too much MP?

[WishMaster3K]

Re: too much MP?

That's a good point Icemage, but I agree with you for different motives than your own. My logic is that I am more willing to cast things if I can, because I have an active way of refilling my MP pool while a BLM or a WHM does not.

[Taskmage]

Re: too much MP?

AGREED! Or some melee will be yelling "Dispel! Dispel!" and even though I know it doesn't need Dispel, I will cast it. (More MP down the drain! Melee please don't yell at us for Dispel unless you're a 100% sure it needs it! You know sometimes you might just be missing or hitting for 0 well....just because SE hates us! LOL) Then right after I cast it, what does the mob do? A dang buff! It's like the mob is saying "Oh! Thanks for reminding me!"

Some people, I've noticed, haven't yet realized that you can't Dispel a ten level difference between the mobs and the melee.

[Aeni]

Re: too much MP?

Well, I'm on both sides of this "discussion."

However, I am not adverse or shy to using convert in PTs (I just know when to use it and how to use it so I don't get any hate from the process) If the PT is rawking, there's no such thing as a down time. This usually happens in VT chaining PTs and almost always with myself being the main healer (RDM/WHM)

In other PTs, we could be fighting lolwtfhnm-IT mobs and I'd still be crying for convert to magically come up in 2 minutes.

Either way, I never once was in a PT where I could just sit. Wait, I stand corrected. if the puller is shitty or if we can't get any mobs for any reason, I've been in situations where I'd take a kneel for 5 minutes and get back all the mp in the world. At this point, however, I'm still maintaining refresh cycles and haste cycles. Probably why I'm always near cap with my enhancing ...

[Bothari]

Re: too much MP?

300MP isn't significant?

Hmm.. ya.. 300 is a bit

will get you 300 MP, which taken against a normal convert return of 600 MP isnt too bad.

K.. let me try and put this better. I rested.. and recovered 300 MP after 10 mins. You

juice your MP spending right before Convert comes up

Then you convert. Now you have 600 MP. You use 180 MP to fix yourself up (+ 30 for stoneskin but that goes out of you HP so its not counted). You're left with 420 MP. In the time you did this I got another tick of MP. So now w/o convert I have 330 MP you have 420 MP. I'm not saying i have has much MP .. but.. i still have convert up.

Edit: Also, If you dont use the MP then you lose it on your first equip swap ..

[Jei]

Re: too much MP?

Not at all. Belive me 99% of the time I can always convert after fight. Rarely that I have to do it mid ifght. You have to plan your convert ahead of time, it's easy to see if you're MP will last the next fight or not. And whne converting during down time, you don't even need stoneskin or blink at all. You don't even need to completely cure yourself up. A cure 2 or 3 with regen is more than enough. Don't forget you have 10 minutes to regain your HP too. And it's very unlikely that the Whm or other mage will not help cure/regen you on top of that. So even more MP safed for yourself.


Even if you convert mid fight, you can be smart about it and only use cure 3 + regen on yourself to not call hate. You might not even get hit at all like this and having stoneskin is just a safeguard. If you convery mid fight and throw 2 cure 4 on yourself you'll gonna get hate of course.


In my case I'm a Rdm/whm mainly, seal + convert + cure 4 I got everything back in a second. 800HP 750MP in an instant. (I have both HP and MP around 800 at my level.)

[Icemage]

Re: too much MP?

I rarely if ever lose MP on gearswap after Convert. I use a "switch to MP" and "switch to normal" macro that leaves my most important MP conversion gear in place (Rep. Gold Medal/Star Necklace, Astral Aspis, Crimson Bade, Astral Ring, Powerful Rope, Empowering Mantle, etc.) until I've spent down enough MP to not lose anything from swapping into offensive casting gear, which rarely takes more than a few seconds.

At level 62 my HP/MP stats as Taru RDM/BRD (Tarutaru, but note the 0 MP subjob) were, without food:

HP: 809
MP: 770

I don't have my exact stats from level 56, but I'm guessing they were somewhere in the 700ish range, plus food bonuses. As I recall, I was net ~500-550+ MP on every Convert at that level, and that's with a 0MP subjob. My numbers went up quite a bit with /WHM or /BLM subjobs due to less dependence on HP>MP gear.

Incidentally, nothing stops me from grabbing a tick or two of rest where I can, too. It's just that recently I rarely if ever get a chance to unless someone goes AFK; the parties are just too fast-paced. They weren't quite so bad in the mid-50s, but even, getting even a single tick of rest was a challenge without having at least one spell that needed casting.


Icemage

[Bothari]

Re: too much MP?

Rep. Gold Medal/Star Necklace, Astral Aspis, Crimson Bade, Astral Ring, Powerful Rope, Empowering Mantle, etc.

You just lost out on Staff effects, 7 enfeeb, and 15 int/mnd for the whole time you havent used up that MP. And you say you use up that MP in a few seconds.. then it'd mean you're just spent 180MP+ in a few seconds and defensively (because offensively u've taken too huge a hit to be effective).

Not at all. Belive me 99% of the time I can always convert after fight

Um? where'd I imply converting mid fight?

and it's very unlikely that the Whm or other mage will not help cure/regen you

Ya... !!! BAH!! and most whms i know.. will do this with a cure 5. There goes effeciency.

I don't have my exact stats from level 56

Base HP = 708 Base MP = 521 With full MP setup i'd think about 650 MP. Out of which u'd need to use up the 130 MP+ quickly neways. And since u're taru, it could play a bit different than for hume so i'm not sure there.

Incidentally, nothing stops me from grabbing a tick or two of rest where I can, too. It's just that recently I rarely if ever get a chance to unless someone goes AFK

Same goes for convert.. nothing stops me from converting when we're low on MP.. its not like @ 50 MP I take a knee and try to get back to 500. But we do try to make that point when you get to 50 MP come as late as possible.

[Patchinko]

Re: too much MP?

I think there is a misconception that running at full efficiency by taking advantage of convert whenever its up means the RDM is constantly low on MP or that he never sits. This is definitely not the case. A tick of healing is basically free MP, so it’s worth using it when possible. But in many cases, it is more efficient for the RDM to haste a third melee or cast an offensive spell if he’s still high on MP late into his convert cycle.

It takes attentiveness and a knowledge of your PT situation to judge how to play. But again, optimal efficiency is obtained by using up your MP and using convert whenever it is available.

It is not, in my opinion, a reasonable excuse to save convert to say, “It’s for emergencies to use with chainspell.” This is a very inefficient way of playing. For one thing, even if you are in your last minute before convert is back, you will have well over 100MP. You never “run out” in a normal situation.

If you are worried about this kind of thing, spend some gil and buy a few Hi-Ethers. That’s what they’re for. Convert, on the other hand, is meant to keep the exp chains coming.

[Jei]

Re: too much MP?

I'm saying after battle to counter your arguement about stoneskin and blink. You only have to stoneskin yourself if you're doing it mid battle.
And on a side not, yes sometimes the Whm will cure 5 on my, altho I usually get a regen 2/3 from them. Which doesn't hurt anything. Whm usually has more than enough MP under my care. And you're not wasting as much MP as you claimed either way.

[Icemage]

Re: too much MP?

You just lost out on Staff effects, 7 enfeeb, and 15 int/mnd for the whole time you havent used up that MP. And you say you use up that MP in a few seconds.. then it'd mean you're just spent 180MP+ in a few seconds and defensively (because offensively u've taken too huge a hit to be effective).

Cure IV is 88MP. That instantly gives me back access to the basic gears that I need to cast all my spells without worrying too much (Elemental Staff, Warlock's Tabard, Warlock's Chapeau, Enfeebling Torque). My "casting gear" setup is stuff that adds more potency to my spells but isn't critical, such as Warlock's Tights for +3 MND, and Master Caster's Bracelets for +7 Enfeebling.

I spend the rest of the "over the top" Convert MP on a Haste, Regen, Refresh or a Cure or two. Takes about 15 seconds total, and then I'm back in top form with a full MP bar.

Ya... !!! BAH!! and most whms i know.. will do this with a cure 5. There goes effeciency.

This is solved with {Cure V}{No thanks.}{Regen II/III}{please} to the WHM.

Base HP = 708 Base MP = 521 With full MP setup i'd think about 650 MP. Out of which u'd need to use up the 130 MP+ quickly neways. And since u're taru, it could play a bit different than for hume so i'm not sure there.

You're over-exaggerating the amount of MP that has to be spent immediately. Quite a bit of my standard gear at that level had MP on it (and still does at level 68). Warlock's Tights, Warlock's Boots, Fortune Egg, Enhancing Earring, Trump Crown, Warlock's Gloves, Tamas Ring all add up to about 70-75MP at level 56.

One Cure IV and one Haste/Refresh or a Cure III on someone who needs it is usually more than sufficient to push my current MP down below my normal MP cap, and if not, I just leave the optional gears off until it does - none of it is so critical that I can't live without it for a few seconds.


Icemage

[Aeni]

Re: too much MP?

I'm saying after battle to counter your arguement about stoneskin and blink. You only have to stoneskin yourself if you're doing it mid battle.

I spend roughly 100 mp total or less on myself in form of buffing every hour or more. I usually run to a nice spot (I do this all the time, so I've figured out what's the best distance to do this) and run my convert process. Divine Seal + Cure IV and I get 0 hate from it. I've never been to a camp where I can't do this yet. Even in close quarters, I still can pull this off

I think Patchinko is right. If you're worried about emergencies, then you get a curaga earring, a stack of mulsum, etc. You know, I find most JP players have items, like medicines, yet you don't see many NA players with them. This includes echo drops, antidotes, a couple of X-Potions, an Icarus Wing (For melee) ... hell, I've even partied with a PLD that used a vile elixir in an emergency. Not saying everyone should blow money on stuff like this, but that having a few of the "cheaper" but important medicines can really come in handy in a pinch (Think of it as McGuyver's lil' tool wallet or something)