MND/MP <or> INT/MP????

[Patchinko]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

Actually, I was referring to the posts saying that RDMs nuking at all is not worth it. This is simply not true when it comes to magic bursts. The MP/damage ratio when magic bursting is high enough that it makes casting the spell worth it, and I'll even prioritize magic bursting when I know I'll be taking off 6-10% of the mob's HP. Having the various elemental staves is an important part of this, so I think those should be a priority for RDMs, even though many will not prioritize getting them.

And I'm totally all for filling the role the party needs as best you can. It's why I don't understand RDMs who refuse to have multiple subs available, or who refuse to main heal, etc. I mean I understand why they might be too busy to main heal, but to refuse outright before even joining a party seems a bit much.

I agree with this completely. RDM's role changes depending on the PT the RDM is in. The PT itself is what determines which spells will be cast, and therefore which gear will be worn. That's all the more reason for having gear that fits all possible situations the best, if possible. At the very least, having a different set of rings/earrings and both WHM and BLM for sub is important for us!

[Lilani]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

Unless you're referring to the post above mine, in which case just feel free to ignore me. :/

Lol, I was, chill out man

And you won't get in trouble for saying that, although there might be some RDM purists who will fuss and whatnot. The main reason we refuse to main heal is because we suck at it, at least when we get more responsibilities like refresh and haste. And the reason we'll refuse the invite if they want us to main heal is because, obviously, they don't have a main healer and none are available. Thus making the party disfunctional, unless the tank is a very brave PLD with a lot of MP.

And the only reasons I don't have my WHM leveled enough to use it as a sub is because I don't like the job very much and I like my warp spell, lol.

[Murphie]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

Heh, just checking.^^ These things can get so volatile.

[Patchinko]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

And you won't get in trouble for saying that, although there might be some RDM purists who will fuss and whatnot. The main reason we refuse to main heal is because we suck at it, at least when we get more responsibilities like refresh and haste. And the reason we'll refuse the invite if they want us to main heal is because, obviously, they don't have a main healer and none are available. Thus making the party disfunctional, unless the tank is a very brave PLD with a lot of MP.

By "we", I assume you don't mean all RDMs. Because I have no problem being the main healer in a PT and I do a fine job of it to boot.＾＾

[kuu]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

There's also poison, of course, which can be very important at times. I actually find MND and INT equally important, but I'm more for INT in most party situations:

INT:
-Blind
-Sleep
-Gravity
-Poison
-Elemental Enfeebles (BLM sub only)
-Drain/Aspir (again, BLM sub only)
-The periodic nuke (in case you get bored or have to MB)

MND:
-Paralyze
-Slow
-Cures (vital after convert)
-Stoneskin (again, vital after convert)
-Dia

Concidering Elvaan have high MND and low MP in the first place, I would really suggest a BLM sub. BLM gives you higher INT and a bigger MP boost than a /WHM. Plus you get aspir which is useful in tight MP situations, warp which is useful in almost all party situations, drain which is fun and helpful after convert (to help make up for the HP you didn't recover from that first cure III or cure IV). Plus there's elemental enfeebles so that you can help the party out if there is no BLM in the party (and if you have the time/MP to spare).

As for items that boost INT, I use Rolanberry pies in parties. They give you a great MP boost and a good INT boost as well. At 51 you'll be able to use the elemental staves, so I suggest getting light, dark, and ice. Light boosts your cures 10%, which helps after convert. Dark adds +10 to the MP you recover while you rest. And, ice gives you +4 INT and +10 elemental magic skill, which is great if you are having trouble boosting your INT.

I respect your opinion, Icemage...I just don't agree with it.

Doesn't quote work out in Real world situations.

Int based enfeebles are not on the top piority list. And any xp fight that takes more then 4 enfeebles, the your pt is either doing a bad job, or you're chewing more then you should be .

And order for rdm is usually
silence
gravity(sometimes, not always worth it depending on enemies)
Slow
dia/2
para
---repeat above if wore off or other priorities
blind maybe, if it's a nin tank

bio 2 are for wimps IMO, as dia2 is better as killing it before it kills you is a standard xp motto these days. Unless you're biting more then you can chew, bio is for blms to skill up drk magic.

Drain and aspir isn't that great, and you're probably es ing it anyway, since your drk magic is bad. (so every 10 min)

If even that, as in link camps, a rdm should be saving es for sleep/silence issues.

And frost is only so so, if you have time, or a pt isn't eating their wheaties...errr...sushi

Usually rdms stop by para, there's such a thing as too many enfeebles, as there are other things they should be doing like Refresh multiple mages.

Not saying int isn't needed, but mnd is that much more useful in standard pts.

There will be some slots in eq that don't have any good +mnd gear, and you can stick those in int, like morrions, etc.

EQ for rdms should be something like
(besides staves)
mag acc > mnd/mp > int > mag attk

Though if I remember right, rdm af, will dominate your needs for a good bit.

[Patchinko]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

I think the major problem with this thread is that it's forcing us to choose MND or INT when the best RDMs choose MND and INT by getting the best gear for all situations and using equipment switching macros to maximize their effectiveness with every individual spell.

[nazlfrag]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

Like taskmage said, but personally am addicted to goblin mushpot.. nice to see paralyze stick ^^ as an elvaan you can make your best stat godly, but you sacrifice the int.. the best food I use is melon pie +1, which gives a slight +hmp bonus, with the +int and +mnd. It will make you all rounded, but isn't cheap.

[Taskmage]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

Hmm, I've gotta give those mushpots a try. My weak taru mnd is always lagging behind my huge taru int no matter what I do with equipment. Same total to casting stats as the Brain Stew (considering I rarely get to sit anyway) and way cheaper.

I think the major problem with this thread is that it's forcing us to choose MND or INT when the best RDMs choose MND and INT by getting the best gear for all situations and using equipment switching macros to maximize their effectiveness with every individual spell.

Patch wins the thread. The best choice is both. If you have money issues and can absolutely only afford one or the other, I guess go with mnd, but after that party go out and farm.

[kuu]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

Not quite

There is only so much inv space, so much macro switching, so much blinking like an idiot, and only one type of food per session.

Even if you did have the money to get every kind of gears for each situations, there's on;y so much you can do.

Every Rdm will have to choose, no matter how much you try to shoe horn it.

Like casting fire3 with an ice staff because it has +10 elemental magic, it's a choice a rdm has to make.

This thread is to help rdms make rational choices, not to shoe horn everything.

It's like saying, do I farm or xp? when you can easily answer, just goto IGE, all your problems are solved..doesn't quite win the arguement.

[Taskmage]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

It doesn't take that much money and space to get an int and mnd set for your hands, rings, and neck slot, which is really as much as someone his level or my level needs to worry about. Other slots either have catch-alls like Red Cape, Royal Knight's Belt and Magic Cuisses, or don't offer enough stat swing to warrant gear-swapping.

Both stats are important for rdm. If you're forced to choose then choose, but dedicate some time outside of parties to earning the money to supplement your other stat. I wouldn't take a rdm seriously that had the mindset that "I only need mnd" or "That stat isn't as important so I ignore it" when it's really not that hard to do both.

Double Post Edited:
I realize it's not easy to make money in the game, but that doesn't mean you should just ignore it and buy gil so you can exp all the time. If you come to a party with sub-par stat boosts I'm not going to call you gimp or get on your case, but if you don't work to improve your gear or buy gil to sidestep the problem, I'm going to consider you a bad player. Both int and mnd are needed for a rdm and both exp and farming are needed for any player. To choose one or the other is not playing the game to your best.

[Patchinko]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

I don't think I was unclear when I said the best RDMs carry around multiple sets of gear? If one wants to be mediocre, he or she can go ahead and just have a MND set. If one wants to be the best, he or she will have sets that maximize his or her capabilities in any situation.

Limited bag space? I carry around INT, MND and soloing gear all in one bag and have typically 15-20 slots open in my bag.

Macro problems? You have six slots per macro. You can use multiple macros to change equipment or, if on PC, a console program to make longer macros. Not a reasonable excuse for limiting yourself, in my opinion. I have multiple sets of gear and so far still don't use more than the six slots in each macro spot. My spells are rarely resisted and reach maximum effectiveness.

Basically, I see no reason to tell a newer RDM that it's "okay" to be mediocre. I think that most of us want to be as powerful as we can be, and for a RDM, that requires having multiple sets of gear to accentuate the required stats for each spell we cast.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

Basically, I see no reason to tell a newer RDM that it's "okay" to be mediocre. I think that most of us want to be as powerful as we can be, and for a RDM, that requires having multiple sets of gear to accentuate the required stats for each spell we cast.

I think even to hit "mediocre" (i.e. able to do job, not exp leech) as a RDM, macros for equipement switching are necessary.

[kuu]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

That's an elitest attitude, that can give rdms a worse name on one side of the fence then on the other side.

Everyone has a certain threshold for how much they can afford vs how much inv, vs commitment.

Maybe you can have 20 slots, but everyone is different, some people just need to carry stuff stuff and more stuff. Just switching jobs for me is enough to fill up inv.

No one says int is worthless, but a choice is a choice.

And this is not even dealing with the money issue, I rather get 2 HQs on important aspects then swap of death. And even equipment need to be changed every so often.

Everything must be weighed. Just like not buying armor every level.

You don't have to be the blinking member of Altana to xp effectively.

[Murphie]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

I don't think it's out of line to suggest that people take the time to farm/quest/garden/craft/whatever until they can afford the gear they need to level with. I also don't think it's out of line to expect others to make the most of their inventory spaces and the gear that they have available to them.

It's one thing to expect everyone to have the best gear ever. It's another thing altogether to expect people to carry the gear they need to do their job adequately.

[Aeni]

Re: MND/MP &lt;or&gt; INT/MP????

I don't think I was unclear when I said the best RDMs carry around multiple sets of gear? If one wants to be mediocre, he or she can go ahead and just have a MND set. If one wants to be the best, he or she will have sets that maximize his or her capabilities in any situation.

I take offense to this, Patchi. You're saying that if I don't have that VC, HQ rings, Penitent's Rope, enfeebling torque and earring, etc. that I'm mediocre? Best RDMs carry around multiple sets of gear and what I've outlined is basically just that ... extra refresh, extra +mp, +mnd bonuses, etc. over your current gear and as well as a few extra which I do swap in.

Gobbie Bags are also anywhere from 1 mil to 3 mil from 30 slots to 60 slots depending on your server.

Let's not forget elemental staves are already 8 slots (I have all eight) which is a significant loss of space.

You want beastmen seals as well as crystals, you need extra slots for those.

Don't forget, you should also carry around medicine for emergencies (I always do)

I'm at 50 slots and it's not enough. I doubt 60 slots is even enough either. So what you're proposing is so far out there that it's almost impossible for anyone else to do either. Either that or come up with a hefty amount of gil since only luxury items have both +MND and +INT and in any case, you won't even be swapping most of the time anyway, since they're that good and don't have anything else to swap with that is inferior in both price and bonuses.