Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

[Raydeus]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

Question:

So after all the debate and experience is turns out the only group II spell worth it (and only at lvl 1 to rewrite Haste buffs) is Slow II?

[Callisto]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

Anyways, now, I want to cap Bio III for solo purposes - that extra dmg/tick makes the fight go much faster (which in itself is safety).

Yeah, but that's what he was specifically asking for, to use it for soloing DoT kite fights, which if you were going to even bother using it for those you'd have to cap it to make it even comparable to Bio II, much less better.
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Question:

So after all the debate and experience is turns out the only group II spell worth it (and only at lvl 1 to rewrite Haste buffs) is Slow II?

I personally am very happy with Paralyze II and Slow II. Blind II is impossible to tell how much it helps, but so is Blind I, so I just use it to be safe. Para II and Slow II alone saved me when I got caught by Ice Break on my last Zip solo, getting hit with that can easily wipe most RDMs if not for some very lucky Para procs.

[Sabaron]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

Question:

So after all the debate and experience is turns out the only group II spell worth it (and only at lvl 1 to rewrite Haste buffs) is Slow II?

I'm very happy with Paralyze II. The proc rate is very nice. I'm sure hong is probably disappointed with it relative to it's performance against HNMs, but he'd really have to answer that. If you think about it though, it's not like you're ever going to see 1/2 or 1/4 proc on Kirin, but if you look at Paralyze and Jubaku: Ichi, are you even going to be able to stick them in the first place. Paralyze II is great because it's the absolute stickiest paralyze effect in the game and it has the best proc rate relative to any other paralyze effect available on the same mob. Why wouldn't you want it over Jubaku: Ichi?

I'm sure that it's possible to get numbers on Blind II. It decreases accuracy , yes? We have Brenner do we not?

Can't we take meat bag one and meat bag two out to Brenner, slap some dink weapons on them and have them beat on each other for an hour or so and get some numbers? Does anyone have Blind II merited?

A suitable test environment for Blind II.

Take two naked 75WARs with unmerited random weapon skill.

Give them an Onion weapon with a moderate attack rate.

Keep one continuously under the effects of Blind and Blind II of whatever merit level.

Use a parser to determine the hit ratios of each war (over a long period of time).

The problem being resists to the spell which should be very rare. The blind WAR can only hit while blind--if his sight returns they break attack until blind is back up.

Best test case is 1 RDM with Blind II-1 7 active merit points or a combination of two RDMs with different levels of Blind II merit.
Initial testing... Naked RDM casting Blind, followed by Blind II-1.
Follow up by increasing merit level of Blind II to 2.
Resume testing.
Increase Blind II Merit level to 3 and resume testing.

We need to collect at least 100 samples with each spell. An onion sword has 228 delay, 60/228 * 100 = 26 minutes, so about 1/2 an hour per test for a total test time of 2 hours.

Now just convert the hit rate to accuracy.

[Callisto]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

I have Blind II, but no willing lab rats.

Side note, in my personal experiences Ice Spikes is hands down the best proc rate Paralyze effect I've used...wish I could get one as strong as Hex Eye.

[Sabaron]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

I have Blind II, but no willing lab rats.

Side note, in my personal experiences Ice Spikes is hands down the best proc rate Paralyze effect I've used...wish I could get one as strong as Hex Eye.

Ice spikes can't be -ga'ed with any power (Frost Armor is laughably short) and someone squishy has to be tanking or someone not squishy has to be wasting their sub on /BLM.

[Raydeus]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

I personally am very happy with Paralyze II and Slow II. Blind II is impossible to tell how much it helps, but so is Blind I, so I just use it to be safe. Para II and Slow II alone saved me when I got caught by Ice Break on my last Zip solo, getting hit with that can easily wipe most RDMs if not for some very lucky Para procs.

Is it really worth the MP cost/effect over tier I though? I don't solo tough mobs much anymore, but I would probably stay clear from mobs that would require me to have Slow and Para II on them the entire fight, specially since I'd run out of MP fast.

Slow + Para 81 vs 21 MP, it should give you at least twice the effect to be worth it, the question is: Does it?

I'm very happy with Paralyze II. The proc rate is very nice. I'm sure hong is probably disappointed with it relative to it's performance against HNMs, but he'd really have to answer that. If you think about it though, it's not like you're ever going to see 1/2 or 1/4 proc on Kirin, but if you look at Paralyze and Jubaku: Ichi, are you even going to be able to stick them in the first place. Paralyze II is great because it's the absolute stickiest paralyze effect in the game and it has the best proc rate relative to any other paralyze effect available on the same mob. Why wouldn't you want it over Jubaku: Ichi?

I guess if I did HNM stuff I'd also like Para II if just for the stick rate alone.

[Malacite]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

Bio II will do 6/tick for 120 seconds, maxed Bio III with 225+ skill does 8/tick for 90 seconds(I forgot what the 9/tick tier is, if there is one reachable by /NIN). Both of these add up to 240 damage, the only damage increase maxed Bio III is giving you is in the initial damage, if it's something hard like Sky NMs, Bio II will fetch you about 7-10, III will get you 35~ in my experiences.

What about with Dark Arts though?

[Raydeus]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

I have Blind II, but no willing lab rats.

Side note, in my personal experiences Ice Spikes is hands down the best proc rate Paralyze effect I've used...wish I could get one as strong as Hex Eye.

I've always used Ice Spikes and love them, which is why I rarely even cast Paralize unless I'm /NIN and the mob hits so hard I can't risk getting hit by it at all (yay shihei burn).

So yeah Para II isn't for me. I just hope Spellblade spells for RDM (if that's what SE has in mind) are much better.



PS > (Burn) Malachite, (Burn)!

[Callisto]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

Ice spikes can't be -ga'ed with any power (Frost Armor is laughably short) and someone squishy has to be tanking or someone not squishy has to be wasting their sub on /BLM.

I just meant in terms of soloing, Ice Spikes is much more potent than me casting a Paralyze spell of either tier.

Is it really worth the MP cost/effect over tier I though? I don't solo tough mobs much anymore, but I would probably stay clear from mobs that would require me to have Slow and Para II on them the entire fight, specially since I'd run out of MP fast.

Slow + Para 81 vs 21 MP, it should give you at least twice the effect to be worth it, the question is: Does it?

I don't think that it has to be twice the effect to be worth it. Haste works exponentially, as does Slow. If you're fighting a mob large enough to warrant a strong Paralyze effect, it's worth the MP to have the best possible effect. Remember that in large fights, 1 Para proc can save a WHM 85+ MP.

What about with Dark Arts though?

It very well may, I intend to test it as soon as I hit 37 SCH. However, I need to point out again that the OP is about capping Bio III for DoT kiting heavy duty NMs, almost all of which would require /NIN to do.

[Mhurron]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

Side note, in my personal experiences Ice Spikes is hands down the best proc rate Paralyze effect I've used(

Sad isn't it. Would be nice if Paralyze II was at least that good.

[Callisto]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

Sad isn't it. Would be nice if Paralyze II was at least that good.

Eh could be worse. I'm thankful that the high proc rate spell is for when something is swinging at my face rather than someone else's.
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Eh I did goof a little, I omitted that although Bio III did the same amount of DoT, there was an extra 1 and 2/3 duration squeezed into 10 minutes over Bio II. This results in an extra 400 damage, 33% more than Bio II. If you already have other RDMs that use Phalanx II at your other events, it would be worth capping Bio III for your solo efforts, it'll shave 1/3 off of your fight time assuming you can recast it quickly after it wears each time.

[hongman]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

Icemage, I was under the impression that Bio 3 isnt worth much in solo situations without capped duration compared to Bio 2, dmg/mp wise.

I am really leaning toward Phalanx II tbh. I hardly ever use that anymore.

Para II, I was really disappointed with. Hard to test Para procs, so I guess I am going on placebo, but it seems to me Paralyze 1 procs more than Paralyze 2 >.> (ala our last Ultima)

Slow II - hmm. I will decide on this later, if I do drop this to level 1 I may merit something like Dia III for zergs.

It'll probably be some months before I am done with all this anyway, I find it so hard to merit now, its so boring >.>

[BurningPanther]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

I am really leaning toward Phalanx II tbh. I hardly ever use that anymore.

Short answer: if I had to choose one to drop, Phalanx 2 would be it.

Para II, I was really disappointed with. Hard to test Para procs, so I guess I am going on placebo, but it seems to me Paralyze 1 procs more than Paralyze 2 >.> (ala our last Ultima)

Eyeballing it, I'd have to say at it's worst, the tier 2 procs just as much as the tier one, perhaps a bit more on average. The key to consider with all the the tier 2 merits is that we seem to be paying for that extra 2 MAcc on the spell per upgrade.

Slow II - hmm. I will decide on this later, if I do drop this to level 1 I may merit something like Dia III for zergs.

Drop anything but Slow 2. My personal opinion is that this was the greatest update we were given since the release of ToAU.

[Malacite]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

Wouldn't dark arts @75 boost RDM's dark magic rating to around 250? That's a pretty drastic increase. Might jack Bio III's DoT a point or two.

[Sabaron]

Re: Which to drop - Slow II or Phalanx II

Wouldn't dark arts @75 boost RDM's dark magic rating to around 250? That's a pretty drastic increase. Might jack Bio III's DoT a point or two.

This is where the theoretical next tier of Bio III came into play in a recent discussion in one of the Red Mage threads starting here at Taskmage's necro.