Broken Enfeebling Magic...

[Callisto]

Ok, this has been bothering the absolute crap out of me for awhile. When fighting some of the more premiere fights in the game, it is really starting to seem that even with equivalent skill, RDM is getting the short end of the stick in regards to their Enfeebling Magic.

The largest two examples I have are my recent fights against Promathia, and the Apocalypse Nigh brothers. Now these are supposed to be hard fights, and I don't expect landing spells to be a gimme, but there's a point where I say 'Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.'

Both strategies call for Gravity kiting generally, and the guides never really say that Elemental Seal is a must to land the spell, so I'm assuming someone has had some luck landing it without ES.

In 6 fights against Promathia, I was /WHM to help with Erase/-nas and curing Prishe. I landed Gravity maybe a total of 3 times among 6 fights. For AN, I go as /DRK so that I can Chainstun the younger brother. I have yet to land a single Gravity, though our BLM was able to with ES. I did beat Promathia on the 6th, currently 0/2 on AN, we got it down to 3% but we were kind of underprepared in terms of meds and RR.

My enfeebles in general have been crap. I was able to land Slow on Promathia, and nothing else. I haven't had time to really do anything but Gravity, Stun, and Cure on AN, but the few paralyzes I tossed out got resisted, on Iceday.

I don't exactly have bad gear. I'm 8/8 on Enfeebling merits, I have several equip sets, but generally my debuffing set consists of:

Austere's Staff(borrowed )
Phantom Tathlum
Warlock's Chapeau
Enfeebling Torque
Enfeebling Earring
Moldavite Earring
Warlock's Tabard
Duelist's Gloves
Hale Ring
Tamas Ring
Prism Cape
Penitent's Rope
Warlock's Tights
Duelist's Boots

This puts my Enfeebling Magic at 317 when the spells fire, and my stat boost at INT+26 and MND +24. I'd also have +15 macc for wind from the Austere's Staff. Yet I cannot land a Gravity without Elemental Seal for my life on these mobs, which are supposed to be 'susceptible' to it.

I'm wondering if it's something I'm doing wrong, or if it's just something that RDM gets shafted on, because DD with equivalent skill levels on their weapons, and BLMs with similar Elemental Magic don't seem to have anywhere near this much trouble landing their respective attacks.

Thoughts?

[Gobo]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

Chalk it up as a "Zuh?!"

Enfeebling magic is one of those things that isn't an exact science like other magic skills. Skill doesn't always equate to success rate of sticking spells. I've Silenced Kirin more as a SMN/WHM than I have as a RDM. (Done the same to Mini-Suzaku heh). I can stick Slow II to Jimmy and Para II to Ouryu as well as someone who has approx equivalent gear who has enfeeb merits (I have none).

Susceptible doesn't mean it will always stick, just means it CAN stick. Take the Kirin example. Its susceptible to silence, but its sure as hard as hell to stick, though by game mechanics (its an earth type mob) it should be easy.

Curious as to what your strat is for the AN BC. Obviously you start with CS-Stun, melee going balls to walls on the older (he is smaller, but is actually the older one) brother, while someone kites other brother. Do you then just kite and kill the other one (he stops to cast enough that Gravity shouldn't be needed, while being kited to avoid Great Wheel spamming)?

Oh, you really don't need to heal Prishe. She can take care of herself pretty well, plus you can raise her if she "dies."

[Mhurron]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

it's just something that RDM gets shafted on

Yep.

Skill doesn't always equate to success rate of sticking spells. I've Silenced Kirin more as a SMN/WHM than I have as a RDM. (Done the same to Mini-Suzaku heh). I can stick Slow II to Jimmy and Para II to Ouryu as well as someone who has approx equivalent gear who has enfeeb merits (I have none).

That's pretty much the definition of broken.

[Callisto]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

Susceptible doesn't mean it will always stick, just means it CAN stick. Take the Kirin example. Its susceptible to silence, but its sure as hard as hell to stick, though by game mechanics (its an earth type mob) it should be easy.

Haha, just a side note, I've gotten Garuda's Dagger to proc on Kirin more than I've landed actual Silences.

Curious as to what your strat is for the AN BC. Obviously you start with CS-Stun, melee going balls to walls on the older (he is smaller, but is actually the older one) brother, while someone kites other brother. Do you then just kite and kill the other one (he stops to cast enough that Gravity shouldn't be needed, while being kited to avoid Great Wheel spamming)?

We had some trouble kiting the larger one, although he does stop to cast he can occassionally wipe out the kiter with Light Blade, this happened on our first two runs, we were RDM WHM PLD PLD DRK SAM, doing dry runs. The 3rd run we were same setup, but with a BLM/RDM instead of a WHM. BLM opens w/ ES gravity, one PLD vokes and kites the bigger bro. 2nd PLD grabs the smaller, we fire off a SC to get it to about 75%. The SAM uses MS and does his thing, I start chainstunning when he starts his. We wiped the smaller out easily like this, then straight tanked the larger. He did do a triple Great Wheel, although it didn't do a ton of damage, only the DRK got knocked down by it. The BLM used Manafont and tossed out 2 AM2s, then spammed cures for the rest of the duration, I tried to rest MP at this point. Another 2 Great Wheels knocked down the SAM, he RR'd. We got it down to 3% before we all pretty much ran out of MP, I had 67 left and couldn't fire off a Bio before I went down, it probably would have finished him if I could've gotten it, pretty much any WS or spell would've.

This run-through was kind of impromptu though, we had no pots/ethers/ica wings, I had no food left, and the BLM had no Echos on him(we had to trade in the middle of the fight lol ). Tonight we're going back at it with the same strategy, except fully prepared, I don't think we'll have a problem winning this time.

[Gobo]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

Well if the shoe fits go with it I guess. Only suggestions I could really make would be if you're still having trouble would be to have one of the PLDs change to a melee (if they have it) for more damage to kill the smaller one faster and just constantly kite the bigger one even after the smaller one is dead. Light Blade should give reduced damage the farther you are away.

[Callisto]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

He actually only used Light Blade once or twice once we started fighting him after dispatching the smaller, and by then it was fine b/c I was able to move to Cure duty instead of Stun duty. I'd definately take Light Blade over Great Wheel spam, it's much easier for me to Cure bomb a single PLD than spread around several cures to the DDs. We'll see how tonight goes though, if it doesn't work out we'll have to make some adjustments to our plan.

[Gobo]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

Then all I'll say is good luck!

Now back on topic...if there is anything else to say than restate that enfeebling magic is broken.

[Callisto]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

Did the fight again last night, this time on windsday, still no dice on the Gravity or other debuffs. We did absolutely destroy the fight though, so I'll have a Hollow Earring waiting for me when I get home.

I guess it's just certain fights that enfeebling just isn't going on. I did Limbus right after AN, and didn't see a single spell resisted the entire run. I can't say it's 'unfair' that you can't debuff the mobs in these really hard fights, because they're supposed to be really hard. I guess my main issue is that it leaves you as pretty much a refresher and backup cure, maybe tossing out a few stuns here and there; and nothing else. If you can't land your A+ skill spells on the mob, your nukes probably aren't going to fare too well either. And refresh whoring is just downright boring. :/

[Gobo]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

Grats on winning.

Nuking (as a RDM) wasn't that great. I won ours with a Blizard III, but it was 1/2 resisted. Wouldn't mind going back now and trying to see how strong my nukes are now that I have better nuking gear.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

Enfeebling magic has such a bad relative return rate no matter how high you stack it, it seems.

It's almost disheartening to even bother waiting in the queue for highly coveted gear, because it has little-to-no effect on end/game mobs and it's unnecessary on exp/merit mobs.

But grats on the gear. I probably won't be getting any RDM Dynamis or RDM End-game gear that isn't buyable or dropped from an NM I can solo, because I can't invest the time I want to into those activities. Well maybe not NOW, I JUST beat Ouryu last night, so who knows.. in due time I suppose..

And it seems that even with the gear you have, your results on Kirin and others aren't so different from my own, with my menial budget.

Just chalk it up to the game, and realize that if you do hit the coveted 350 point of Enfeebling, you'll be at a 1/5 ratio on Kirin instead of a 1/15. Which is better than nothing, because 1 successful Gravity every 5 minutes over the course of a 45min-1hour fight is a good thing.

[Callisto]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

I'm not doing anything more for my Enfeebling other than trying for the AF2 hat, and that is more about completing my AF2 set than any of the pieces themselves, I've been 4/5 forever already, and I want to store the damn things when I level other jobs ; so I feasibly could max my Enfeebling at 332. I do hope that WoTG does bring some nice IT+ exp camps with it, so that enfeebling magic and MBs in xp can make a comeback. I don't really plan on doing Sky again unless I quit Dynamis(I'm already at 4 nights a week with events between Dynamis and Limbus, and I still want to have some semblance of a life outside of the game XD), and I have a day job so HNM is out for the most part. I don't run into huge mobs that I need to debuff that often anymore, it'd be sweet to have some added that not only would debuffs help on, but would actually stick on. I'll be fighting Proto-Ultima/Omega for the first time in a couple of weeks, so we'll see how the enfeebling goes in there.

[hongman]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

Last Kirin we done, I had just got my Auster's Staff. Gravity landed for 80% on both Kirins. And I only have 304 Enfeebling. And /DRK. (actually maybe the +INT from DRK helped....)

Got another one tonight, which Ill be subbing /DRK for, I'll be aiming to do the same again. Bind occasionally sticks as well, which is a god send for the kiters.

Might even eat an Icarus Wing and do a Last Resort + Soul Eater + Heavy Swing if I feel brave....

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

YEAH! Amen to that, Callisto. I have a 9-5, things to do at home (trying to get the basement redone), a very fantastic girlfriend and when school starts, fraternity duties.

So even though it's the summer, I never have enough time to do "endgame," and when school starts, I'll have LESS free time.

So find out about enfeebling for me and tell me how it works out for you, because unless there is a significant change that's noticeable, I don't see the point to rearrange my schedule just so I can sneak in some FFXI activities.

And holy shyt, I capped Ice magic, only to never see another MB in my life.

WTH.

-_-. I kind of miss 3 Mage + 3 Melee pts, to be honest.

1 Tank, two DDs, me, WHM and BLM... SC at 80%, then the dual MB almost killing the mob, and melees getting TP to be able to open up at the next fight.

When we talk about the "good ol days" for us (lolGarlaige Trains, Zoning into CN and getting pounded on by Crawler Hunters, etc..) then we should talk about how awesome Lufaise was.

Oh.. I just ranted, didn't I. I think I did.

[Callisto]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

Haha, it's acceptable. And yeah, I dinged 75 on Abraxes and Tav Rams, and I miss that camp!

I will say that greater enfeebling magic does definitely make a noticeable difference in most things. Since most of us are familiar with the Kirin fight, that's a goode example. Before I had merited enfeebling magic, I really couldn't land crap on Kirin, I was just there to MB, refresh, and backup cure for the most part. After tacking on the +16 skill from merits, my sticking rate went up noticeably. I'm sure if I had AF2 hat for another +15, it would go up even more noticeably, but the main issue is that a DRK doesn't need 330+ GSword skill to do a 2k dmg Ground Strike, a BLM doesn't need 330+ Elemental skill to hit a 2k Burst 2, so a RDM with 310+ should really be able to at least land a Paralyze on Promathia without Elemental Seal.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Broken Enfeebling Magic...

Point taken.

lolRDMEnfeeblesOnHNMS


/sigh

"GTFO of mid range and go back to Haste/Refresh, gimp"

/sigh