Weapon Skills

[Srxjo]

Which is better for RDMs Savage Blade or Evisceration? if it makes any diffence i have a Joyeuse
would i be better off going Sword/Dagger or Dagger/Sword? i've seen bigger numbers with Evisceration then Savage Blade on EP Lesser Cobri's
thanks in advance
-Srxjo

[Aeolus]

Re: Weapon Skills

I think with a sword/sword your gonna do more DoT, especially if one of them is a Joy toy. Ive never seen Evisceration do alot of dmg without sneak atk but then I havnt watched alot of Rdm soloing but I would think Savage Blade combined with the larger DoT would do more dmg in the long run. I could be wrong

[Srxjo]

Re: Weapon Skills

Swift Blade is a PLD only Weapon Skill

[Aeolus]

Re: Weapon Skills

Sorry, I ment savage blade. I was reading the wiki for swift at the time :/

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Weapon Skills

Evisceration is a 5 hit WS, with 30% DEX modifier, and TP affecting the chance of criticals during the WS.

Savage Blade is a 2 hit WS, with 30% STR + 50% MND modifiers, and TP affecting damage. At 200 TP, you'll do 1.75 times more damage than you would at 100 TP. At 300 TP, you'll do 3.5 times more damage than you would at 100 TP. Ignoring the STR/MND modifiers, Savage Blade is like 2 attacks at 100 TP, 2 x 1.75 = 3.5 attacks at 200 TP, and 2 x 3.5 = 7 attacks at 300 TP as far as damage (that is, you'll get damage that looks like 7 attacks, but the TP return will still look like 2 attacks).

If you plan to spam your WS every time you hit 100 TP, Evisceration is better. If you want to save up to 300 TP and use your WS, then Savage Blade is better.

[Taskmage]

Re: Weapon Skills

I haven't used Evisceration much, so I don't really know how much damage it normally does. My 300% Savage Blade usually does a little over 500 damage.

Personally, now that I have Joyeuse I never use daggers anymore. I figure that if I'm not dual wielding, the 50% faster tp gain from the Joyeuse will make up for its relatively weaker weaponskills. If I am dual wielding it's probably only because the mob I'm fighting hits so hard that I can't tank it without shadows, and if that's true then it probably has defense high enough to make Spirits Within the only reliable WS for pushing through damage, so Martial Anelace/Joyeuse is the way to go.

I don't really have numbers for dagger/Joy vs <T mobs. If someone with more experience on the subject doesn't post before then, I'll play around with it tonight and try to get some solid conclusions. What dagger were you thinking to use mainhand? Martial?

[Srxjo]

Re: Weapon Skills

TP Bonus
From FFXIclopedia
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TP Bonus (found on weapons such as the Martial Knife, Martial Scythe, Martial Anelace, etc. along with the Shamo and Hagun) allows a weaponskill to use 100% additional TP from what you have when the skill is actually used. (Exception: Summoner's level 75 Blood Pacts earned with Merit Points give a TP Bonus effect of 20% (instead of 100) to the attack for each level learned beyond the first.)

For example, using Tachi: Yukikaze at 100% TP with a Hagun (Martial Great Katana) would have the same effect as though you used it at 200% TP with a non-martial weapon.

TP Bonus weapons are primarily used to increase damage on heavily TP-dependent damaging weaponskills (e.g. Shark Bite, the final three Tachi (Great Katana) skills, Steel Cyclone, Savage Blade, Spiral Hell, and most of the other high-level weaponskills). It can be used on weaponskills with other modifiers (Asuran Fists for example has a TP modifier of more accuracy, Viper Bite has a TP modifier of more poison) but the extra damage from a damage TP modifier is the common use.

It does not allow the user to gain TP any faster, that's what the "Store TP" Job Trait and effect on certain items does.

TP bonus only works if the weapon is equipped in the main hand; a TP bonus weapon in the off hand has no effect, and a TP bonus ranged weapon will not affect a melee weapon and vice-versa.

after reading this, then i read this

Evisceration
From FFXIclopedia
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Dagger weapon skill

Skill level: 230
In order to obtain Evisceration, the quest Cloak and Dagger must be completed.
Delivers a fivefold attack. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
[edit]Properties
Element: Gravitation / Transfixion
Modifiers: DEX:30%
Damage Multipliers by TP:
100%TP 200%TP 300%TP
1.00 1.00 1.00

the Martial Dagger would help with the damage by helping with the TP increases chance of Crit so if the Dagger / Joy is the way to go i would get the Martial

EDIT: Information from Wiki

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Weapon Skills

You could also do Martial Analace / Joyeuse and do Savage Blade at 200 TP. The TP bonus of Martial Analace would effectively double Savage Blade damage (since going from 200 TP to 300 TP doubles the damage modifier from TP).

[Richie]

Re: Weapon Skills

I'm pretty sure Joytoy alone will get you faster TP than dual wielding. Why not just go Joy/shield (preferably genbu's).

The only time I can see dual wield being better is if you're not tanking and doing all your dmg with enspells.

[Srxjo]

Re: Weapon Skills

i still haven't got access to Sky yet =/ so genbu's shield is out the question guess after i get DRK to 37 i got to work on sky on ZM4 atm just no one will help >.<

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Weapon Skills

Never parsed this, but dagger/sword sounds like the better combination.

High rate of weapon swings to make better use of en- spells, Energy Drain when you need a nice chunk of MP, and Evisceration when you want damage for your TP instead.

Joyeuse gives piercing damage, and so do all daggers, so they should do well on Colibris. (Well, Joyeuse is good on anything you don't mind giving TP to, really.)

[Arctic Wolf]

Re: Weapon Skills

From personal experience as Thief, I have;
Dancing Edge
Shark Bite
Evisceration.
Those are the last three Dagger Weaponskills. Evisceration is the worst out of them, and I never use(d) it other than Dark Skillchain.

From personal experience as RDM, having Savage Blade, i'd say, use that, definitely with a Joyeuse. I find the damage on Savage Blade better. Along with that, the sword stats are usually better too.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Weapon Skills

I'm pretty sure Joytoy alone will get you faster TP than dual wielding.

opps.

Hmm. Ignoring round offs effects, and plugging everything into a spreadsheet, I came up with:

Joyeuse: 224 delay, 50% double attack rate.

Avg. Delay (Joyeuse) = (224 * 50%) + ((224/2) * 50%) = 168
Swing/Minute (Joyeuse) = 21.43

Dual Wield II with Joyeuse (168 delay average) + Hornetneedle (150 delay)

Avg Delay (DWII+J+H) = ((168 + 150) / 2) * (1 - 15%) = 158.95
Swing/Minute (DWII+J+H) = 22.65

According to FFXIClopedia, TP/swing = 5.0 + [(Delay - 180) * 1.5] / 180

TP (Joyeuse) = 4.9 TP/swing
TP (DWII+J+H) = 4.8 TP/swing

So,

TP gain (Joyeuse) = 4.9 TP/swing * 21.43 swing/min = 105.0 TP/min
TP gain (DWII+J+H) = 4.8 TP/swing * 22.65 swing/min = 109.2 TP/min

Not a huge difference, but looks like Dual Wield II + Joyeuse + Hornetneedle with 100% accuracy will be faster for TP gain.

(Yes, my numbers are a slightly off because I'm too lazy to look up the exact rounding used; did the whole thing on a spreadsheet, with whatever number of significant digit it uses internally, and didn't type up the entire numbers for this post.)

Edit:

Opps. I think I used the wrong TP formula for Joyeuse; should have used stated delay instead of the calculate average delay.

Joyeuse: 224 delay, 50% double attack rate.

Avg. Delay (Joyeuse) = (224 * 50%) + ((224/2) * 50%) = 168
Swing/Minute (Joyeuse) = 21.43

Dual Wield II with Joyeuse (168 delay average) + Hornetneedle (150 delay)

Stated Delay (DWII+J+H) = ((168 + 150) / 2) * (1 - 15%) = 158.95
Avg. Delay (DWII+J+H) = (magic calculations!) = 132.46
Swing/Minute (DWII+J+H) = 27.18

According to FFXIClopedia,
180 - 450 delay: TP/swing = 5.0 + [(Delay - 180) * 6.5] / 270

Stated Delay(Joyeuse) = 224
TP (Joyeuse) = 6.1 TP/swing

Under 180 delay: TP/swing = 5.0 + [(Delay - 180) * 1.5] / 180

Stated Delay(DWII+J+H) = 158.95
TP (DWII+J+H) = 4.8 TP/swing

So,

TP gain (Joyeuse) = 6.1 TP/swing * 21.43 swing/min = 129.8 TP/min
TP gain (DWII+J+H) = 4.8 TP/swing * 27.18 swing/min = 131.1 TP/min

I stand corrected (yet again); I don't know which wins.

(Yes, my numbers are a slightly off because I'm too lazy to look up the exact rounding used; did the whole thing on a spreadsheet, with whatever number of significant digit it uses internally, and didn't type up the entire numbers for this post.)

Edit 2:
Just not my day; I screwed up the delay for Dual Wielding. Joyeuse is a pain.

50% of the time: 2 swing in 317.9 delay = 158.95 swing/delay
50% of the time: 3 swing in 317.9 delay = 105.97 swing/delay
So, Avg. Delay (DWI+J+H) = (158.95 + 105.97)/2 = 132.46

[Taskmage]

Re: Weapon Skills

Yeah, that's why imo the only thing that makes sense to dual wield with Joyeuse is a Martial Anelace. Anything else just waters down Joy's tp gain potential. Unless possibly you're fighting elementals, then use a Hornetneedle for a few more Enspell fires and Energy Drain.

It sounds like the consensus is Savage Blade wins, but I've been wanting to borrow a friend's Blau and try it out anyway. I'm pretty busy lately though so I won't be able to get to it before Thursday.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Weapon Skills

Um... I screwed up the calculations twice. >_>; At least.

So, the current conclusion is that TP gain rate is about the same. (I reserve the right to revise my stance yet again.)