rdm/nin

[emeraldpearl]

i know rdm/nin is for soloing but i was wondering. can i still get pt's?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: rdm/nin

RDM/NIN is somewhat controversial for party use. Before merit level, when RDMs are scarce, I'd imagine you can get away with using RDM/NIN only, especially if you are competent at RDM's duties. In most situations, though, RDM/WHM would be better.

May I ask why you'd want RDM/NIN for party use?

[emeraldpearl]

Re: rdm/nin

lol i just wanna lvl it ^^

[Kirsteena]

Re: rdm/nin

Level what? rdm or nin? Because it is a bit confusing...

[emeraldpearl]

Re: rdm/nin

well right now im lvling nin to 37 so i can sub it for rdm. i just wanted to know wether its possible to get a pt as rdm/nin

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: rdm/nin

>_>;

Well, if you insist, but it really isn't optimal for most levels. Where you can make a case of being a good DD with RDM/NIN Dual Wield:

When you have access to these swords (and when they are level appropriate):
Lv.18 Flame Sword
Lv.19 Auriga Xiphos
Lv.30 Centurion Sword (x2)
Lv.34 Republic Sword (x2)

There's a bit of gap in late 20's, where I guess you can replace one Flame Sword with Gladiator. Of course, you'd always suffer from lower base attack and accuracy due to RDM's B ranked sword skill compared to A/A+ weapons used by real melees, but good equipment and en-spell can make the gap in actual damage a lot smaller.

I don't believe there are really compiling DD swords post Lv.40; they lack DPS and have no accuracy+ attributes. (I do like Buzzard Tuck, though.) The B rank skills will really start to interfere with accuracy anyway. You also get Convert at Lv.40, and really get to do heavy lifting on the mage side--now, lack of a MP support job will hurt you once in smaller MP pool, and again with less MP from Convert.

Lv.41, you start on Refresh duty, and now you are constantly juggling spells, making melee'ing very much a distraction instead of an asset.

Lv.51 is where the elemental staves come into the picture, and you'd be switching weapons all the time, nullifying TP gain. RDM melee'ing should've retired in Lv.40's, but this is where it dies a sure death.

* * *

If you're really into DD, /NIN only helps if you can get acceptably high accuracy; Dual Wield I improves DoT by 10%, but if you're whiffing 40%+ of your swings, 10% more swings matters little. In that case, Accuracy Bonus from /RNG would help you do more damage than /NIN's Dual Wield.

Then again, if you're really into DD, Samurai is probably the hottest DD job presently.

* * *

In lower levels, if a RDM has time (i.e. not casting spells), the best thing is usually to do a /heal on and rest for MP... Lot's of lower level exp monsters have somewhat nasty AoE attacks (e.g. Fly, Rabbit, Goblin, Mandragora, Lizard) anyway, so I don't see the point of staying in the front line unless there's a desperate need for more damage output.

* * *

I always brought my melee gears as a low level RDM; between Lv.10-30, I think I had only two parties where my sword was actually needed desperately.

One party was horribly put together and cursed with a "DD SMN" who did little damage and no curing, and I had little choice but to help out with damage output and curing both. The other party ran into trouble, and I jumped in to help kill critter once or twice after a death and everyone was out of MP.

In smooth running parties, melee'ing was reserved for when I had more than enough MP and was bored--which is pretty rare, since I always wanted more MP...

[emeraldpearl]

Re: rdm/nin

so basically the only real way to pt with rdm is if you have whm sub, lol

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: rdm/nin

I'm a big fan of RDM/WHM for exp partying, but many swear by RDM/BLM.

If the party is in substantial danger from links or pops, Elemental Seal (and Sleepga later) is a great help for keeping the party safe. Aspir-able monsters like Crab and Colibri are good time to bring /BLM, too. Otherwise, it's hard for me to ignore status curative -na spells and the very MP efficient Curaga from /WHM.

Although rare, there are mage/MP heavy parties where /BRD for Ballad is the best support job you can bring. Under some circumstances, /SMN may be very good, but I've never came across a party where I said to myself "Gosh, if I only have /SMN ready."

You can exp from Lv.1 to Lv.75 on /WHM alone, but having /BLM as alternate is a good idea. Earlier access to Aspir is a good reason for /DRK. Having /BRD makes you a complete party-RDM specialist, and /COR is for when things are too good, and about the only thing useful from support job is more exp for an already great party. (Wouldn't count on many good parties for using /COR, though.)

For the most part, /NIN and /BLU are for solo use, though one can make a good argument for /NIN as puller for fast paced parties. (Utsusemi: Ni is a lot faster than Stoneskin, for sure.) For a "Ha-ha let's have fun" party with friends, a very well equipped RDM/NIN could be interesting. Of course, RDM/DRK for Chainspell Stun on special fights will probably never go out of fashion.

At lower levels, if you're invited to a party with another RDM/WHM already, you can justifiably use RDM/NIN to contribute to DD--provided you have the gears to back up the claim to a DD slot.

[hongman]

Re: rdm/nin

No. Just, no.

Except from with friends" party, RDM/NIN will be ineffiecient and restrictive. While you may actually find parties that let you sub /nin, there is really no point.

/BLM (hell, /WHM even) and nuking will get you more points on the DD parser than meleeing. YOu will have access to crap WS's, while other DD's have half decent ones.

It would take a very high calibre RDM to pull this off in a way where you could argue /NIN - and there arent a lot of those around. Especially pre-merit levels.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: rdm/nin

Except from with friends" party, RDM/NIN will be ineffiecient and restrictive. While you may actually find parties that let you sub /nin, there is really no point.

I'd agree that RDM/NIN isn't optimal in most situations, but theoretically it may be possible to justify a DD/support hybrid at merit level. At lower levels, though, it is amply proven that RDM can function as DD, so can RDM/NIN.

/BLM (hell, /WHM even) and nuking will get you more points on the DD parser than meleeing. YOu will have access to crap WS's, while other DD's have half decent ones.

With the right gears, low level melee'ing RDM/WHM who MB on SC will do better damage over time than than a pure nuking one. I'm reasonably sure about this, since I've out DD'ed a good BLM (but barely) in Yhoator Jungle. (We were both Mithra and well geared.)

Also, keep in mind that en-spells are spectacularly efficient when it comes to dmg/MP; you will not find a better deal on spell damage in FFXI--but, you can't get that edge without melee'ing.

Giving the advantage of melee'ing (with en-spells) over nuking for damage, RDM/NIN will only do better than RDM/BLM and RDM/NIN as DD.

In truth, the real limit on MP damage is MP recovery. Given equal MP recovery, the difference between RDM/NIN nuking and RDM/WHM nuking is not that big.

It would take a very high calibre RDM to pull this off in a way where you could argue /NIN - and there arent a lot of those around. Especially pre-merit levels.

I think you've totally forgot the Lv.18 to high Lv.30's range where RDM has access to some decent swords and where the B ranking doesn't sink accuracy completely. Well equipped RDM can be a strong DD or at least part-time DD into level 40's--just never invited for that.

That said, some of the equipment needed to keep up with good melees aren't that cheap (e.g. Republic Sword on the low end, Peacock Charm on the high end) or easy to obtain (Auriga Xiphos--took me 32 or 33 tries to get that).

[Icemage]

Re: rdm/nin

The only time RDM/NIN might be appropriate for a party is if you're the puller in a manaburn party at level 54+.

Since manaburn parties are rarer than hen's teeth these days, I'll leave the educated reader to figure out how often it's actually a good idea to use /NIN.

Bottom line: If you don't want to be that pimply faced guy who gets picked last for dodgeball, don't use RDM/NIN.


Icemage

[Fynlar]

Re: rdm/nin

People will still invite you for Refresh.

Most people don't notice all the stuff a RDM does. There's a saying that if someone notices a RDM, he's doing something wrong.

That being said though, you will likely be more satisfied with your OWN abilities and capabilities if you use a proper utility sub, and in most cases this will be /WHM, /BLM, or even /BRD or /BLU, depending.

[Feba]

Re: rdm/nin

If you have to ask, you DEFINITELY don't have what it takes to make a non cookie-cutter combo work. Level RDM/Mage.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: rdm/nin

If you have to ask, you DEFINITELY don't have what it takes to make a non cookie-cutter combo work.

There's no fault in asking if one doesn't know or understand something.

Besides, the OP already wrote:

so basically the only real way to pt with rdm is if you have whm sub, lol

[Callisto]

Re: rdm/nin

Hehe, of course I was the guy who didn't have a sub outside of WAR or DRK until level 67, b/c I hated leveling the magey subs. I will say that you will just have an easier time using a more party appropriate sub. Could I main heal as /DRK? Absolutely. Could I have an infinitely easier time main healing as /WHM? Definitely.

Of course most to all of our RDMs here will tell you that there isn't a sub for RDM. You should have WHM, BLM, DRK, NIN, WAR, THF and possibly BRD up to 37 by the time you're 75, because different subs excel at different applications.

Of course this wouldn't be a RDM post from me if I didn't say that macro swaps fix everything, go-go melee RDM!!