Becoming a better Red Mage

[Murphie]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

Until I cap out with the best casting gear I can find, I can't justify spending all my gil on the best RDM melee gear. At least, not right now. But that's just me, based on my current progression. Everyone's different.^^

[Icemage]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

Enhancing Sword isn't really that great. The bonus to Enspell damage only applies to hits made with the Enhancing Sword, so if you dual-wield it does not help your off-hand weapon. Joyeuse and Justice Sword both vastly outperform Enhancing Sword.

As an owner of both a Joyeuse and a Justice Sword, I like the Justice Sword more for short fights damage-wise, but carrying Virtue Stones around is a serious pain in the rear end. I also much prefer Joyeuse for anything that is weak to piercing damage, like Coeurls and most flying enemies, and Justice Sword for anything that is strong against piercing, such as skeletons.


Icemage

[BurningPanther]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

Until I cap out with the best casting gear I can find, I can't justify spending all my gil on the best RDM melee gear. At least, not right now. But that's just me, based on my current progression. Everyone's different.^^

True Strike.

A RDMs magical capabilities have to take priority, even when meleeing since our magical skill do so much to enhance our melee powers.

I've managed to cap out all my magic skills(Divine, Dark, Healing, Elemental, Enhancing, and Enfeebling) at 75, so I'm free to work on those physical combat skills that have gone untouched. Hell, I'm not even touching my melee based merits(Sword skill, Crit rate, Parrying), until after I've finished the magical ones(MND, MP, Spell interrupt, Convert, Ice/Wind M.Acc). It's those magical abilities we wield that make our meleeing possible, without which we'd be taken a whole lot less seriously.

[Ravd]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

well let me put it this way for remora
SH-1 mil
SH+1-2.9
vermy-2.9 (i think)
o-keto- 3.4 (i think)
spider torque - 600k
enfeebling torque 1.7-1.9
so .... remora is a very cheap one compaired to most from the last i have heard

[Ravd]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

if i am not mistaken, i am almost positice that the stat bonus from the enhancing sword when matched with an En- spell stays for both weapons ... it does not go away when other sword hits, as long as an En- spell is active u have the bonus. also enhancing sword has the best base damage sword for rdm other than relic. so if u say enhancing sword is crap then ur just dumb. also yes ... rdm should put all of their magic before melee at all my gear is almost all set until 71 ... then 72 then 74 just for minor things such as rings errant and 74 rings ... thats it still another 2 mil + tho so i have my work cut out for me before i get / need melee, it is always good to keep skilling it up when u get a chance tho so u dont get stuck doing it all at once

[BurningPanther]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

No, Enhancing sword is great for it's level range, it's got perfect stats for us(it was built with RDM in mind after all), but by the time a RDM will realistically get one(possibly his 70s), it's kind of outclassed.

The enspell damage enhancement DOES translate to both weapons(when Dual Wielding), but that's not what Icemage was getting at. While the enspell boost is good, it doesn't make up for the increase in weapon delay when pairing the E. Sword with the Joyeuse. The E. Sword's delay kind of gimps the Joyeuse's performance, and ultimately brings down the overall DPS. The double attack feature of Justice sword(with V. Stone)/Joyeuse, when paired with your average en-spell, is much more potent.

[Sabaron]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

The thing about Dagger vs. Sword for RDM is that in many level ranges, the damage from the sword + Enspell is roughly equivalent to Dagger damage + Enspell over the weapon delay (or so have gone the evaluations I've done). Here... for the next few minutes or so, I'll evaluate the (few) daggers and several of the swords in the 65-75 level range for overall DPS with an Enspell.

+25 Enspell Damage

Weapon DPS
Excalibur 33.78
Enhancing Sword 30.45
Mensur Epee 28.57
Rune Blade (Latent) 27.12
Macuahuitl +1 28.17
Wise Wizard's Anelace 27.18
Aramis's Rapier 14.85
Mandau 38.49
Misericorde 28.96
Blau Dolch (Latent) 34.01
Hornetneedle 27.33
Darksteel Baselard +1 24.21

+20 Enspell Damage

Excalibur 31.63
Enhancing Sword 28.36
Mensur Epee 26.34
Rune Blade (Latent) 25
Macuahuitl +1 25.97
Wise Wizard's Anelace 24.97
Aramis's Rapier 24.75
Mandau 35.65
Misericorde 26.23
Blau Dolch (Latent) 31.2
Hornetneedle 24
Darksteel Baselard +1 21.58

+15 Enspell Damage

Excalibur 29.48
Enhancing Sword 26.28
Mensur Epee 24.11
Rune Blade (Latent) 22.88
Macuahuitl +1 23.77
Wise Wizard's Anelace 22.76
Aramis's Rapier 32.81
Mandau 23.5
Misericorde 28.39
Blau Dolch (Latent) 20.67
Hornetneedle 18.95
Darksteel Baselard +1 22.28


Never mind the full table... I just cut it down to the weapon/Enspell(+25) columns. I added a +5 damage to the enspell for Enhancing Sword. I evaluated +15 and +20 damage ratings as well.

First: All swords with Attack+ have had DPS adjusted based on 250ATK vs 250DEF using the Even Match level difference.

Mandau Vs. Excalibur: Mandau wins with 38.49 over 33.78

Hornetneedle vs. Rune Blade: Hornetneedle wins 27.33 to 27.12 and it doesn't consume mana.

DST Baselard vs. WW Anelace: Wise Wizard wins with 27.18 over 24.21

It appears that dagger becomes the weapon of choice when you get a Hornetneedle. So get over to the Temple of Uggalipeh right away!

Also, if you're planning on paying for some massive weapon (or farming it) you'd best choose Blau Dolch (6 million on Asura) instead of Enhancing Sword (4.5 million on Asura) and get some +Accuracy elsewhere in your gear.

Obviously there are other weapons and things to consider. This is just a brief consideration.

The overall sword winner (that's not a relic weapon) is Enhancing Sword and the overall dagger winner is Blau Dolch.

Please note that I did not include Joyeuse as it is difficult to evaluate it's "Occasionally Attacks Twice" effect as I do not know how often that activates.

I marked in bold, those weapons that I found "interesting". Note that Aramis's Rapier (the fastest sword in the game) has very good damage output and is most excellent for skillup. It's a bit pricey though. Hornetneedle (if you're interested) is the fastest Dagger in the game.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to skill up my dagger...

[Icemage]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

Joyeuse activates it's double attack proc 50% of the time.

Justice Sword activates its double attack proc 50% of the time as well, as long as you have Virtue Stones equipped in ammo (every double attack proc consumes 1-2 stones).

Regarding Enhancing Sword, I don't own one, but never bothered because as far as I am aware, yes, the +5 enspell damage for it works ONLY for hits made with the Enhancing Sword.

http://ffxi.killvoid.com/forums.php?...954d363b6f389a

regarding the enhancing sword dual wield; it works like this:

example 1:
Main Enhancing Sword
Offhand X weapon.
+ Enspell.

Results: Acc and Attack latent are activated. Enhancing sword has +5 enspell damage, however, X Weapon does not. it hits for normal enspell damage.

example 2:
Main X weapon
Offhand Enhancing Sword
+ Enspell

Results: Acc and Attack latent are activated. Enhancing sword has +5 enspell damage, however, X Weapon does not. it hits for normal enspell damage.

so, both ways it's exactly the same.

I have not personally verified this to be true, but have seen it posted many times in the past and never contradicted.

In either case, Joyeuse and Justice Sword (with Virtue Stones) both outperform Enhancing Sword.


Icemage

[Ravd]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

yes they do but the stones taht u need to get are a pain to carry and the enhancing sword gets a damn good amount of acc which deffinately helps with skilling up also the + nomal attack is always very nice so IMO if u can afford the enhancing sword and get the Joyeuse then that is ur best bet due to the double attack and the +acc mixed with the En-spell damage. we all know as rdm it is VERY hard to find decent + acc gear other than just in the rings which as rdm ... probably is not going to be enough but very nice find with that damage calculator

[Ravd]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

as far as daggers go i dont tend to use them but i should start skilling them up >.< still only like 80 dagger or so and Blau Dolch and Hornetneedle are probably the best dagger combo (other than relic) u can have as rdm for skill up and solo (im still a sword fan tho)

[Murphie]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

is so neglected. ; ;

[Raydeus]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

is so neglected. ; ;

Can't stop laughing.

[Sabaron]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

I forgot to mention a caveat to all this Enspell business:

Some monsters are resistant to magic which causes Enspell damage to drop considerably (Magic Pots and Golems are examples). In most cases, the greater Physical DPS from Sword with Enspell over Dagger with Enspell will make it the better choice for these mob-types.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

I don't have an Enhancing sword, but I still fail to see how the +5 to Enspell damage is going to outperform the dual double attack from a Joyeuse/Justice sword Dual Wield. And the Virtue Stone is only a pain to carry because it spends extra inventory space(Icemage: it's Ex, how did you have two?).

Until I achieve my J. Sword dreams(and consequently, Al'Taieu access), I'll stick with my Joyeuse/Guespiere combo. The Str +1 and MND +6 is pretty okay, for Savage Blade in particular. The Defense Down effect is nonexistent against anything above DC, however. I've been thinking of picking up a Verdun +1 or Mensur Epee, I like the Parrying bonus on the Verdun, but the hidden damage mod on the Mensur seems spiffy in solo situations.

[Icemage]

Re: Becoming a better Red Mage

I don't own two Justice Swords (obviously, since it's Rare, along with EX). I own a Joyeuse and a Justice Sword. And yes, 50% double attack greatly outweighs the higher damage/attack/accuracy/enspell of Enhancing Sword.


Icemage