Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

[Taskmage]

I'm at work atm so forgive the absence of hard numbers. I'd feel bad about taking the time out for research atm.

I started using Absorb-VIT in dynamis after becoming frustrated with other rdms landing enfeebles faster than me or having higher tier versions and reducing my role to a dull cycles+backup sleep that's rarely ever needed position. I figured defensive-type debuffs were probably a waste anyway, and I'm paranoid about throwing Dia in dynamis after a bad misscall while I was still learning. Anyway, I find that I can land Absorb-VIT probably better than 60% of the time with a Pluto's Staff and no dark magic skill equipment. It gives me around +15 VIT when it first lands, so I figure discounting WSes that use STR as a secondary modifier, my casting this spell is pretty equivalent to giving all the melee in my alliance a Herculean Etude, isn't it?

Another anecdote: I went to help a friend camp Charybdis last night. I didn't know how much help I was going to get and I was afraid I might have to attempt to solo her. Cocoon and Utsusemi are kinda lackluster on Charby imo, since neither one can reliably stop her from breaking through your Stoneskin in a single round and interrupting a poorly timed spell, so I decided to bring /drk as an experiment for Stun as a panic button to help keep her out of melee range altogether. Turns out I do get reinforcements so I don't have to solo, but they're all paladins. So now the pressure is on me to mitigate as much damage as possible for a pld to tank Charby. As I alluded to earlier I don't have Slow II or Para II, so making the best of what I had I used Absorb-MND before reapplying Slow and Para each time, making a 30 point swing in the MND difference between me and Charby. It wasn't Elegy, and it wasn't Slow II, but I think I managed to hit the cap on attack speed reduction with Slow I on those casts.

So we know /drk is valuable for CSS in HNM situations, for attack bonus and Vorpal in melee, and for Drain and Aspir whenever they're applicable, but doesn't the judicious use of absorb spells also make it quite useful for our traditional role as debuffers?

[Cotners]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

With a RDM's lack of dark skill, it seems absorb spells would get resisted more often than not.

[Taskmage]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

Not really. Charby is a level 80ish NM and my Absorbs landed better than 60% of the time. Nightmare Hippogryphs are about the same, though I have the benefit of Anrin Obi there. Nightmare Sabotenders, which I believe are weak against dark element, give me probably more like an 80% hit rate. Xarc Demons and Ahriman, which are naturally resistant to dark element and magic in general, as well as dynamis NMs laugh it off as expected. So it really depends on the calibur of your target. And as I said, I do have Pluto's Staff but no other equipment to enhance my dark magic skill or spell accuracy, so it could get better.

[Callisto]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

With a RDM's lack of dark skill, it seems absorb spells would get resisted more often than not.

Not at all. Granted it caps at 200 for RDM, but A) there's tons of gear out there for it and B) dark magic seems to land easier that other types, imo.

I spend most of my time as /DRK, and I use the hell out of the spells from the sub. I have 1 merit for Dark Magic bringing my cap to 202, a Dark Torque(which generally runs pretty cheap)and Abyssal Earring macrod into my dark spells, and I swap in Crimson Finger Gauntlets and Chasuble(1st in line for Nashira body when my limbus ls gets to Ultima ) before I use them if it's a hard mob. This brings my skill to 224, +15 magic accuracy counting Chasuble and Dark staff. Especially on fodder mobs like normal Dynamis Beastmen or XP mobs, I rarely get resisted when using Absorb spells. I just wish I could use Absorb-INT; ;.

The Absorb-MND > debuff trick is great, I did the same thing as TM on Charybdis, and then put on Slow 2 and Para 2. The NIN who tanked it said he's never had an easier time on it, and the same response came from the NIN who tanked Bune for me a couple of times. Abs-VIT is great while solo, for using right before a Souleater Vorpal, it both raises your WS damage, and gives you a bit of a defensive boost for the few seconds that Stoneskin is down after you WS. I also use Abs-AGI for THF or NIN mobs to help bring their evasion down a bit, it's not as large of an effect as Gravity but when stacked they do nicely.

[Mhurron]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

Yes but do they land fully unresisted? They may land, but did do much? It would be nice, but I'm having a hard time believing that the equivalent of a 60BLM or 60DRK could land a spell fully unresisted on a lvl80 NM.

[Callisto]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

Yes but do they land fully unresisted? They may land, but did do much? It would be nice, but I'm having a hard time believing that the equivalent of a 60BLM or 60DRK could land a spell fully unresisted on a lvl80 NM.

There are occassional partial resists, but the least that I recall pulling on times that I've been testing it is 12 points, which is still a 24 point swing.

[Taskmage]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

I think that if an absorb spell lands, it lands for full points. There doesn't seem to be such a thing as a partial resist. Career drks correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the magnitude of the effect varies based on skill, level or resistances.

-- edit --

From the wiki Absorb-DEX page:

Drains 12 points of Dexterity from the target and gives them, temporarily, to the Dark Knight.

It seems that the spell gives 12, period, with a diminishing effect over time. So my initial estimate of 15 was a little off, but still a 24 point swing is very significant.

[Callisto]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

Ah ha, thanks for checking on that TM. I remembered seeing 12, but I don't go into the menu to check the specific amount that I've gotten often, I generally just cast it and move on to the next spell.

[Callisto]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

I started using Absorb-VIT in dynamis after becoming frustrated with other rdms landing enfeebles faster than me or having higher tier versions and reducing my role to a dull cycles+backup sleep that's rarely ever needed position. I figured defensive-type debuffs were probably a waste anyway, and I'm paranoid about throwing Dia in dynamis after a bad misscall while I was still learning.

Haha, I reread that part and got a chuckle. I can't relate to the other RDMs landing debuffs first b/c I'm the fastest in my LS , but the DoT in Dynamis thing I definitely can.

I, for some retarded reason, used to have my Poison1/2 macros in the row above my Sleep1/2 macros, in the same spot. After an experience with me misfiring Poison 2 instead of Sleep 2 on a Dynamis Avatar, then running around in circles with it like "OMGOMG I CAN'T SLEEP IT KILL THE SMN KILL THE SMN KILL THE SMN!!", I saw to changing the placement of those particular macros. Luckily no Astral Flow was used. Nothing like hands-on learning!

[Taskmage]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

lol It was a nin for me. Luckily no Mijin was involved.

[Malacite]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

Now if SE would only change absorbs so the effect doesn't diminish over time, but rather simply wears off ; ;

[Aeni]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

I think that if an absorb spell lands, it lands for full points. There doesn't seem to be such a thing as a partial resist. Career drks correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the magnitude of the effect varies based on skill, level or resistances.

-- edit --

From the wiki Absorb-DEX page:It seems that the spell gives 12, period, with a diminishing effect over time. So my initial estimate of 15 was a little off, but still a 24 point swing is very significant.

Actually, Absorb spells suffer from resists just like any other spells. Let me break it down for you.

During the duration (resists affect the length of duration) effectiveness wears out (imagine half-life in a radioactive element) Effectiveness also is determined by the resist. I'll try to explain, but this will be difficult to understand, because there's some hidden control variable which is either random or being affected by something else I wasn't aware of...

Let's say you land Abs-MND.

You get 12 points. Your bonus decays over time. Say, it lasted 10 seconds off a low IT mob.

10 - 9 - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 - 0
12 - - - - - 9 - - - - 6 - - - - 3 - - - - 0

The intervals between the decay are random. It is not a fixed value, contrary to popular belief. Don't believe? Monitor carefully the next time you use it.

The duration and effect on the monster itself, however, is not equivalent to your own bonus. They are on separate timers. I can have a bonus lasting 10 seconds, but the mob's debuff only lasts 3 seconds. This has happened before.

Thus, I believe the resist is determined by the length it lasts on the monster. 100% and unresisted means that the monsters debuff wears only 1 second before your own bonus wears off. From there, the duration length shortens, again, not sure how that rate is calculated. Further, the decay itself occurs in a non-fixed value with in. You could suddenly lose your bonus going from a full value down to just 3 points in 2 seconds and have a bit of that bonus last for the next 8 seconds before losing it entirely.

I also find it hard to believe that with DRK subbed, any job would be able to get much use out of it. But I remembered that SE labelled RDMs as a skilled magic user able to use magic from all schools, just not having mastery in every single magic skill. Any other job class combination, however, wouldn't work.

[Icemage]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

I also find it hard to believe that with DRK subbed, any job would be able to get much use out of it. But I remembered that SE labelled RDMs as a skilled magic user able to use magic from all schools, just not having mastery in every single magic skill. Any other job class combination, however, wouldn't work.

BLMs could sub DRK if they wanted to, as they also have some Dark Magic skill (B rank or so? Somewhere thereabouts.). Both mage types can supplement the relative lack of Dark Magic skill with a substantial amount of gear, as well as make use of Elemental Staves (which greatly even the odds).

What you say is effectively true though; RDM/DRK is the only case where you'd have a practical use for Absorb spells with a Dark Knight subjob. I can't think of any situation offhand where a Black Mage would want to use a Dark Knight subjob except maybe when farming with a Scythe for some EX Scythe WS (lol).


Icemage

[Karinya]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

Yes but do they land fully unresisted? They may land, but did do much? It would be nice, but I'm having a hard time believing that the equivalent of a 60BLM or 60DRK could land a spell fully unresisted on a lvl80 NM.

It's not equivalent. Even if the base skill is the same as a BLM60, the total skill isn't - dark torque is cheap, crimson finger gauntlets are not that hard to get. (Although blm have some +dark magic from their AF, I think 10?.) Anrin obi works in dynamis too, another thing the blm60 doesn't have. Any macc gear you have (finally, a use for wise cap!). And you probably have way more int than a blm60 even without a heavy int gear swap.

Most importantly, level itself figures heavily in resist formulas. Even if you had the same skill and int as a blm60 you'd land far more spells simply because of your level.

I'm not saying a rdm75 will land dark magic spells as easily as a blm75, but they might actually land them as easily as a drk75 since they have so much more int and macc gear (even if the drk is trying to collect dark magic, macc and int and swap it in for casts - which many don't because of an I HAS A WEAPN, I R MELEE, DURR mentality - there isn't that much available for them).

[Richie]

Re: Usefulness of absorb spells from drk sub?

With 215 dark skill, 75+41 int, +5 magic ACC and Dark Staff(NQ) I was unable to land an absorb-MND on Proto-Omega to save my life. I don't have crimson finger gauntlets and I forgot my wise cap ;;. The HQ dark staff is next on my list of staffs so we will see what my luck is in the future.