RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

[BurningPanther]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

Hm. Hurricane Wyverns? I'm down to try it.

Any other mobs that might be a good test of skill? My parser works fine and dandy.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

Just downloaded DvsParse 1.5.0

Back to our regularly scheduled program.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

If you can figure out a method to solo Chandallier [THF AF3 NM mob], then I will call you a God.

[Lmnop]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

If you kill a god, you become one, right? I know it's a shabby excuse for a god, but RDM still have Genbu.

[Mikamaru]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

and the dragon god w/e his name is

[WishMaster3K]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

Haven't seen this thread in a while. I guess Pledging kinda puts a damper on Experimentation >_>

Yeah, Seiryu just got added to the "Apparently Weak and Evidently Soloable Over Much Experimentation by Red Mages" (or, A.W.E.S.O.M.E. RDMs) list.

The THF AF3 Mob, hmm? Yeah it's possible. I know that for a fact. Who knows if it can be done in a timely manner. My friend soloed on NIN/DRK, stunning the Self-Destructs and Blink Tanking while proceeding to Over Kill it using the outrageous job abilities of /DRK (for the record, I'd hate to see what a properly equipped DRK can do going at full power.. DRKs are more devastating than WARs, but DRK are always forced to hold back...).

It attacks fast, so RDM/NIN might not be able to do it. The only solution I can think of as being the most feasible is RDM/BLU, because we can still Stun, and we get a plethora of additional abilities to use. Possibly a kiting situation utilizing the added protection of Cocoon might help.

It's something to consider for the summer..

[Callisto]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

I just noticed the last couple posts on this thread, I'm actually going to attempt to solo Chandellier soon for a friend as RDM/DRK, I'll post how it goes.

I'd hate to see what a properly equipped DRK can do going at full power.. DRKs are more devastating than WARs, but DRK are always forced to hold back...).

I've been bothering my DRK buddy to level SAM sub for awhile b/c I have a feeling that DRK/SAM would be disgusting, but I don't really have the money to level DRK at the moment. We do alot of duo, and RDM/NIN + DRK/THF is the absolute shit. He TA/WS' onto me for hate when he has TP, and I don't have much problem tanking like that. We run Alkys/Pallys like this about once a week, it's alot of fun, and better than duoing with other DDs that get hit too much; ;

[WishMaster3K]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

I was thinking about this thread earlier today, actually. I haven't been bothered to merit in a WHILE, to be honest, too busy with PLD /innocent



Maybe I'll dabble in this again sometime this summer, Thanks Callisto, for the bump!

[Aksannyi]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

I just noticed the last couple posts on this thread, I'm actually going to attempt to solo Chandellier soon for a friend as RDM/DRK, I'll post how it goes.



I've been bothering my DRK buddy to level SAM sub for awhile b/c I have a feeling that DRK/SAM would be disgusting, but I don't really have the money to level DRK at the moment. We do alot of duo, and RDM/NIN + DRK/THF is the absolute shit. He TA/WS' onto me for hate when he has TP, and I don't have much problem tanking like that. We run Alkys/Pallys like this about once a week, it's alot of fun, and better than duoing with other DDs that get hit too much; ;

My husband goes DRK/SAM. He loves it even more than DRK/THF. With Meditate and Abs-TP he's spamming WS a zillion times per fight if the tanks let him.

[Callisto]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

Got another toy for my RDM melee goodness yesterday, a Thunder Gorget for Vorpal/Savage. I haven't had time to play with it to much since I immediately had to switch to /BLM for Limbus after I got it, but fighting TW placeholders for Sozu Sarberry later, I was averaging 600-800~ per Vorpal, it doesn't seem to have tacked on a ton of damage, but it does seem a bit more consistent so far. Hopefully I get a chance to test it on higher mobs later this week.

[Callisto]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

So the Thunder Gorget is pretty meh. It hasn't done a whole lot for Vorpal, but I there is a noticeable improvement to Savage at 100%, generally tacks on an extra 100 dmg or so.

One thing I did do that made a noticeable improvement was ditch my ogre mask in favor of ogre gloves. The 6 STR puts me at 72+20 when I'm /DRK and using my melee WS set, my vorpals are doing much better now, but still can't break 1k on any kind of regular basis; ; The next time I pull a set of Alkys in UDT I think I'm going to try and wear them for a bit on RDM for my WS swaps and see how much of a difference they make. I'm trying to figure out a good STR/Atk ratio to see how they affect my WS damage. Now that my casting sets are pretty much complete minus a few rare/ex pieces, I'm focusing on my DD set.

Currently it sits at:

Main: ESword
Sub: Tariqah +1
Head: Warlock's Chapeau
Neck: Spectacles(Thunder Gorget swaps in for Vorpal/Savage)
Body: Assault Jerkin
Hands: Ogre Gloves
Rings: Ruby x2
Back: Amemet Mantle(HQ got cheap recently, hopefully I can upgrade soon)
Waist: Warwolf Belt

Just wondering, how much have you guys toyed with STR vs Atk? Trying to figure out what ratio would optimize Vorpal damage.

[Taskmage]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

With a rdm melee buff in the near future, it seems like a good time to revive this thread. This is just kind of a thinking out loud kind of post.

I was soloing/duoing Aura Pots in this evening and I'm a little unimpressed with my melee results. Now, I'll go ahead and say that as a test case there were a lot of things wrong with the scenario. For one, I was blink tanking on top of maintaining silence and the other usual buffs and debuffs, so I was gear swapping a LOT and it's likely that my strongest acc pieces weren't even on for half my swings. I also wasn't eating any food and wasn't casting Gravity. So significant hits there.

Anyway, here's my equip:

melee gear

Joyeuse
Justice Sword
Optical Hat
Chivalrous Chain
Fenrir's Earring
Scorpion Harness
Carapace Gauntlets
Fencer's Ring
Amemet Mantle (NQ)
Life Belt
Duelist's Tights
Duelist's Boots

That's +35 accuracy plus another 2 from the relic pant's dex. With that I parsed at an average of 62% melee accuracy on level 75-80 pots, which I assume are blm/war.

I consider that rather dismal. Equipment-wise there's not a whole ton I can see to do to improve. I need to pick up my suppa finally for +5, adding 1-2 snipers would give me another +10, and using Prince's Slops would give me +1-2 over Duelist's. I have no sword merits, so finishing those would give me another +8 acc. Oh right and Gravity — +10. Going by 2 acc = 1% hit rate, that adds up to +34-35 or +17% to my average hit rate. So that should theoretically kick my parse up to ~79% average accuracy, and probably 75% on the VTs. Much more acceptable but still not a number I'm really happy with.

But duh, I forgot sushi. Estimating my accuracy stat as 0.9x my weapon skill plus half my dex rounded down I get 251 base acc. Adding my current equipment gets me to 287, which I believe is the step sushi comes in. +6 dex from from standard sushi brings it up to 290 acc, times 15% is +43 accuracy or a 21% jump in my average to-hit. 83% average. Now we're talking.

Say I add one Sniper, Suppa, use +3 acc pants like Duelist+1, Pahluwan or Vendor's, and finish sword merits. That puts me to ... click click click ... 306 accuracy ... sushi would add +49 so 355, a 68 acc increase over my parsed setup and theoretically a 34% increase in to-hit rate. That puts me at ... well heck, 96% accuracy on average for EM-VT. That'd mean I'd be over the acc cap on EMs and probably low Ts. On VTs I'd still be at 92% ... in theory. That sounds too good to be true. Anybody with a better grasp of melee mechanics see a mistake or misunderstanding I made?

Anyway, if I'm even close to right then 1) sushi is basically mandatory for us to effectively melee anything over EM (hmm, everybody probably already knew that but me, huh?) and 2) working from a strong acc setup with sushi, we can probably afford to start making some sacrifices in acc to shore up our str and attack. Which is good because Joy+Justice was doing a whopping 12-37 damage on those pots, and my enspells were so heavily resisted they only added about 6 damage on average. x_x I hope that among the upcoming adjustments is a buff to enspell accuracy on T-VT targets. Anybody know if our magic accuracy merits affect our enspell damage? If so I'm never switching of Enblizzard again. Day and weather be damned.

[Hyrist]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

Some quick answers for you.

1. Enspells do work on elemental accuracy bonuses, Enblizzard is god with full ice accuracy bonuses.

2. Pots suck for proper parses on mobs, their absolutely terrible for most classes except monks anyways.

3. The entire approach about RDM melee since it's inception has been incorrect, remember that RDM melee is susposed to be used as a utility, so stretching to str/atk gear should be the apsolute LAST peice of equipment you should have in your regimine.


Those things said, I have a bone for you to chew on. /dnc. Using RDM melee as a utility causes this subjob to be very effective, especially with joyeuse or justice sword.

While Sambas are overwritten by enspells, it's AoE effect remains, giving the entire party the effect of drain when needed, that said there's little need for enspells unless you cant use/don't need the drain/aspir effects.

The effects of it subbed is not weakened currently, making it quite effective all around. The TP given is best used with the abilities given by /dnc: Evasion/defence down moves, Emergency provoke/support tanking (hello use for our defence spells!) MP-free cures (YUMMY!)

Pair this with Native subbable Subtle Blow and Accuracy Bonus (yey for free scorp harness) makes this quite an impressive subjob all around.

Many things to consider.

[Patchinko]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

There's going to be a RDM melee buff? I saw that there was a statement saying they wanted to give RDM a position on front line, but it never occured to me that it would be a melee damage buff because even with capped skill and very good gear, our melee damage is not good enough to bother with against higher level enemies, especially since the gear setup needed would severely hinder the RDM's magical capabilities.

I'm working from memory, but as far as En-spells, they are affected by magic accuracy, but their damage is based on your Enhancing skill plus a weather bonus plus a day bonus. Increasing magic accuracy will reduce the resist rate, and increasing Enhancing skill will maximize damage from them.

I am interested in how they think to bring RDMs to the front line, considering we have a great deal of trouble hitting things with melee.

Edit: Good show, Hyrist! I guess I ought to type faster.

[Taskmage]

Re: RDM Melee (Renarudo Style)

My interest in optimizing my damage output is primarily to make me more efficient at things like farming water and other items of interest that drop from T-VT mobs. In parties of three or more where I'd be doing less than 1/6th of the total damage (arbitrary value) I always let myself fall to the backline. When it matters anyway. I usually melee for fun in Preemptive Strike regardless of the setup.

/dnc utility is a very interesting proposition that I hadn't really considered. Putting that TP to use on something better than 200 damage does sound very appealing and I didn't know they got that accuracy bonus trait.

Thanks for the quick answers.

Patch edit:

There's going to be a RDM melee buff? I saw that there was a statement saying they wanted to give RDM a position on front line, but it never occured to me that it would be a melee damage buff because even with capped skill and very good gear, our melee damage is not good enough to bother with against higher level enemies, especially since the gear setup needed would severely hinder the RDM's magical capabilities.

Since we can already make quite good tanks with nin, I assumed that enhanced frontline capabilities would mean something in regard to our melee ability. That's what a lot of rdms have been asking for for a long time, so it makes sense that they would go in that direction. Of course, they could have just been referring to /dnc.