What & When to Cast Spells....

[Mhurron]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

Should I miss the burst and cast Cure IV on the NIN tank who has 100 hp left or should I go for the MB?

Go for the burst.

[Icemage]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

Magic Burst is near the bottom of my priority list as RDM.

In order of priority:

• Sleep/Sleep II on any link

• Cure on any party member in red HP

• Silence on any spellcaster

• Blink on self (when any linked enemies are Asleep)

• Dispel on any non-Berserk-type enemy buff

• Refresh on primary MP users (Me, PLD, WHM, SMN, BLU, BLM)

• Mage's Ballad on MP users (when /BRD)

• Haste on Ninjas, and Paladins tanking enemies with weak Slow attacks

• Slow, Paralyze, Dia II on enemies with >25% HP

• Magic Burst if MP reserves allow

• Refresh on secondary MP users who are low (BRD, DRK, COR/WHM, etc.)

• Regen on myself if below my max HP

• Regen on any non-critical damaged party member (when WHM is not present, or sucks)

• Advancing March/Sword Madrigal on non-MP user melees (when /BRD)

• Haste on non-Ninja melees

• Stoneskin on self (when Convert timer is within 2 minutes)

• Blind, Gravity, Elemental enfeebles (when /BLM)

Notice how low on my priority list Magic Bursts are, and I'll only do that in parties where I think I can spend the extra MP - a rare case even as a Taru RDM, since I add much more damage by casting Haste on melees than on inconsistent MBs.


Icemage

[Patchinko]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

It's all situational.

Most important point in regards to magic bursting, I think.

Is magic bursting worth it? Absolutely... if it isn't a detriment to your available MP and isn't getting in the way of a clutch heal, then it's a significant chunk of damage, especially if paired with the right elemental staff, INT gear and some elemental skill/magic attack+ gear.

But, often if I'm the main healer in a PT I just don't have the time or resources to magic burst. Then again, if we have a WHM along, I can almost always do it. It's all situational.＾＾

[Tomatoes]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

I static with a PLD. Backline consists of me and a BLM. I've been dispelling Berserk, as well as applying Bio instead of Dia (when the BLM isn't doing it). I feel like this saves more MP in the long run by having to cure less. I'm considering switching to Dia in future battles, but we kill quickly as it is, so.. I dunno...

[TheGrandMom]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

I've been dispelling Berserk, ...

See now thats iffy. Some people prefer you leave Berserk up on a mob because they take more dmg when its up and then some scream at you to Dispel it. I won't Dispel it unless asked or I will ask what they prefer me to do in a pt. It's nice when you have a static though because you don't have to ask over and over in each new pt!

[samarium]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

See now thats iffy. Some people prefer you leave Berserk up on a mob because they take more dmg when its up and then some scream at you to Dispel it. I won't Dispel it unless asked or I will ask what they prefer me to do in a pt. It's nice when you have a static though because you don't have to ask over and over in each new pt!

I think (If I were a RDM) I would Dispel it if we had a PLD tank, and leave it up if we had a NIN.

In any case!

Go for the burst.

Darn skippy.

Uppity ninjas!

She doesn't have to make that choice - Burst or Cure - because I'm a WHM.

If you're invited to a party as a main healer, then you should adjust your priorities accordingly, but after 41 it's unlikely you'll be invited as such. I'll stick with my original thesis - debuff, burst/backup heal, refresh. Once you get Refresh up the first time in a party, you'll just keep going around the circle anyway, at most they'll be without it for a couple seconds while you re-stick your debuffs or Magic Burst. They'll live.

-sam

[Patchinko]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

Actually, RDM is often invited as main healer in PTs late into the game. In fact, RDM is often preferred in many PTs because the healing burden is low in many camps and they speed up the fights more than a WHM does. Of my last five parties, only one has had a WHM. The others all had one or two RDM as the main healer(s)!

[Mhurron]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

I think (If I were a RDM) I would Dispel it if we had a PLD tank, and leave it up if we had a NIN.

This is usually what I'm asked to do.

If you're invited to a party as a main healer, then you should adjust your priorities accordingly, but after 41 it's unlikely you'll be invited as such.

Once BRD gets Mage's Ballad 2 a RDM - BRD party will pretty much be a lot faster then a party with a WHM in it. I personally did 60-65 almost exclusively being invited as a main healer (RDM) and that was some of the fastest leveling I've done. Oddly enough, I also had less to do.

I'll stick with my original thesis - debuff, burst/backup heal, refresh. Once you get Refresh up the first time in a party, you'll just keep going around the circle anyway, at most they'll be without it for a couple seconds while you re-stick your debuffs or Magic Burst. They'll live.

-sam

Despite my preference to kill NINs, I never even tried hitting a MB until somewhere around 65, because it was around then that I was comfortable expending the MP to do it as opposed to holding on to it just in case. Resting for MP, even if it's only one or two ticks, should probably take priority. If you are watching the Convert counter because you don't know if you're going to have enough MP to make it till then, then you do not have the MP to do a MB.

[Icemage]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

If you are watching the Convert counter because you don't know if you're going to have enough MP to make it till then, then you do not have the MP to do a MB.

Hah. I'm checking my convert timer pretty often once I hit the 5 minute mark so I can ration my MP usage. Even as a Taru RDM with pretty good gear and getting 1000+ MP per Convert, it is rare for me to have the spare MP left over to magic burst with because I'd much rather spend it doing something more productive.

It's a bit easier with a WHM in the party, since I don't have to shell out large chunks of MP for Cure III and Cure IV all the time, but I still prefer to play solid backup healing and split enmity with the WHM rather than add minor amounts of damage with a magic burst (and I say that even with access to every RDM nuke except for Thunder III, at level 73).

Really the only time I ever really get into magic bursting on a semi-regular basis is with a RDM + BRD or COR + other healer setup (BLU/WHM, WHM/xxx, SMN/WHM), where I have significant amounts of additional MP recovery.


Icemage

[Patchinko]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

Strange, because as a Taru RDM with pretty good gear getting around 800MP per Convert, it's rare for me to have such spare MP that I can't MB at pretty much every renkei.＾＾ Unless I'm in a poorly formed PT where I'm the only healer or we have a warrior tank or something, I'm really not seeing these MP issues at all.

It may be related to the Eruca in the new zones being such easy XP mobs at this level, though I also had no problems in Bibiki Bay recently either.

Regardless, I don't really experience these major MP issues, and I don't consider over 300 damage to be a waste of MP at this level, given that it doesn't interfere with my other duties.

Whatever the case, I don't think a general rule of abstaining from magic bursting is very good. In my opinion, part of being a RDM is magic bursting. Feel free to disagree, but given the significant return after casting a magic burst, unless it's overkilling or causing you to run out of MP prematurely, I think not doing it is missing out on one of the many things that make RDMs valuable to a PT.

[samarium]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

OK, looks like I'm approaching dangerous territory, haha.

I'll just say that my li'l order of spells is meant for general advice and not to be used in every party as a cookie-cutter performance template. In your standard tank-melee-melee-nuker-healer-RDM party it works fine, but many people nowadays like to use non-standard party formats and as such it should be adjusted to focus on whatever it is the party wants you to do.

If you're invited to main heal, well then that's what takes first priority obviously. Keeping debuffs and refresh up will fit into the cracks between heals/nukes/whatever.

Personally I think an ounce of Enfeeble is worth a pound of cure (cliche alert), having been witness to a thousand Paralyzed mob WSes and interrupt-free Utsusemi recasts thanks to the combination of Slow and Blind. Having your mob miss your ninja with 20 MP worth of debuffs will save ~92 MP worth of Cure.

If I miss 3 ticks of Refresh so the RDM can re-stick enfeebles, I've lost 9 mp but saved 90.

-sam

[arkaine23]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

Everything you do is pretty much between refreshes. Delaying a refresh is not really a big deal though, so don't fret if you lose 10 seconds here or there because something else took priority. Two spells as mentioned usually fit perfectly between refresh casts. And at the start of the fight it'll be enfeebles, while further into the fight it will be cures or hastes or enfeeble recasts.

Things that usurp priority from this general cycle:
1)The need to dispel a mob buff. (Some mobs are extensively pre-buffed)
2)The need to silence a mage enemy.
3)The need to sleep a link, or if its dark resistant, bind/gravity to otherwise occupy it while your party kills the first enemy.
4)A cure bomb to save someone's life.
5)A magic burst.

You'll find ninjas will steal some of your enfeebles because they need the hate. Watch what they cast so you can skip it from your own cycle. I.E. If they're doing slow and blind, consistantly, then you'd handle dia, paralyze, gravity, and maybe poison II. If kill speed is very fast because your party is chaining T-VT-low IT, then enfeebles may not be worth your time and mp, and hasting/regening might be more significant uses for your mp.

Regen is incredibly efficient, don't underestimate it even when you're level 75. You might get overwritten by a white mage's superior regens, but its only 15mp, hardly a loss compared to say dropping a cure III. Still, you'll need to cure bomb now and then to save lives. And in some parties you'll be playing the role of a white mage. Don't cure paladins too much because they need to cure themselves for hate also. Be mindful of how the other mages in your party manage their mp. You have an advantage over them in your convert, which means you should do more with your MP since you can count on instant mp recovery every 10 minutes.

Haste is really something to discuss with the white mage/other red mage. Ninja tanks need it more than anybody else, it will also help paladins have a faster flash recast. It can actually cause problems for some DD's if they happen to be higher level or have superior gear comapred to the other attackers and tank. There are other cicumstances such as burn parties at endgame, where everyone physically attacking the mob should have it. Otherwise I consider it more useful to balance tp gain between SC partners and to put the tank a notch above the other attackers and have faster recasts.


Nuking.... After level 30 and before level 75 with elemental merits and elemental skill/magic acc gear, free nukes don't work so well. Drain however is a very efficient nuke against non dark-resistant enemies. It's only 21 mp and can be cast about every 40-45 seconds or so. Likewise Aspir is going to be your best friend the day you can slap on some dark skill and magic acc gear and get consistent 40-110 mp per cast. The magic burst of course is fun and speeds kills. Sometimes however you may notice the skillchain kills the mob, or the black mage's burst is more than sufficient. Try not to waste your mp if your Magic burst damage is not really needed or if you don't have the mp to spare. Nuking can change somewhat at endgame given we have better gear and merits available that can provide more skill and accuracy to our weaker schools of magic and more mp. I find I have the mp to free nuke often in quite a few different events, and do so quite decently in most situations.

[Sepa]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

Thank you all for your advice,
the thing about Refresh is, as soon as it wears off, you get a /tell from party
members saying, "Refresh," or, "Refresh ran out."

It seems the alway seem to forget that I need Refresh too; if I don't have any MP, how can cast Refresh on them. Common sense, but I guess not to all people.

And if you go to cast Slow first, the Mages get mad, and send you another /tell saying,
"Refresh," or, "I need Refresh"

And vice versa, you got to cast Refresh on the Mages and the Refresh and the Tanks and DD
/party "Slow, Dispel, Dia II, Silence"

But oh well, I'm not trying to bash on people; I guess hearing that comes with the job.
And I love my job, it seems like RedMage is the only Mage that can cast throughout the whole battle.

But anyway, thank you all for the advice!!!

[Murphie]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

I've personally never harassed a RDM for referesh right away, but I've definitely seen it happen.

[Sepa]

Re: What & When to Cast Spells....

With the spell Sleep,
Wouldn't that be better if the BlackMage put the link to sleep?

Well because no matter how high my Int is, the BlackMage's Int will always be higher.
And because the BlackMage's Int is higher, is there a better chance of Sleep sticking to the mob, and it lasting longer?

It seems every time I cast Sleep, Sleep II, I only get hate.