Guess what time it is!?!?

[WishMaster3K]

Well as a few of you might know, I'm leveling PLD right now. Which means that for the next BULK of the exp grind, to do anything effective I'll have to rely on Refresh, and more often than not that means RDM.

I like to think I'm a pretty decent RDM. RDM isn't a hard job, it really isn't. In fact, I've broken down Refresh based on the in-game clock, and you'd have to be a special blend of retarded herbs and spices to mess up a Refresh cycle after understanding the way I do it.

Which is why it BAFFLES me as to why there are so many sucky RDMs.

I'll just post the pictures and let them speak for themselves. I'll edit them in Paint because I frankly don't feel like loading up PS.



I've been playing this game too long to baby sit other players, and I'm not going to lecture someone how to properly do a job (Get BBQ for that, he has WAY more tolerance than me, and I think he likes it, to be honest >_>).

PT was PLD BLU BLU BLM BRD RDM, 52-55 (yeah it was TERRIBLE, because I was the lowest level) and we were fighting on Robber Crabs. If I didn't have Refresh on a constant basis, I can be sure that the other PT members didn't. The BRD was working her ass off, for her part, but we had to do Madrigal and Minuet, and resort to Ballad only after fights.

But seriously, is it THAT hard to read a forum or ask around about a job you plan on doing? I mean good lord. Maybe she was overwhelmed with all the responsibilities, so I understand slipping every now and then (For the record, I constantly DIDN'T have Refresh, but I was willing to be patient.. until I saw that)... but not using Macros at lvl 53 is just ignorant.

Edit:
Am I wrong for complaining? Let me know. I have my own standards of the bare-minimum of what I'll accept from a RDM.. And maybe I'm just blowing it out of proportion because I feel I need Refresh to do my job to the fullest capacity. What's sad is that individually, the entire pt was decent/above-average, but the RDM's lack of . . . Intelligence dragged us down.

[fallenintoshadows]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

Peanut Butter Jelly time?

Well you handled it well as far as I'm concerned, you didn't shout at him like "omgwtf REFRESH ME NOW WHORE!" and you gave him advice, I refresh the same way you do and it's quite simple when you do it that way. Did he pick up after you gave him that advice or did he continue missing your refresh?

As for not using macros, don't judge entirely by that. I know a very good blm who's only macros is Stun and he plays his job incredibly well. However, seeing as they were pretty much failing they should of realised they needed to invest some time into making their macros. After all it's there to help you and make things easier and they said themselves they had a lot more to do now so it would definately help them.

You did need refresh, healing yourself helps you keep hate = better tank and it's a shame you didn't get it all the time and you went the right way about asking them about refresh and gave them advice. If they didn't pick it up after that then they would most likely be someone I would avoid partying with in the future unless they improved.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

No, that was the end of the pt. It turned out to be accidental actually, because the BLM gave me a Warp II instead of the BLU who asked for it. Ah well, I had a headache anyway.

[fallenintoshadows]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

X_x well let's just hope the rdm took what you said on board then, maybe the blm might learn to target properly too >_>

[KingOfZeal]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

I think that some people are very much able to handle a complicated job (and RDM is as complicated as they come) without macros. Those people know exactly where a spell is in their list, mostly because they sorted it themselves, or they can type faster as a command line than a macro, and they have a 6th sense about recast times. Those people make terrific players at any job and level.

However, by the same token, many people can't do it. This person was obviously one of them. Some of those (many) people also think they can handle a complex job without macros. This person also probably falls into that category. Those type of people generally come across as sucking at their job, which is obviously the attitude you are sending about this person in your post.

However, with all that said, Red Mage is still a complex job, and people still have reason for doing (or in some cases not doing) certain things. For example, filters: even when I was playing White Mage, the only thing I did to my filters was alter the "detrimental effect" color to orange. I kept all the numbers and everything else that was party/alliance-related, because I occasionally like to parse my parties.

I've also heard that for any Red Mage to be considered "good", often they will have 2-3 full macro sets, not to mention a consistent maxed out inventory/safe/storage/locker. What if someone is pressed for macro space? As it stands, I have full macro sets for WHM, SMN, BRD, PUP, my specialty "miscellaneous" (often chat-related) macros for which I'm well known, plus the various other macros I have for more specific, but still commonly used things, like summoning skillups/showing off. I'd imagine that all mage jobs, plus PLD, DRK, COR, and NIN, could easily fill up their own macro set (coincidentally, 10 jobs not counting RDM). If I have all those jobs leveled, I'm not going to log out just to save macro sets, and load an empty set just for RDM, especially if, say, I'm due in DieInMass after the party on WHM.

All I'm saying is that sometimes there are good reasons, and it seems like you didn't bother to see what theirs might have been.

[Zempten]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

lol

wait till they make you fight imps at 65/66 and don't have refresh or ballad for you =P Jesus it's hell.

Althought I'm surprised that the BRD didn't ask you to face your back to the mages so he could ballad you as well. Distance of ballad from testing is about 9.5-10 without a harp. We have a BRD in our static that lands ballad on the mages and PLD consistantly IF the mob doesn't have any dangerous AEs and even if it did I'm sure the BRD could have put a harp on to extend the range of ballad. I doubt the Robber Crabs had any "dangerous AEs". I mean Bubble Shower (I think that's why it is called) does how much? Under 100?

[Zempten]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

I think that some people are very much able to handle a complicated job (and RDM is as complicated as they come) without macros. Those people know exactly where a spell is in their list, mostly because they sorted it themselves, or they can type faster as a command line than a macro, and they have a 6th sense about recast times. Those people make terrific players at any job and level.

True but NOONE can type fast enough to swap in 6 equipment & cast a spell before it fires off. At least noone that I know of. That's why macros are ultimately the best - not to mention it'll help against corpal tuneel =P. I know some spells don't require swapping equipment and those are left for typing imo.

As far as macro space is concerned. It takes under 10 mins to remake a new macro set with some intilligent copying and pasting and a bit of typing. It takes about 5 mins to learn where those macros are. Basically what I do is keep a set for my NIN and THF and the rest I will always rewrite. In short there are excuses why things happen but there is no excuse why you shouldn't correct them.

P.S: Sorry for the 2 posts.

[KingOfZeal]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

Althought I'm surprised that the BRD didn't ask you to face your back to the mages so he could ballad you as well. Distance of ballad from testing is about 9.5-10 without a harp. We have a BRD in our static that lands ballad on the mages and PLD consistantly IF the mob doesn't have any dangerous AEs and even if it did I'm sure the BRD could have put a harp on to extend the range of ballad. I doubt the Robber Crabs had any "dangerous AEs". I mean Bubble Shower (I think that's why it is called) does how much? Under 100?

Just to point out, I was also thinking of pointing out that the BRD could well have landed Ballad instead of the RDM doing refresh, but I know from experience that unless everybody needs mp (or only 1-2 at most don't) it's better to have the precision of refresh than the blanket of ballad. Though, in this case, since everybody used MP, it probably would have been better.


Also, the range of any song cast with a horn is 9.9, and harps... well, harp range varies with your skill level. Not quite sure if the song effects the range of it as well, but it's doubtful. So when casting songs, especially when you need precision so you don't get people you aren't supposed to, it's not recommended to use a wildly inaccurate harp no matter how much boost on the range it is (there are a few times when it's acceptable, though).

True but NOONE can type fast enough to swap in 6 equipment & cast a spell before it fires off. At least noone that I know of. That's why macros are ultimately the best - not to mention it'll help against corpal tuneel (sic)=P. I know some spells don't require swapping equipment and those are left for typing imo.

As far as macro space is concerned. It takes under 10 mins to remake a new macro set with some intilligent copying and pasting and a bit of typing. It takes about 5 mins to learn where those macros are. Basically what I do is keep a set for my NIN and THF and the rest I will always rewrite. In short there are excuses why things happen but there is no excuse why you shouldn't correct them.

First: there's no reason to swap gear for Refresh, unless it's part of a very well-times cycle and you change gear to get ready for the next spell. However, even considering that, it's not really the point. I'm going to make myself VERY clear on this point: it is NOT necessary for a red mage (or any job for that matter) to swap gear for ANYTHING at ANY TIME. It is perfectly reasonable to get a balanced gear setup, which would help in any and all attributes you would do. However, since many people have the five hundred extra free lines in macros, they want to specialize in certain things at certain times (take MNK or any melee for example: He might have an ATK set and an ACC set, depending on what the target is).

Second: This is facing Rober Crabs, which are XP'd on in Kuftal Tunnel, and the levels were 52-55. Kuftal Tunnel (and 52-55) is where people start to wear their AF, and during those levels there isn't much (if any) gear swapping anyway because your AF is almost always the best gear you can get pre-60. You can easily put off macros until 60-65, when most RDM's (and other jobs) start seriously swapping.

Last, regarding macro sets: I would argue you are in the minority there. I spent my entire time as WHM (2 years) perfecting my macro set -- it's doubtful if I could even recreate it because of the little nuances. Same thing goes with many of my macros, including (but not limited to) PUP, SMN and BRD. When it comes time for me to try to find free space for a new set, it's difficult. The only way I'd be able to really level all jobs would be to use the three built-in macro sets saves, even though I would have to log out if I decided to level a different job and had to load a different set.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

Each time I ask myself "How do you screw up with a job like RDM, BRD or COR?" it basically breaks down to this:

See Refresh ability.
See Dispel ability.
ZOMGInvite! Thier other jobs never got those!

And that's basically it. They could research, they could learn to be the most effective they can be, but they have fallen to the Dark Side of being a support class.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

it is NOT necessary for a red mage (or any job for that matter) to swap gear for ANYTHING at ANY TIME.

My allergies flared.when you got to this point. I was swapping gear as early as level 10, when I would switch out Eremites for Saintly. Then I got pieces of gear such as Deveotee's Mitts, and I'd have to Macro them out for my RSE hands when I cast an INT spell, then I got the different body pieces in the late 30s (one had INT and one had MND, I forget the names) that I switched out. Then before Red Cape, I had Black and White capes respectively.

And even then, with the max gear I had for my level and race, and food, there were times that my spells would be resisted, or times that my nukes would be terrible.

And then I got to level 40 and I needed a Convert Gear Setup.

And then I got to 41 and Refresh came into play, and I needed to keep track of it across anywhere from 3-5 additional people.

Then I got the 48 and I needed to incorporate Haste.

Then I got to 51 and I started using Elemental staves.

KoZ, you are an intelligent poster, but don't say things like what I just quoted. There is no reason for the RDM in question to have Dark Stave on 100% of the time, miss Refresh, late cure (I saw Wild Carrot cast on me more than Cure 3), and do (or in their case, not do) what I saw that night.

While there isn't a need of macros, refusing to use them is ignorant.

You can compare NINs, THFs- hell, ANY job side by side to a macro user and a non-macro user and see which one outperforms the other.

All the time.

And you know that, indicated by your follow up to the quote (in regards to the MNK, etc etc) and your tooling of your WHM gear set.

I have 2 points to say to that though:
1) True, it is hard, but it's not impossible. I spent the majority of my career (1-75) as a RDM on PS2, and about 8 or so months beyond that on a PC w/o the use of windower. My spell lines alwawys had at least the Spell, and the Stave. Right there I only had 4 possible pieces of equipment I could switch, so generally, it wasn't that hard to do 51-72. Then I got to Errant and Wise levels and it was a nightmare. But it still wasn't impossible.

2) Now that I use windower, I can save my macro sets and just type them in, and they take up one line. Hell, I just have a general "MND-Enfeebling" and "INT-Enfeebling" set, and all I need to type in are the staves and the spell and the command.

If I'm so inclined, I use the same line of commands, just minus the spell for solo macros.

And I realize that I'm being very overbearing on my position, but I'm very passionate about my main job, and I HATE seeing young RDMs watering the class down, and other people just giving them excuses.

There is so much information online, there is no excuse to be ignorant and retarded. Yes, I'm broke too, but for the record, I have no sky abjurations, no "uber" gear and I manage just fine, and I can still hit a Convert Ratio of 1000/1000 at least.

Oh any typing in your spells in the line and going to your menu to switch gear is just retarded, I don't care who you are.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

At low levels, I didn't macro gear heavily for RDM or BRD, but when I got past the point of 40ish, where both jobs really start to open up in gear, I always made it a point to have various gear for various slots.

BRD had instrument macros from the earliest levels and they only grew more and more complex over time. Eventually, I'd put in things like singing skill gear directly into my buff macros, CHR was relegated to debuff macros. And it was the same for RDM. INT and MND gear were placed in the respective spells I cast. Staves for both jobs went with thier proper spells.

There wasn't spell cast or song sung that didn't at least come with three equipment changes and no job I've levelled since has been any different. None. All my jobs have something.

And COR is no different save for staves. I can't mix up staves in macro due to potential TP loss, but I bring the ones I feel I need for the situation. I actually have more gear changes on COR and RNG than I ever did RDM or BRD. I have at least five gear changes for a ranged attack, five for Quick Draws and even STR build I throw in for Slug Shot. And now I've started a MND build for both because of RNG's already lovely Holy Bolt build and I just got Savage Blade to play off that build. Did I mention the AGI build for COR, need AGI build, too.

So I have elemental Staves, elemental cards, working on Elemental obis, I have dozens of earrings, an MP build and there will always be more. The only day I'll be able to ease up with COR is when I get Denali Set and Skadi Set complete and I'm not even started on those.

[Rain_Blade]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

Just to point out, I was also thinking of pointing out that the BRD could well have landed Ballad instead of the RDM doing refresh, but I know from experience that unless everybody needs mp (or only 1-2 at most don't) it's better to have the precision of refresh than the blanket of ballad. Though, in this case, since everybody used MP, it probably would have been better.


Also, the range of any song cast with a horn is 9.9, and harps... well, harp range varies with your skill level. Not quite sure if the song effects the range of it as well, but it's doubtful. So when casting songs, especially when you need precision so you don't get people you aren't supposed to, it's not recommended to use a wildly inaccurate harp no matter how much boost on the range it is (there are a few times when it's acceptable, though).



First: there's no reason to swap gear for Refresh, unless it's part of a very well-times cycle and you change gear to get ready for the next spell. However, even considering that, it's not really the point. I'm going to make myself VERY clear on this point: it is NOT necessary for a red mage (or any job for that matter) to swap gear for ANYTHING at ANY TIME. It is perfectly reasonable to get a balanced gear setup, which would help in any and all attributes you would do. However, since many people have the five hundred extra free lines in macros, they want to specialize in certain things at certain times (take MNK or any melee for example: He might have an ATK set and an ACC set, depending on what the target is).

Second: This is facing Rober Crabs, which are XP'd on in Kuftal Tunnel, and the levels were 52-55. Kuftal Tunnel (and 52-55) is where people start to wear their AF, and during those levels there isn't much (if any) gear swapping anyway because your AF is almost always the best gear you can get pre-60. You can easily put off macros until 60-65, when most RDM's (and other jobs) start seriously swapping.

Last, regarding macro sets: I would argue you are in the minority there. I spent my entire time as WHM (2 years) perfecting my macro set -- it's doubtful if I could even recreate it because of the little nuances. Same thing goes with many of my macros, including (but not limited to) PUP, SMN and BRD. When it comes time for me to try to find free space for a new set, it's difficult. The only way I'd be able to really level all jobs would be to use the three built-in macro sets saves, even though I would have to log out if I decided to level a different job and had to load a different set.

...

[Kirsteena]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

I'm going to make myself VERY clear on this point: it is NOT necessary for a red mage (or any job for that matter) to swap gear for ANYTHING at ANY TIME.

Excuse me while I introduce my head to this convenient desk.




No no no no no no no. I'm going to hunt you down and make you understand macro changes. Hell I macro change for refresh, haste and cure....

[Malacite]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

Even if you're good without using macros, you should still use them.

I don't care how skilled you are, no one can make gear swaps as for a spell or WS or what you (along with the timing of abilities) with same speed and precision as a well written macro.

[tdh]

Re: Guess what time it is!?!?

"Hi. My name's Odude, and I'm a Blinker."

I've had equip swaps since Lv.31, I currently have 80 macros for RDM, and even my Refresh macro has equip swaps (Haste & Fast Cast gear).

Pre-Lv.31, I did minimal equip swaps. I started the fight out with a INT/MND Club, cast my enfeebles, then switched to Sword to melee. I was always typing out my spells, but since I type so fast, it wasn't an issue. Then I found out that I could swap all my rings, earrings, gloves, or weapon for spells, so I went to macros. I'm not saying you HAVE to have equipment swaps, but honestly the boost to your performance is worth being a Blinker.

I'd say Lv.51, if you haven't taken to equipment swaps, then you're not even trying. Rings, gloves, staves, etc; Blah, blah, blah - gear doesn't make the man, but let's not play like it's so trivial a difference. RDM in MP only gear & no Macros Vs. a RDM with Elemental staves, INT & MND build & more macros than J.C. himself. Who do you think is gonna land Gravity, Paralyze, Slow, Sleep, etc much better?

I too use the clock for my Refresh cycle, but I didn't always know about it. I used to start my cycle over when my Refresh wore off. I wish somebody would have told me in the 50's about this technique, like W3k did. We all hate the "know~it~all" who gives you the tell "I'm BLAH75, I know what I'm talking about, do it like this" as if the game just came out yesterday; but at some point I thought the weakest links were supposed to be weeded out. I guess this doesn't apply to OMGlolRDM & OMGlolBRD. Such a requirement for so many parties, you'll take a piss poor one over none at all.