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On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

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  • On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

    Backstory: When PLD got buffed last year with Auto Refresh and Shield Mastery, I thought "Hey, cool, this could be useful for my RDM, I should level PLD for a subjob!" I got it to level 14, then took a long break from the game. Upon returning, in merit parties on my RDM, I occasionally found myself partying with a WHM, in burn parties. Since mobs don't generally last long enough for enfeebles other than Dia to be worth it, I found myself bored and in need of something to do in the party besides Refresh and Dia. So, I started pulling. And in my first party pulling, managed to bring in a chain 14, the highest EXP chain I had seen, ever, at the time. Better chains came later in a THFburn in Mire, but that's another story.

    Anyways. I leveled PLD to 37, and convinced a party to let me try RDM/PLD to pull. The setup was RDM, WHM, PLD, RNG, MNK, SAM. The RNG was glad to let me pull, since he wears Dusk pants.

    At this point, you may be asking, why sub PLD to pull instead of BLM, NIN, or even DRK?
    1) NIN sub really doesn't help my casting, and Stoneskin suffices most of the time, I've found
    2) Auto Refresh > Conserve MP unless I'm spamming spells, which I'm not
    3) In a busy camp, Flash with its 0.5 second base casting time, modified by Fast Cast, is pretty damn fast. It's much faster than anything else I can get my hands on, except Stun, which it ties with
    4) DRK sub gives nothing to continue my MP, except Aspir, which BLM provides alongside Conserve MP
    Additionally, the Paladin JAs have the potential to be useful. Stoneskin + Sentinel + Cover could save a life, while DRK JAs do nothing for a RDM who is not in melee.

    But LoneGamer, RDM don't have Divine skill, so Flash will never stick! Wrong! I started this party with Divine skill 51. Every Flash stuck, and I gained 7 levels of skill in the process.

    What about your aggro? With Enmity -11 from Errant body, legs, feet and Penitent's Rope, the PLD was able to Provoke off me, even after Sleep.

    What about buff cycles? I was able to keep up three Refreshes and Phalanx II without difficulty, though there was the odd time a buff wore off mid-pull so someone was without for a few seconds.

    Now, this party was in Nyzul Isle. On Colibri. So, I was less effective than I could have been, because the Colibri liked to Sleep me back. The odd time, however, Resist Sleep fired. Other times, the WHM had to Cure me awake. Being Flashed really didn't affect me at all.

    Near the end of the party, I asked how people felt I was doing, and I was told I'm an "Impossible to gauge" puller. I'm not sure how to interpret this. Did I do awesome as a puller, period? Or did I merely break the RDM mold and show that we can competently do another task?

    Now, of course this is entirely situational. A main healer is needed, and enemies do need to go down fast enough that enfeebles aren't worthwhile. However, the party did kill the occasional Wivre, since there was another party in that section of Nyzul. I was able to maintain enfeebles on that fine.

    What are your thoughts?

    RDM 75/WHM 38/BLM 37/DRK 37/NIN 37/PLD 37 -- Cooking 96.7+1
    Image by Askannyi
    LoneGamer.net

  • #2
    Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

    I love RDM/PLD for the Nyzul camp. It works for Mamool Staging point too, unless you're fighting Skoffins >.>;

    I pull alot for merit parties, i'd say maybe 50% of the time (seeing as BRD's are so hard to find ; and /PLD is one of the best subs for pulling. Auto-Refresh, Flash and some defensive JA's just in case; /PLD is a pretty nice sub for RDM.

    I also do alot of soloing as RDM/PLD, whether it be helping ls members out or having fun lol. I find /PLD is alot less maintanence than going /NIN, having to cast Utsu alot.

    Overall, /PLD ftw :D
    sigpic

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    • #3
      Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

      Originally posted by LoneGamer View Post
      3) In a busy camp, Flash with its 0.5 second base casting time, modified by Fast Cast, is pretty damn fast. It's much faster than anything else I can get my hands on, except Stun, which it ties with
      You can always pull with Provoke or Charm if speed is what worries you; can even use those while on the run!

      Originally posted by LoneGamer View Post
      4) [...] Additionally, the Paladin JAs have the potential to be useful. Stoneskin + Sentinel + Cover could save a life, while DRK JAs do nothing for a RDM who is not in melee.
      I dunno... I think a Divine Seal + Cure IV will be faster than applying Stoneskin + Sentinel + Cover. For /DRK, Stun is good for giving the tank a breather if he has trouble dropping a Cure IV on himself or casting Utusemi: Ichi. I would agree that /PLD is better than /DRK for exp in general, though.

      Originally posted by LoneGamer View Post
      But LoneGamer, RDM don't have Divine skill, so Flash will never stick! Wrong! I started this party with Divine skill 51. Every Flash stuck, and I gained 7 levels of skill in the process.
      RDM has 'E' rating in Divine Magic, which caps at 200 without merits as RDM75.

      Originally posted by LoneGamer View Post
      Now, this party was in Nyzul Isle. On Colibri. So, I was less effective than I could have been, because the Colibri liked to Sleep me back. The odd time, however, Resist Sleep fired. Other times, the WHM had to Cure me awake. Being Flashed really didn't affect me at all.
      I've wondered for a while now if it's possible to cast big nukes or enfeebling magic spells with longer cast time, then stun those Colibris before their mimicked spell can complete casting on you or the tank. Hmm....
      Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
      yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
      Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
      leaving no trace in the water.

      - Mugaku

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      • #4
        Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

        Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post


        I've wondered for a while now if it's possible to cast big nukes or enfeebling magic spells with longer cast time, then stun those Colibris before their mimicked spell can complete casting on you or the tank. Hmm....
        Me too - I have seen myself instances where a spell was cast (Abs-STR) and then stunned after, and it only reflected the STun.

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        • #5
          Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

          Originally posted by hongman View Post
          Me too - I have seen myself instances where a spell was cast (Abs-STR) and then stunned after, and it only reflected the STun.
          So they can be stunned while casting? That's good to hear.

          BTW, I consider Colibri a "mimic" (not box) of sorts; it copies spells, not reflect them. Wiki even says they can be silenced. You don't need a voice to "cast" if you're just reflecting, right?
          Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
          yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
          Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
          leaving no trace in the water.

          - Mugaku

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          • #6
            Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

            Yea, mimic. I always say reflect, i dont know why -.-;

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            • #7
              Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

              Flash is a decent pulling spell. It's a bit heavy on MP cost for what you're doing with it, but you do get some Auto-Refresh to back it up, so it's not all doom and gloom.

              Auto-Refresh ends up being roughly equal to Conserve MP. Auto-Refresh provides a bit more MP to work with by a sliver on average, but /BLM provides more Convert MP to work with for all races except Tarutaru, so it pretty much evens out.

              As far as traditional pulling goes, RDM/NIN is superior to RDM/PLD. Sorry, but it's true. Utsusemi absorbs all kinds of ugly things that can get thrown at you while pulling and costs 0 MP. That MP you're spending on Flash and Stoneskin negate your benefits of Auto-Refresh and a bit of extra MP from /PLD.

              Sentinel sucks except as an enmity tool (and if you're using it while pulling, that means you're expecting to get hit, which is bad).

              Cover is OK, but RDMs are usually a bit too busy casting to just sit there and reposition. Besides, your go-to move for saving someone from getting wasted is Cure IV.

              There's nothing specifically wrong with RDM/PLD... just nothing particularly awesome about it.


              Icemage

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              • #8
                Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

                Agreed. It's been a little over a year since I had my first experience with RDM/PLD in exp, and I'm still of the opinion that it's useful but highly situational.

                And even back then, Icemage said that it's great for sky. Flashing a weapon and having it miss or only hit 1-2 shadows on Whirl of Rage is highly beneficial, and might go further than having to spam Curagas. In addition, it helps because in Weapon Parties, the dynamics are different: a missed WS kan hurt.

                But for ToAU, I can't say that I'd go /PLD too often. Subbing BLM or WHM is just way more beneficial to me.
                The Tao of Ren
                FFXIV LowRes Benchmark - 5011

                If we don't like something, collectively, if our hatred for it throbs like an abscess beneath every thread, does that mean that they're doing something right?
                Originally posted by Kaeko
                As hard as it may be, don't take this game or your characters too seriously. I promise you - the guys that really own your account don't.

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                • #9
                  Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

                  Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                  You can always pull with Provoke or Charm if speed is what worries you; can even use those while on the run!
                  WAR and BST subs give you nothing for casting though.

                  Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                  I dunno... I think a Divine Seal + Cure IV will be faster than applying Stoneskin + Sentinel + Cover.
                  Only if I didn't already have Stoneskin up from the pull. And, I was just talking about JAs. It's another option.

                  Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                  For /DRK, Stun is good for giving the tank a breather if he has trouble dropping a Cure IV on himself or casting Utusemi: Ichi. I would agree that /PLD is better than /DRK for exp in general, though.
                  Stun is useful, period, but I'm talking about pulling.

                  Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                  RDM has 'E' rating in Divine Magic, which caps at 200 without merits as RDM75.
                  Sleepiness makes me typo. I meant to say, we don't use our divine skill for the most part.

                  Originally posted by Icemage View Post
                  As far as traditional pulling goes, RDM/NIN is superior to RDM/PLD. Sorry, but it's true. Utsusemi absorbs all kinds of ugly things that can get thrown at you while pulling and costs 0 MP. That MP you're spending on Flash and Stoneskin negate your benefits of Auto-Refresh and a bit of extra MP from /PLD.
                  When subbing BLM or WHM, I still keep Stoneskin up. I disagree with /NIN as a pulling sub in merit, because, like I said, it does nothing to prolong your MP directly.

                  Originally posted by Icemage View Post
                  Sentinel sucks except as an enmity tool (and if you're using it while pulling, that means you're expecting to get hit, which is bad).
                  When I was leveling PLD, Sentinel was like Mini-Invincible, in terms of damage reduction. Most things hit for 10-20 or less, even berserk Dhalmels. Is it that gimped as a sub?

                  RDM 75/WHM 38/BLM 37/DRK 37/NIN 37/PLD 37 -- Cooking 96.7+1
                  Image by Askannyi
                  LoneGamer.net

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                  • #10
                    Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

                    No Sentinel, for the most part, is still awesome as /PLD. It's a shame it doesn't last longer. ;;

                    Does anyone know if meriting Sentinel effects sub? Because I'm definitely on the road to taking PLD to 75.
                    The Tao of Ren
                    FFXIV LowRes Benchmark - 5011

                    If we don't like something, collectively, if our hatred for it throbs like an abscess beneath every thread, does that mean that they're doing something right?
                    Originally posted by Kaeko
                    As hard as it may be, don't take this game or your characters too seriously. I promise you - the guys that really own your account don't.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

                      Job specific merits only apply to the job if you are currently on it as main (75).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

                        I usually go RDM/DRK to pull vs Colibri because I like to melee as well once I have a mob on deck, but /PLD does sound fun, I'm currently working on my PLD sub(33 now) so that I can try it out. It still gives Vorpal Blade, and that makes it cool in my book!
                        Callysto of RamuhCaithsith - 75 RDM / BRD / COR / PLD / WAR / SCH / DRK

                        Formerly Callisto of Ramuh. | Retired 5.28.10

                        Callisto Broadwurst of Palamecia

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                        • #13
                          Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

                          While I suppose it's situationally useful, I still don't find /PLD very useful for EXP play by the time /PLD becomes useful. The lack of an AoE heal hurts in parties where usually everyone is taking hits.

                          I have been a big fan of /BLU at meripo recently, mainly because I don't get the luxury of a WHM and Healing Breeze is the best thing ever. The last party I had against colibri it was yet another one of those 4x melee + RDM + psychoBRD parties. My MP wouldn't have stood a chance without Healing Breeze.

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                          • #14
                            Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

                            I dunno... I think a Divine Seal + Cure IV will be faster than applying Stoneskin + Sentinel + Cover.
                            This is off topic, so I apologize, I didn't think this merited a thread of it's own.

                            I'm of the opinion that use of DS on ourselves as RDMs is genuinely ineffective compared to use on Parties.

                            While I know of it's use for the fastest return to capped HP on Convert, It should be noted that our HP is generally not in use actively in parties, which lets regen and autoregen to use its effect. Then the DS can be applied to an AoE or Emergency cure for a most needed effect. An additional plus to the former is that we can use DS Curegas to also restore our own HP.

                            Another issue about this comes down to Merits. A merited Convert timer is 8:20 at max. Pushing 1:40 off the timer of DS.

                            I donno, it's just a personal preference thing I'd like to share. Every time when I'm leveling on BLU when I see a RDM DS/CureIV himself I always tend to ask myself if it could have been applied better.

                            Art done by Fred Perry.

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                            • #15
                              Re: On RDM/PLD in parties at 74+

                              /lurks
                              Originally posted by Armando
                              No one at Square Enix has heard of Occam's Razor.
                              Originally posted by Armando
                              Nintendo always seems to have a legion of haters at the wings ready to jump in and prop up straw men about hardware and gimmicks and casuals.
                              Originally posted by Taskmage
                              GOD IS MIFFED AT AMERICA

                              REPENT SINNERS OR AT LEAST GIVE A NONCOMMITTAL SHRUG

                              GOD IS AMBIVALENT ABOUT FURRIES

                              THE END IS COMING ONE OF THESE DAYS WHEN GOD GETS AROUND TO IT
                              Originally posted by Taskmage
                              However much I am actually smart, I got that way by confronting how stupid I am.
                              Matthew 16:15

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