Vorpal Blade!

[Callisto]

Ok...time for me to live up to WM3K's sig I suppose, I've been wanting to figure this out for awhile now. I'd like to find the best WS setup to use as RDM in order to max my Vorpal Blade damage, so I'm going to run the numbers here and see if I can figure it out. First I'll do it using an Aht Urghan Attercop as a target, then using a Greater Colibri. I'm kind of just using this thread as a notepad to show my work, so that you guys can hopefully point out if I go wrong somewhere, this is the first time I've really done any Attack/WS damage math on my own.

Soooo first off, let's figure out what I'm working with:

Aht Urghan Attercop - LVL 64 - WAR/WAR(Actually I think it may be THF/THF because these things have a ridiculous crit rate against me for easy preys, but THF has same VIT so w/e.)

Spiders have E ranked VIT, and WAR has D ranked according to Ghobli's info...so I show it having 59 VIT:

VIT = (3 + (63 * .3)) + (3 + (63 *.35)) + (3 + (31 * .35))
VIT = 21 + 25 + 13
VIT = 59

I also come up with 236 Def if it is a WAR:

Def = 126 + (14 * 4.5) + 8 + (59/2) + 10
Def = 126 + 63 + 8 + 29 + 10
Def = 236

Now for my stats...My current Melee/WS setup is:

Enhancing Sword
Tariqah+1
Lightning Bow+1
Optical Hat
Chivalrous Chain
Antivenom Earring
Hollow Earring
Assault Jerkin
Tarasque Mitts
Ruby Ring x2
Amemet Mantle
Life Belt
Duelist's Tights
Crimson Greaves

This brings me to 72+12 STR and 379 Atk as RDM/DRK with Enspells up.

Soooo my fSTR would come out to 12:

fSTR = (dSTR + 4)/2
fSTR = 29/2
fSTR = 14.5, but Enhancing Sword is a rank 4 weapon, so my fSTR would cap at 12

My cRatio would be:

cRatio = 379/236
cRatio = 1.6059

This would make my PDIFs:

PDIFMax = 1.6059 * 1.2 = 1.927
PDIFMaxCrit = 1.927 + 1 = 2.927
PDIFMin = 1.927 - .8 = 1.127
PDIFMinCrit = 1.127 + 1 = 2.127

Here's where I come to a slight bump that I could use your guys' help on...if I want to find what my average damage would be, can I just take my max and min PDIFs added together divided by 2, and use that as an average PDIF going forward?

Anyways I need to do some actually work at my job so I'll come back to this in a bit, if anyone can answer this question for me that'd be sweet.

[Armando]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

Attercops are definetely WAR/WAR, otherwise they wouldn't double attack. That aside, I've checked their Defense before through /check.

I'm going to assume your numbers are right for now, as I really don't have time to take this post apart at the moment. Yes, it's pretty safe to take average of the min/max PDIFs. Vorpal seems to have Crit Rate +20% at 100 TP, which most of the time means 25% crit rate (-/+ 1% or so.) So what you do is take the number of hits in Vorpal and multiply it by 0.75 (the percentage of the hits that won't crit) and multiply that by the average PDIF. Then take the number of hits, multiply it by 0.25 and again by the average of your critical PDIFs. Add 'em up and multiply them by your hit rate.

By the way, PDIF got changed slightly in the last update.

EDIT: Oh, and obviously also multiply by your total DMG >_> For the sake of clarity, you'd have...
[(DMG * PDIF ave * 4 * 0.75) + (DMG * crit PDIF ave * 4 * 0.25)] * Hit Rate

Crits can now go up to 3.15 PDIF.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

Yeah let me know, Callisto. My Vorpal Blades on RDM SUCK ASS, while on PLD they're much more uber.

Which I think is wierd, but I don't exactly have a Haubergeon on RDM..

[Callisto]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

Attercops are definetely WAR/WAR, otherwise they wouldn't double attack. That aside, I've checked their Defense before through /check.

I'm going to assume your numbers are right for now, as I really don't have time to take this post apart at the moment. Yes, it's pretty safe to take average of the min/max PDIFs. Vorpal seems to have Crit Rate +20% at 100 TP, which most of the time means 25% crit rate (-/+ 1% or so.) So what you do is take the number of hits in Vorpal and multiply it by 0.75 (the percentage of the hits that won't crit) and multiply that by the average PDIF. Then take the number of hits, multiply it by 0.25 and again by the average of your critical PDIFs. Add 'em up and multiply them by your hit rate.

By the way, PDIF got changed slightly in the last update.

Thanks a bunch, and yeah I gathered that from other posts I've seen, but until I see more #'s from people's tests I was going to use the old PDIF formula, as this looking for what gear will best suit Vorpal, I don't think much will be different using the old #'s.

[Callisto]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

So moving on, we'll take our averaged PDIFs:

PDIFAvg = (1.92 + 1.12)/2 = 1.52
PDIFAvgCrit = (2.92 + 2.12)/2 = 2.52

So let's see what my average Vorpal would be like:

WSD = ((D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP) * PDIF(3 hits)
+
WSD = ((D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP) * PDIFCrit(1 hit)

My WSC would be ((84 * .3)) * .83), comes out to 20 rounded down. fTP of Vorpal is always 1, although a Thunder/Soil Gorget would make the first hit 1.1.

WSD = ((40 + 12 + 20) * 1) * 1.52) * 3
WSD = 109 * 3 = 327

WSDCrit = (72 * 1) * 2.52
WSDCrit = 181

WSDAvg = 508

From my experiences ingame, this is pretty much dead on. Not too hot for fighting an Easy Prey, so let's see what changes I can make to improve this!

First off, there's Souleater. Souleater will take off 10% of your current HP per hit, and convert half of that HP directly into damage. My HP as RDM/DRK is a bit over 1200, and Souleater calculates each hit on a multi-hit WS simultaneously, so I would be losing 40% of my HP, while having 20% added onto Vorpal Blade. Luckily Stoneskin will absorb most of the 480 damage done to myself, and Souleater will add 240 damage to the WS assuming all 4 hits land.

There are pretty much 3 things that I can tweak to affect the damage of Vorpal Blade: STR, Attack, and Critical Hit Rate.

My fSTR is capped already, so more STR won't help on that end. I do plan on upgrading my belt to a Potent Belt and my cape to an Amemet+1, but that extra 4 STR will only add 1 point to my WSC total. STR is probably not what we want to look at.

I'm an Elvaan RDM, outside of 4% from merits and 6% from a Dissector, there's not alot I can do to noticeably boost my Critical Hit Rate. I'll leave this option out.

So this leaves Attack. My PDIF leaves alot of room for improvent, especially if max PDIF got boosted to 3+ like I've heard rumors of. So let's see what I can do to affect Attack.

One dilemma I run into is that I could afford to give up 4~ STR in favor of some Attack against EP mobs without really altering my fSTR, however most pieces that give large Attack boosts do not share slots with pieces that give large STR boosts. Instead, they share slots with pieces that give Accuracy, the only thing a melee RDM hurts more for than Attack. Against an Easy Prey you should be able to give up 20~ Accuracy without hurting yourself much, but against Greater Colibri might be a different story. We'll get to that later.

So let's say I ditch the Optical Hat, Crimson Greaves and Life Belt, and pick up some Ogre Ledelsens, an Ogre Mask, and a Swordbelt. Only about a 26k~ investment total, not too bad for testing purposes.

This will bring my Attack up to 409, giving me a cRatio of 1.73, giving me PDIFs of:

PDIFMax: 2.07
PDIFMin: 1.27
PDIFAvg: 1.67
PDIFMaxCrit: 3.00
PDIFMinCrit: 2.27
PDIFAvgCrit: 2.63

My new average Vorpal Blade comes out to:

WSD = ((72 * 1.67) * 3) + (72 * 2.63)
WSD = 360 + 189
WSD = 549(789 w/ Souleater)

Not a huge improvement, so let's keep going a bit, and tack on Last Resort. It gives around a 15% increase to Attack, which would bring me to about 469. My new cRation is 1.98, making my new PDIFs:

PDIFMax: 2.37
PDIFMin: 1.57
PDIFAvg: 1.97
PDIFMaxCrit: 3.00
PDIFMinCrit: 2.57
PDIFAvgCrit: 2.78

Using the old PDIF formula, we've nearly capped PDIF on an easy prey mob. Let's see how that turns into damage:

WSD = 72 * 1.97 * 3 + 72 * 2.78
WSD = 425 + 200 = 625(865 w/ Souleater)

You can't have Last Resort up on every single WS though, so let's try something more plausible, like Attack Food. I personally use Coeurl Subs, they add 5 STR and 20% Attack with a cap of 75 Attack. This would bring my Attack to 484, and the 5 STR would add 2 more to my WSC. The new cRatio would be capped at 2.0, and the PDIFs would be:

PDIFMax: 2.40
PDIFMin: 1.60
PDIFAvg: 2.00
PDIFMaxCrit: 3.00
PDIFMinCrit: 2.60
PDIFAvgCrit: 2.80

So the new damage would be:

WSD = 74 * 2.00 * 3 + 74 * 2.80
WSD = 444 + 207 = 651(891 w/ Souleater)

That's pretty much the best we can do with one critical hit, so let's see what the combinations would be with more than one crit:

@379 Attack(no food, current gear)

2 Crits
WSD = 72 * 1.52 * 2 + 72 * 2.52 * 2
WSD = 218 + 362 = 580(820 w/ Souleater)

3 Crits
WSD = 72 * 1.52 + 72 * 2.52 * 3
WSD = 109 + 544 = 653(893 w/ Souleater)

4 Crits
WSD = 72 * 2.52 * 4
WSD = 725(965 w/ Souleater)

@409 Attack(no food, w/ more Attack gear)

2 Crits
WSD = 72 * 1.67 * 2 + 72 * 2.63 * 2
WSD = 240 + 378 = 618(858 w/ Souleater)

3 Crits
WSD = 72 * 1.67 + 72 * 2.63 * 3
WSD = 120 + 568 = 688(928 w/ Souleater)

4 Crits
WSD = 72 * 2.63 * 4
WSD = 757(997 w/ Souleater)

@484 Attack(Coeurl Subs and more Attack Gear

2 Crits
WSD = 74 * 2.00 * 2 + 74 * 2.80 * 2
WSD = 296 + 414 = 710(950 w/ Souleater)

3 Crits
WSD = 74 * 2.00 + 74 * 2.80 * 3
WSD = 148 + 621 = 769 (1009 w/ Souleater)

4 Crits
WSD = 74 * 2.80 * 4
WSD = 828(1068 w/ Souleater)

So what this all boils down to, if you're looking to max Vorpal against Easy Preys, once you have your STR higher than around 80-82, you should probably be looking to raise your Attack by large quantities. I'll revise all of this once I get some info on how PDIF has changed in the recent updates, if you guys see something that I goofed on please point it out. Next I'll take a look at a RDM's Vorpal vs. Greater Colibri!

[Callisto]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

From what I've seen the PDIF is only changed on 2H, I've tried asking around if people have seen it changed on 1H as well, but unfortunately the folks on BG are pretentious dildos, so I couldn't get an answer. I guess I can test this tonight or this weekend, I didn't really want to give up my valuable COR xp time for it, but w/e.

[Armando]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/new...-sep-10-a.html

Normal hits
Old: 1.6 to 2.4
New: (1.58 or 1.59) to (2.42 or 2.43)

Crits
Old: 2.6 to 3.0
New: (2.58 or 2.59)? to (3.14 or 3.15)

The question mark is because I couldn't confirm this, but the sample size was small enough that it's very likely I didn't see the smallest value. I doubt they've changed how crits work.

[Callisto]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

Cool, so mostly only the crit cap changed significantly? I'll rework those #'s above using these when I get a chance.

Edit: Any idea if they changed the cRatio cap or the 1.2 multipler? They'd have to change one of those two to get it to a higher non-crit PDIF right?

[Callisto]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

The #'s I'm seeing tossed around for 1H are 2.46 for normal and 3.15 for crits. An adjustment to the cRatio cap making it 2.05 would bring PDIF to 2.46 without altering the 1.2 conversion #, that'd be my not-really-educated guess. Not sure about the minimums though, maybe they changed the # that you subtract to get it.

I'll spend some time whacking things outside of Jeuno before Limbus tonight. I really wish they made parsers for 360, I guess I'll just have to record stuff by hand.

[nanatsu]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

Yeah let me know, Callisto. My Vorpal Blades on RDM SUCK ASS, while on PLD they're much more uber.
Which I think is wierd, but I don't exactly have a Haubergeon on RDM..

There's nothing really odd about it is there? PLD has higher str and sword skill than RDM to begin with, right?

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

BUT MY PLD IS LVL 60!!!

>.<

WTH

I do more Damage in EXP than I do farming.

Sometimes.

WTH.

[Callisto]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

Coincidentally enough, my Vorpals usually hit harder than most of my PLD friends' when we're goofing around, but I probably swap in more Acc/Atk/STR than they do. If they geared for DD they'd definitely outdo me.

At any rate I was posed the question of if a RDM can cap out PDIF on EM+ mobs, I've figured that alone they can't, they just don't have enough huge Attack boost pieces, however with double Minuet or a decent Chaos Roll, a RDM can top 600 Attack, which should be good enough for cap PDIF on most Even Match mobs outside of Crabs.

A RDM can likely never cap it on VTs, but I never said I wanted to be a true dedicated DD, I'm just trying to get it as good as I can, because even if a RDM is a 2nd or 3rd tier DD, they'd still be a 2nd or 3rd tier DD who can Refresh, Dispel, Haste, and Enfeeble; and no other job can claim that.

If your RDM is consistently cranking out 400 a pop on weaponskills against a VT while not being a detriment to the party in any way, I don't see how anyone could argue that they shouldn't be doing so. Unfortunately, these days of course the masses have devolved into "RDM should only ever be using /WHM and main healing because they suck at DD"(I literally heard this come from someone last night, a player who was rank 5 and had 56 RDM as their highest job.)

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

Callisto, I stopped taking my friend's advice, because neither of them are RDMs.

So they can lick nuts. If I feel I can add to the party by Meleeing, I will. But I don't see a benefit with my current gear.

WHERE THE HELL WERE YOU WHEN I WAS MAKING THAT DD RDM THREAD WITH HYRIST?

[Sevv]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

Callisto, I stopped taking my friend's advice, because neither of them are RDMs.
So they can lick nuts. If I feel I can add to the party by Meleeing, I will. But I don't see a benefit with my current gear.
WHERE THE HELL WERE YOU WHEN I WAS MAKING THAT DD RDM THREAD WITH HYRIST?

And if I feel like laughing/kicking the rdm for not keeping up I will.

[Callisto]

Re: Vorpal Blade!

And if I feel like laughing/kicking the rdm for not keeping up I will.

LoL, trying to figure if you mean in terms of RDM duties such as Refresh/Dispel, or in terms of DD output. Or maybe both?