you really want to try it and not give yourself a bad name, you can't half-ass it. Pony up for some Acc/Atk/STR gear before you give it a shot, make sure your sword is skilled up, and if you can pump some merits into it.

Totally agree here--don't even think about melee'ing in merit party without capped sword skill.

If I see a real DD with 72% accuracy like I had, I'd demand he stop using my merit time to skill up, and/or put on real DD gear. Or, I'd just ask the leader to replace that waste of party slot with any of ten other DDs seeking.

[Akashimo]

Re: rdm as DD?

Some of you're gear, I'd think would improve if you change to the following for when DDing;
AF hands(+3dex, parrying when you get hate)
AF Feet(good for taking unexpected hits)
Warwolf Belt(Str + dex + vit > acc alone)
Snipers/Jeager's + Raja's or dex/str(Personally I'd take one acc and one stat ring to up the curve evenly)
Relic Legs(relic +4 dex, spikes effect, good ;3 )
Chiv chain
Suppa if you have it for sword, otherwise, moldy and atk earring
AF hat(I find it more worth while meleeing with it to cast when needed than macroing it in/out)
Amement Mantle+1 (No excuses, +1 or no DDing rdm)
Genbu's Shield(4acc of that tarque isn't that big of a deal imho and with /drk, -10% phys dmg taken is godly when you get hate @_@; )

Sword Choices:
I haven't gotten a joytoy yet so no comment on how that works yet. So going with what I've toyed around with;
Martial Anelace(TP bonus, yummy, helps make up for lack of dmg/acc)
Royal Guards Flueret(+6acc, low delay, acceptable dmg)
Dissector(+6% crit rate, awesome sauce)

Daggers
Hornetneedle(best high speed low dmg great to use with en-spelling, espically when single handling it)
Garuda's Dagger(great for uping dmg, but a little higher delay)
Martial Knife(see martial sword)

Enjoy.

[Callisto]

Re: rdm as DD?

I have that. I also have Light Staff macro'ed for cures. The problem was, I didn't want to put Light Staff away, in case I need to switch to heavy curing mode.

That's another thing I forgot to mention actually, I have an individual swap for each of my staves, to make sure I don't lose TP when casting spells, and I change staves as needed.

My trouble with crowd control was due to the lack of attention and anticipation. As I've written, melee'ing was a distraction. Needed to keep track of where the puller (WHM) was, and face camera to where he'll be, and don't have a lot of extra critters I have to switch through when I hit the sleep macro.

I can see that being an issue, I generally am the puller myself when I choose to melee. I usually use the menu to cast Slow on surrounding birds, adds a slight debuff and it won't do anything to me when cast back at me, I follow that up with Sleep. I tend to leave Stoneskin off and only use Blink, this way if they cast Sleep back after waking either it eats a shadow, or if it hits me they usually get 1 hit in on me before someone gets hate, waking me up, and a single Regen will fill me up again. Not to mention that Stoneskin is a long cast when you do cast it, and cuts out a fair # of possible swings if you keep it up constantly.

And, don't let your ego get in the way--an average BRD or COR will do more for the party's damage output than a very well geared RDM's sword. Without another mage to watch of the party's HP bars, it's much better not to melee, unless you're really, really good at switching between tasks fast.

Yeah, if I actually was intending to be a 'DD' I'd just go as COR where I can post 1k+ weaponskills without breaking a sweat. Then again I have a nice luxury of choosing between 3 jobs that can at times fill the same spot.

As far as gear, the most important pieces I can recommend in order of importance are: Paluwhan Body, Optical Hat, Amemet+1, and Potent Belt. For the neck it depends what you have to choose from really, I have a PCC but I tend to go with Chiv Chain still for the extra STR. Ogre Ledlesens are also a huge pickup for the price, a fat chunk of attack for like 5k gil in a slot where you really can't get anything useful. I currently use Tarasque Mitts, I personally feel that's the best buyable piece you can use in the hands slot, although I'll be using Goliard Cuffs as soon as I can get them.

The really tough choice slot is the earring, mainly due to choices in DM and AN. Suppa and Hollow both are fantastic melee earrings, however you can't neglect your actual magic, and Abysal, Magnetic, and Static Earrings are all great choices as well. I went with Abyssal and Hollow, as I frequently use Dark Magic, like the equivalent of a free Phantom+1 for debuffs, and nothing really compares to the Hollow earring for COR, not to mention my Enspells currently do 22 base damage without an Enhancing Sword or Fencer's Ring, 27 with ESword.

Weapons, I really have a tough time picking. I have some nice ones to choose from, lately I've been using Joy more, but deep down I love my ESword, it puts up nice #'s, it looks cool, and no matter what happens I know that I own something that was at one time worth 25m(14m when I got mine). As /WAR or /DRK I'd honestly use Justice Sword above anything else though(should be getting one soon pending on my lot luck) the ability for DA to proc during Vorpal Blade, while still keeping up with Joy TP-wise, and how easy it is to farm for stones as RDM makes it extremely appealing.

Edit: I suppose I should've included a sword option that wasn't hard to obtain, if I didn't have Joy/ESword I personally would go with a Company Fleuret, Verdun, or Guspiere for parties, Mensur Epee for solo. Aside from something with outstanding stats such as the ESword I'd stay away from swords w/ higher delay than the 224~ ones, the extra enspell hits will generally make up for the slight differences in base damage.

[Lmnop]

Re: rdm as DD?

Warwolf Belt(Str + dex + vit > acc alone)

If you could 2 hand that rapier, I'd almost agree. I'd still say go with Lifebelt.

Amement Mantle+1 (No excuses, +1 or no DDing rdm)

It would take you hours of parsing to notice a difference between Amemet and it's +1 counterpart. I mean, I understand what you're getting at -- you have more ground to make up, and since you're carrying around so much gear, anyway, the more you can cram into a single slot, the better (wtg super-comma usage). However, to say "no excuse" is to go a bit far... Honestly, an akinji peti, lifebelt, etc... would do the trick. The only really costly investment should be acc rings (and for RDM meleeing, I think I'd take 'em over a Rajas, even).

Dedicating yourself to the pursuit of good RDM melee calls for lots of obscene things, but making an effective build to help contribute to kill speed (like Itazura's story) requires nothing of the sort. You're still helping out in such a situation...

Indeed, the worst thing about RDM melee is that, typically, it's a bandaid for sub-optimal conditions. Who plans for and hopes for sub-optimal?

[Callisto]

Re: rdm as DD?

Indeed, the worst thing about RDM melee is that, typically, it's a bandaid for sub-optimal conditions. Who plans for and hopes for sub-optimal?

Hoping for sub-optimal, of course not. Planning for it is entirely different, though, I believe you should always plan for sub-optimal conditions, and overdo it just in case shit comes into contact with a fan. I always plan to need to get a task done with the least amount of resources available, because I'm in a small linkshell with low #'s but talented players. We low-man many things, and many times me being able to put out a reasonable damage output without nuking makes a big difference. Sometimes we try to get things done outside of scheduled times to help the LS, or when less people are availabe to help, i.e. going up to Sky on during free time and duoing Diorites with a DRG/BLU, where me meleeing seriously speeds up the amount we can get through in a given amount of time.

Even when it comes to merits, 1) there just isn't always a BRD lfg, and 2) I really don't like partying in pickup groups anymore anyways, so we work with who we have online in LS at the time. Sometimes we field BRD WHM COR DDx3 and rape, sometimes we field BLU BLU DNC RDM RDM DRK and work with what we have, lol.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: rdm as DD?

If you could 2 hand that rapier, I'd almost agree. I'd still say go with Lifebelt.

I still think that the 1 DEX = 1 Accuracy update should have been given to One-Handed weapons from the word go. I mean, that would have helped us a lot, and besides, I miss seeing jokes like "A DRK walks in to a bar . . . and misses."