The New Red Mage Spells

[Esoa]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

Carnage Elegy (50% Slow with Horn +1)

That's insane! No wonder people love bards.

[Hamlet]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

That only leaves one merit, at most, and frankly the difference between one and two merits in a spell is pretty tiny.

I'm just curious, but how do you know this? We've been able to merit spells for about 3 days now.

The description says paralyzeII +1 and magic accuracy +2 per merit. +1 seems tiny, but we don't really know how it's calculated.

[arkaine23]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

We scan the various internet ffxi forums for people who test recast values in dhiorama ahbjesl ghelsba whatever it is.

Slow II showed a max around 33% with a significant mnd difference between caster and target ... something like 78 difference in mnd. That was with 1 merit in the spell. Then I just saw another report of slow II with 2 merits capping close to 36% with a similar differential in mnd. On the low end, with caster and target have near identical mnd scores, around 22% minimum showed with one merit and around 25% minimum with 2 merits.

This is a significantly stronger spell than Slow (minumum slow value aroound 14%, max at 30% but very hard to reach) for all intents and purposes. And additional merits seem to actually provide a decent measurable increase in cap and in minumum. It's not that the cap is so much higher than the tier 1, but that you start much higher on the curve and have a much better chance of hitting the high end of the spell's effect.


PS- I've been in assaults (against Chigoes!) and xp parties where I stacked Slow II and the Bard's Carnage Elegy. Suffice it to say the mobs were nearly immobilized.

As far as casting these spells in xp parties go, you can do it regularly in those parties that take very little damage, or where its you + a WHM, or where you're fighting tough things like statues in sky, birds/rams in lufaise, or trolls in mount zhalom. They're a drain to mp to cast constantly though in fast paced groups, highly worthwhile to land on NM/HNM's.

[rrynn]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

one thing i've noticed, even with out "upgrading" it yet para II seems stickier then para did. i.e i can take off almost all of my enfeebling skill gear in favor of mnd gear and para II will still stick 98% of the time where as in that same gearset para 1 would of stuck abt 75% of the time. was meriting in luf.meadows casting para II for abt 3 hrs, only had it resist once, and the only enfeebling skill gear i had on for it at that point was my elite beret and enfeebling earring. (relevant merits are 4 lvs of enfeebling skill and 3 ice acc)

both paras are quite random, but on average more mnd = more procs from para. so simply for the ability to take off my tabard for my errant body and my torque for my promice badge and my master casters for my devotees mitts WITHOUT getting an unacceptable resist rate i like para II so far.

[Raydeus]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

I'm wondering, how long do tier II spells last on the mob and how much does meriting a spell helps that?

I want to know because of soloing/quest purposes really, xp/merit fights are too fast to be worth a recast.

[ziphor]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

Before i dump 24,000 exp into these spells, i want to see what everything is capable of...

Where's all the blind II tests... :/
I would do em, but i have neither the time, nor the patience (if i get lvl 3 and decide to demerit) to do the tests.

[Icemage]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

I had a chance to see Paralyze II in action last night. It didn't really seem all that useful. A bit stickier than Paralyze I, but not incredibly so. Proc rate against Kindred-type enemies in Dynamis-Xarcabard wasn't anything special either. If it was triggering more often, I certainly didn't notice, and the red mages I've spoken to who have it concur that the difference seems minimal at best at level 1.


Icemage

[BurningPanther]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

Perhaps, but maybe Paralyze 2 is worth more if you put full merits into it?

Now, I'm not going to waste all my spell merits simply to make that single one uber. That's what I'm hoping 1/2 MND merits, 1/3 ice acc. merits, and full enfeebling merits will do(when I get that far, anyhow).

The one spell that I can clearly see a difference in even in it's frist mod level is Slow 2. At first cast on a Heraldic Imp(VT?), I practically cut down it's turns by half. Though kills in Caedarva Mire are usually too quick to tell such things, I should pobably try it out in a more drawn out battle. Pity Lufaise camps are so rare nowadays.

At any rate, I'm hoping S-E will provide more points to allocate toward upgrading the spells in a future update. It'd be nice not to be penalized to choosing to have all six spells.

[Hamlet]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

I tried out slow2 in melee-burn tonight. It seemed to me to be pretty damn awesome (although costly). I asked if the melees noticed a difference but they didn't respond (probably watching TV or something, lazy melees!). But, from my backline vantage point, it really seemed to make the mobs noticeably slower.

I only casted it on the longer fights because the cost is so high, but I'm really looking forward to getting it fully meritted.

[Gobo]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

Got to try out Paralyze II against Proto-Omega eariler today. It was a pain in the ass to stick; took about 5 tries before it even stuck the first time. After it stuck it actually proc'd quite a bit while it stayed on. After the first wore off the recast immediately stuck, had a decent proc rate again. After that I went to focusing on stun/curing since it was in its "final" form. This was as RDM/DRK with 68+30 MND and 305 Enfeebling, no Ice Acc merits.

The other RDM who was there was casting Slow II and Blind II. Slow II stuck I think 4 times, while Blind II stuck once or twice (mind you the NINs were casting Kuyrami: Ni, the only spell new RDM merits don't override).

[Releena]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

Because the maximum effect of Slow I is +30% while the minimum is 15%,

Is the minimum effect of Slow I 15% even if the mob has more MND than you? I know it is 15% when your MND = target's MND, but I have not seen any data when the target has greater MND than the caster.

edit:

Here's some data on Slow II: http://64.39.26.234/limitbreak/files/guides/test.htm

Specifically, the line with caster's MND = 67 and target's MND = 129 showed Slow II to be only 13%, a lot less than a minimum of 22%.

[Apple Pie]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

I know it is 15% when your MND = target's MND

You're right. I guess I need to correct what I said on my previous post.

Slow I Effect = (100 + 0.2 * fMND + 13.68) / 100
fMND = Caster's MND - Target's MND (cap = 75)

The above is known formula for Slow I and when both the caster and the target has the same MND, Slow I effect is 13.68%. However as you pointed out, it can be weaker when the target has higher MND than the caster.

[Dragonsword]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

Dear Apple Pie, I note you choose Dia III over Bio III ^^ may I ask the rational behind as my tendency is kind of agreeing with Icemage on picking up Bio III.

[Releena]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

Dia III vs Bio III is going to be heavily dependent on what you're doing. Bio III may be extremely useful in Ballista or when you want to blood tank things as RDM/WAR or RDM/BLU.

The thing that people seem to forget is that Dia III will make all physical damage sources stronger, including avatar bloodpacts, which seem to be a favored way to approach HNMs these days. Faster kills lead to less damage taken and less healing required. As far as endgame goes, most advanced LS use various blink tanks which negate the -15% attack over the majority of the fight. Even when using PLD/WAR, against harder opponents you have an Aerial Armor rotation.

MNKs in Dynamis should not really be a problem. A few Stuns and Flashes should easily keep your tanks alive, along with cures from the tank PT WHM/RDM/PLDs. Alternatively, you could always Gravity the MNK and have your BLMs finish it.

[Dragonsword]

Re: The New Red Mage Spells

Agreed. ^^)V

Bio III + Poison II + kiting will be so useful on soloing NM, while Dia III will definitly helpful on HNM fights. Its really a matter of playing style and current involvement, kind of tough decision on my side.