A shout out to Taskmage

[Fynlar]

He and I took out Charybdis with a lil backup from a PLD and another lower level RDM. One person does Blizzard, one person does Bind... and alternates appropriately. Who says you need a blink tank to beat it, anyway XD It was a fun new way to fight the thing.
If any of you folks want a Joyeuse but don't know anyone who can tank it, see if there's another RDM you can team up with. If you know how to work together with your Binds and Blizzards, you can fare a lot better against it than you might think

UPDATE: Fought it again with Lago, in similar fashion with different backup, and took it down again; Lago got the Joyeuse this time. Grats dude!

[zagex]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

So it was 2 75 Rdm, a Pld, and another lower levelled Rdm?

[Fynlar]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

Ya. PLD killed the add in the room, RDM contributed some Refreshes and Hastes so that we could conserve our MP for Blizzards and Binds, both of them contributed some healing. Lago (Taskmage) and I did all of the damage.

[Jaxom]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

I'm guessing since you mention just using blizzard that there was no noticeable buildup in resistance to it? Or did you actually switch your nukes around a little?

I had considered trying this actually, but wasn't quite sure how it would turn out. apparently it most likely would have went well. I know a few other 75 rdm that need this sword, so no more waiting for a nin and brd! Thanks for the info!

[Taskmage]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

I didn't notice a dropoff in damage as the fight went on, but I wasn't paying explicit attention to the numbers. I was too busy tracking buffs and timers. She did seem to resist Bind a lot more as the fight went on this last time, but it may have just been bad luck since we didn't have that problem the first time.

But as Fynlar said, we're 2/2 with this strategy now so it's definately a viable way for all those red mages who want Joyeuse to team up and finally get it. I had a problem getting a nin and bard or equivalent group together also, so naturally I was ecstatic that we were able to pull this off. You pretty much just need two rdms who can coordinate with eachother and a third person to handle manta pops, which could be just about any level 75 job.

Something I don't think has been mentioned is that we both went /blu for Cocoon like Avesta did. The first time we were more lax with keeping our buffs up and had a few near-death experiences between us. This last time we were much more vigilant about keeping Cocoon and Phalanx up at all times and I don't think we had a single real close call, even though we probably took a lot more hits due to resisted binds. I don't think /blu is necessary for this strategy to work at all, but if you've got it available and aren't already very experienced at kiting, I would say to bring it anyway as a safety net.

Thanks again Fynlar for the awesome experience and helping me get my sword. Just let me know when Amy gets her pop and I'll come warping. ^^d

[Fynlar]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

I'm guessing since you mention just using blizzard that there was no noticeable buildup in resistance to it? Or did you actually switch your nukes around a little?

The only damage reduction I noticed (that's not to rule out that it could have happened elsewhere without me noticing) was when we Chainspell-zerged it near the end of the 2nd fight, where it was taking a flurry of Blizzard 3s. I am pretty sure that I saw subsequent nukes from the same RDM doing slightly less damage than their previous nuke. Only slightly, and heck, now that I think about it it could have been due to the day, maybe it was Firesday or something making some of the nukes weaker... I forget what day it was, though. Whatever it was, it was only very slight damage fluctuation, not nearly enough to stop Charybdis's timely demise XD

I really don't think most solo/duo RDMs will ever encounter the "increasing nuke resistance on NMs" in any noticeable amount unless they Chainspell nuke, so that's definitely nothing to worry about here (Chainspell isn't even needed to take this guy down, we only did it on the 2nd round to speed things up). In either case, I think the increased resistance applies to any sort of magical damage, not just one specific nuke element, so varying nukes probably wouldn't affect a thing. Blizzard is the way to go here, can't beat having it backed up by +10 skill on your staff in addition to the power/acc bonus.

She did seem to resist Bind a lot more as the fight went on this last time, but it may have just been bad luck since we didn't have that problem the first time.

That's probably the number one thing to keep in mind when fighting it like this; you WILL get some dud Binds so it's important to keep an eye on Charybdis at all times (and try to keep it in your character's line of sight so that you can actually cast on it without getting the "unable to see the <t>" message). You will not be able to see the "The Charybdis is no longer bound" message in your log unless it was YOUR Bind; the other person will not see the wearoff message, and if it was your Bind that was a dud, you will not be able to recast it immediately. Your partner should be ready to cover for you in such a case.

Now if you're ever in a situation where your Bind isn't up, Charybdis is after your partner, and he tries to Bind and gets interrupted... this might be a good time to whip out Gravity. It very well might gain Gravity resistance, but even if you get it down to the point where Gravity only lasts a few seconds or so, this can still be enough to save a life. Don't keep Gravity up 100% of the time, but don't be afraid to use it either... that's my advice.

I don't think /blu is necessary for this strategy to work at all, but if you've got it available and aren't already very experienced at kiting, I would say to bring it anyway as a safety net.

I agree with this. But, you know how much I love Cocoon XD My /BLU is gimped too, only level 21. I've been subbing it for various stuff ever since it reached level 8 for Cocoon, and people love to make fun of me for it. Yes, I know, I'm working on it. -_-

In my experience, if you have Earth Staff, Jelly Ring, Cheviot/Umbra Cape, Phalanx, Cocoon, and a fresh Stoneskin all up... there is a very good chance you will be able to take one volley of attacks from Charybdis without SS even breaking, assuming it's not more than 5-6 hits or so. This can be important, because no damage obviously will mean immunity from interruption. It also means that its TP won't go up during that round, which might prevent it from using a TP attack immediately (it tends to use a TP attack immediately after one of its attack rounds if it's hitting for damage... just like a Kraken Club, it gains TP like a beast)

[Jaxom]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

The more I read the more I want to try this. I even sent a POL message to a fellow 75rdm almost immediately after reading it the first time. As we both need the sword, and would thus have to try this twice, I'm interested in seeing the difference between subbing blm and subbing blu. Before I make these next statements, I must confess that my blu is only 18, and I haven't touched it since about a week (at most) after ToAU came out. That said, while /blu does bring the exceedingly nice cocoon to the table, I would think /blm would give you a reasonable boost to your nukes, a better chance of having fewer (if any) bind resists, and ES for an emergency. Certainly not saying it is the better choice (especially since I haven't tried this yet and you have), just curious as to how it will affect the battle. Should I manage to get the time to try this (as both /blm and /blu) I will post any differences I notice. Once again, thanks for giving me new hope on being able to obtain a little joy!

[Aeni]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

Wouldn't having Phalanx/Stoneskin up and Utusemi:Ichi with Utsu:Ni cooldown to 0 work as well? Since you're not soloing Charybdis like Avesta was doing, I think it would provide better safety net than having a subbed BLU for occassional, yet dicey protection.

[Fynlar]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

As we both need the sword, and would thus have to try this twice, I'm interested in seeing the difference between subbing blm and subbing blu.

I feel the most useful thing /BLM would bring to the table is Conserve MP. Elemental Seal is nice but outright resists on this guy are pretty rare if you're 75, even more so if you've started meriting Enfeeb and ice accuracy. Note that due to Bind's randomness factor it is possible to get dud Binds even with ES, and that if he's already started to up his Gravity resistance, ES will not get past this either.

There is a marginal INT boost with /BLM, yes, but I'm not sure it would make up for the fact that it leaves you with no defensive spells (aside from what RDM gets naturally). You might eat up the extra MP you save just for Curing yourself... maybe. Your mileage may vary, but one thing I would count on happening is Charybdis eventually taking some swings at you (both RDMs) during this fight. Due to dud Binds this is almost unavoidable, so be prepared. Definitely munch down on some tank food, no matter what sub you use; it helps.

Oh and, bring your Bibiki Seashell. I intimidated this guy a few times with it. :D

Wouldn't having Phalanx/Stoneskin up and Utusemi:Ichi with Utsu:Ni cooldown to 0 work as well? Since you're not soloing Charybdis like Avesta was doing, I think it would provide better safety net than having a subbed BLU for occassional, yet dicey protection.

Quite possible, yes... both Cocoon and Utsusemi have their merits though. Utsusemi's protection is gone the moment you take one attack volley, whereas Cocoon will still stay up for its full 1:30 duration no matter what, which is the primary difference between these two spells. I guess it mostly depends on how well you think you'd be able to avoid being hit.

I liked /BLU better for PH soloing though (I am a Cocoon whore and the best part is I don't have to pay gil for it), but I'm sure that /NIN can also work really well here due to the fact you have another RDM backing you up, which puts a lot more ease on your Ni recasts. Another plus is that Charybdis's attack delay is slow enough that you could even fit Ichi in easily if need be, as long as you start casting immediately after you see his first "swing". It might prevent you from being able to get out of range in time to avoid getting hit with a second volley of attacks, though, so not sure. Could probably just rely on Ni mostly anyway.

Mebbe I could try it that way; Lago doesn't have /NIN up to 37 yet but now that he has his Joy I'm sure he'll be working on it XD

In /NIN's defense, about the only time you will get AoE'd by Charybdis fighting it this way is when it's already hit you a number of times and broken through your Stoneskin (meaning of course, it'll already have taken your shadows down via melee if you had any up), so you won't get any "wasted" Utsusemi casts like an actual blink tank would. In addition, it won't be able to cheese you like it could with a blink tank (Charybdis does AoE to take shadows down and immediately follow it up with a lucky attack volley that takes out your tank) because it will almost always be one of his attack rounds that triggers his own TP move... meaning, he won't be able to attack again immediately after hitting you once and using his TP, which gives you time to run, or even throw your own Bind if it's up. If a nuke triggers him to use TP, it will almost always be Hard Membrane or Regeneration (since you are out of range to be hit by any of his offensive TP moves, he will automatically default to one of his other moves that isn't offensive).

[tdh]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

I'm a big fan of /BLM, and I think /BLM would be rather helpful in duo/trio'n this NM. Since it's not a Sleep/Nuke situation, you're going to be doing some DoT while doing the nuking. Smack it with Bio, Poison, and some of the Elemental debuffs for some pretty respectable DoT while you're nuking away.

Of course there is Conserve MP, but for me I'm just far too dependant upon Drain and Aspir. (Good thing I'm a DRK too, huh?) So just incase you do take some damage once Blink, Phalanx, and Stoneskin get eaten through, you can Drain back some HP. Of course a Drain will never equal a Cure IV, but say you get a good 150~200HP Drain for 23MP. Can't beat that!

[Aeni]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

I'm a big fan of /BLM, and I think /BLM would be rather helpful in duo/trio'n this NM. Since it's not a Sleep/Nuke situation, you're going to be doing some DoT while doing the nuking. Smack it with Bio, Poison, and some of the Elemental debuffs for some pretty respectable DoT while you're nuking away.

Of course there is Conserve MP, but for me I'm just far too dependant upon Drain and Aspir. (Good thing I'm a DRK too, huh?) So just incase you do take some damage once Blink, Phalanx, and Stoneskin get eaten through, you can Drain back some HP. Of course a Drain will never equal a Cure IV, but say you get a good 150~200HP Drain for 23MP. Can't beat that!

I think the problem, tdh, is actually surviving Charybdis "Let's Get Physical" routine. It hits hard if you're unbuffed. Sure, Avesta made it look easy, but ever seen a naked NIN last through that "K-club" swing? It sucks, really. Unlike LoO which has a lower accuracy, Charybdis seems to not have any problem with those "lucky" hits.

Therefore, the primary strat is to be able to survive. Sometimes, as Fyn and TM above stated, he resists bind. What do you do then? Subbing BLM offers nothing and I highly doubt Stoneskin and Phalanx itself can withhold such brutal abuse. I have had a decent challenge Robber Crab blow my buff off on just one hit before (Either a lucky critical or TP move) It's almost too easy for Charybdis to do the same.

[Taskmage]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

Survival is the priority. With stoneskin, phalanx and cocoon up Charby could shred away 400 hp easily before I could react. Without phalanx and cocoon I was yelping out of melee range with 42 or so hp left on the bar. Scary stuff. It's possible that someone more experienced with kiting would know how to position themselves or have some other contingency plan for when the proverbial fecal matter inevitably happens, but that person isn't me yet, so the safety net of a defense stat inflated to the highest possible values makes me much more comfortable.

Thing with Drain is, if you're in a position to need healing, the last thing you want to do is damage Charby and break her bind prematurely. I certainly won't deny that elemental DoTs and Conserve MP would've made the fight go faster, though. Between Burn and the added int we might've even gotten fewer Bind resists.

[Fynlar]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

Maybe I'm just gimpy, but I never count on Drain having good results on normal mobs that are higher level than me at 75, let alone NMs. Isn't Charybdis like over level 80 or so? >_>

Damn our pathetic Dark Magic skill

But yeah, chances are good that Drain will break Bind anyway, so that's a no-no. Try to use Regen if/when you can. If you're in orange HP or so you definitely should Cure, though.


As for the elemental enfeebles, they could help speed it up yes, but what I'm wondering about is how well they'd stick. I noticed Poison 2, although it stuck most of the time, often lasted one minute instead of Bio 2's two minutes, most likely due to Charybdis probably being resistant to water. I dunno how well the elemental enfeebles would stick, particularly Burn, due to the fact we have a considerably lower skill rating to back those spells up. If you're gutsy enough to bring /BLM though it's worth trying.

I definitely won't say that it couldn't be done, but I don't think you'll catch me trying to fight this as /BLM. I'm way too much of a pansy for that >_> Loss of defensive spells means you're gonna be in for a hurtin' once it manages to catch up to you. I'm willing to give up a bit of kill speed for survival, especially when the nearby party/alliance is breathing down your neck, getting in your way, and spam-checking you waiting for you to choke and die so that they can steal the NM >_>


As for DRK, thanks to the introduction of Absorb-TP they can contribute lots in a fight like this, at least if you are fighting it the "traditional" way with a blink tank (probably not though if it's being kited by RDMs, mainly due to the fact that Charybdis will swing at anyone it can reach while bound). In addition to slowing down the TP gain of the NM, it allows the DRK to stock up TP to do a WS on Charybdis, without having to melee it (having anyone continuously melee it that isn't capable of tanking themselves is usually a bad idea).

Survival is the priority. With stoneskin, phalanx and cocoon up Charby could shred away 400 hp easily before I could react. Without phalanx and cocoon I was yelping out of melee range with 42 or so hp left on the bar. Scary stuff.

Heh, I remember that >_> I think that was one of our "oh snap, Gravity" moments XD

[Armando]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

Well, I don't have much to add to the discussion, but I just wanted to say this is some cool/impressive stuff, and thanks for finding an alternative way for those who still need to get their Joyeuse :3

[Aeni]

Re: A shout out to Taskmage

The only thing I need to add to any readers getting ideas about doing this themselves is that both TM an Fyn have done their homework and probably have a better understanding on what the NM can do.

For those of you that are fresh or green, the only thing you can do to prepare yourself is to sit in and watch other groups take down Chary or LoO. Note the kinds of abilities it uses and how much damage you can expect to take (min-max these figures at your disposal afterwards if you can have parsers running)

Also, take along some meds, preferably a Vile Elixir (+1s are better and you can get either off Hakutaku if you volunteer on runs where the "hatters" will leave all looting to the helpers) You just never know when it will come in handy. A scroll of reraise as well. IT would suck to spend so much time finding ToD, camping and then claiming only to lose it if something happens in the final 2% and you're not readily prepared for it...