*screams!*

[Seijurohiko]

Re: *screams!*

While I agree the RDM Maat fight does very little to represent or impact a RDM's more common group-related roles, I do think the player in the OP is ultimately doing the RDM in question a disservice overall.

I don't know about everyone else here, but when I finally managed to take Maat down, I felt a definate sense of accomplishment over the victory. This sense of accomplishment is, in my opinion, a significant aspect of the FFXI (and MMORPG's in general) experience, and is one reason why I've never really understood things like gil buying, PL's and employing third parties to do things for you (not meaning having high level help, but rather, having another person actively log into your account and "play the game for you").

Finally saving up enough gil and buying that new piece of gear you've been drooling over, finally claiming and getting the drop off that NM you've been camping, leveling up and getting access to that uber WS or nifty JA... these are all things that serve as "rewards" for time and effort spent in this game. Having someone else do these things for you detracts from the game experience.

The fact that this RDM would seek outside help speaks more about their character than the actual fight does about their skill imo. In their haste to level up, they are ulitmately cheating themselves out of a great RDM experience, and sending a message to others that they may be an impatient and lazy player. Such players are often viewed on as having sub-par skills (whether this is true or not).

[Aeni]

Re: *screams!*

And thats why if it takes a team you shouldn't go out and solo it for the person right? Yet, many high lvls do this all the time. If its a team effort, then the person should shout and shout and form a team on their own and find their way to the camping spot and kill it as a team. FYI, team in this game does not mean duo or trio, its a full 6 member+ team. So we are advancing people and not letting them meet the challange the way the game was intended to be played. Same if someone else beats the Maat fight for you. How about getting going out and solo'ing coffer keys for new players? How about leading them around and getting them an airship pass? Come on, seriously, the arguement holds no merit at all.

It still does. For one reason. You don't need to play on another player's account to complete the first few Genkais. Philosophically, the Genkais are meant to be tests for players, both as a group and individually. In order to "help" someone with Genkai 5, the last and therefore the most arduous of the tests, you have to log on to their account.

If this person does not attemp to at least try once, then again, he/she should just go play another game. Like I said, the accomplishment would be fuller if done by the individual rather than having someone do it for them. It's like having a friend do your homework for you. What have you learned? Absolutely nothing.

I hold this belief that if you fail at either end, you're not good enough to play this game. Macht said something about one's ability shouldn't be compared in either case. To me that's total bullshit. It's either you are good or not. You cannot say I suck at MB as BLM, but I heal well so I'm still a good player. No, you just downright suck as a BLM. If you fail at a number of things, then you cannot say you are good.

Again, I do not believe that the OP is correct in saying that there is wrong in what's going on. There isn't any right or wrong with what the person is doing. However, to say that this does not say anything about one's ability to play this game is total BS. There is no other measure of one's individual skill in this game other than G5. It's basically the only "test" I know of pitting the player (stripping them of subjobs even) against an AI opponent and testing that player's ability and KNOWLEDGE of one's job class. There is more to a RDM than just casting Dispel and Refresh and if you can't even grasp that, then most of you just fail at your jobs as well.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: *screams!*

in short: you arent any more special for beating maat as rdm than someone who didnt need to.

Exactly.

I know a rdm that had someone beat Maat for them and was known as one of the great rdms on our server. He solo'd many nm's/hnm/avatars/and even a god. But by some people's logic, he would be a terrible player because he didn't solo Maat himself. Oooooooooooookay......

[Patchinko]

Re: *screams!*

Oh, don't misinterpret me. I think everyone should do their own Genkai 5 because the point of it is to test your limits as a soloer in that class, which is important (especially for RDMs, where the best are seperated from the rest by their solo capabilities). That said, making some determination about someone's PT abilities based on their solo abilities is just silly. We all know solo RDM and PT RDM are completely different from each other.

[Fynlar]

Re: *screams!*

Am I wrong at being pissed off at a scenario like this?

Yeah, I'd say you are. How does someone's performance in a solo luck-based fight have anything to do with their ability to perform in a group (pretty much the entire content of the game past level 10-20)?

Maybe it's just me, but RDM Maat is a poor way to judge someone's ability in the job. For all I know the guy really could be a crappy player, but with the lack of evidence provided, I can only assume the possibility that you're just jumping the gun.

[Artsfalcon]

Re: *screams!*

Skipping Maat is skipping a test. And not just a test of solo ability or your rdm skills but a test of determination. A test of resolve.

This is a *how bad do you wanna be "the man/the woman"* test.

This is an "eye of the tiger" test.

Some folks get lucky, some don't. But dodging the test is saying to yourself that you don't have the determination to get it done no matter how hard(or easy) it gets. Your saying to yourself that shortcuts are all that matter and I'm not up to every challenge. You're saying to yourself that RDM-Maat owns you.... forever and ever.

Art.

[Omni]

Re: *screams!*

again, it doesnt make you any more or less skilled.

as far as this being a 'test', it is NOT a test.

a test doesnt have a walk-through printed out for you online. a test doesnt tell you that if you buff up, drink a yagudo drink, fight on windsday, dispel maats shell, bring hi-ethers, aero III, etc...is the best way to beat maat. a test is to determine your knowledge of the subject at hand and this is at best a gauge of how well you follow directions and how lucky you are if maat doesnt decide to raging fist you more times than the next rdm in line.

[Aeni]

Re: *screams!*

again, it doesnt make you any more or less skilled.

as far as this being a 'test', it is NOT a test.

a test doesnt have a walk-through printed out for you online. a test doesnt tell you that if you buff up, drink a yagudo drink, fight on windsday, dispel maats shell, bring hi-ethers, aero III, etc...is the best way to beat maat. a test is to determine your knowledge of the subject at hand and this is at best a gauge of how well you follow directions and how lucky you are if maat doesnt decide to raging fist you more times than the next rdm in line.

Then in your words, nothing in this game is really worth the bother... m'kay. I mean, strats for AV are up everywhere. Does this make it any less significant or meaningful?

[Omni]

Re: *screams!*

no that isnt my point. my point is that not fighting maat has no bearing on your skill as a rdm. that has been my point about this from my first post.

when people talk about beating maat as a 'test' like equating it to some rl challange you would face and that it gives you some otherwise unobtainable skill that otherwise is vacant from those that do not face maat, i find that amusing.

if i took my rdm to 75, and since i already beat maat are you telling me that someone who beat maat is just inherently better than me when i could very well put in the same dedication and pride into the job? sorry, but i find that hard to believe.

>>Player : Because you're not doing your friend any favors.
>>Player : She will always be a sub-par Red.
>>Player : All you're doing is unleashing another clueless rdm on the world. We have too many of those already.

this is what i object to about the OP.

[LoneGamer]

Re: *screams!*

Omni-Ragnarok, in real life you can prepare for tests as well. You can look at old tests on the same material, speak to people who have taken the test before and get their thoughts. Does that mean that a college math test is meaningless because you can get help in preparation, just like limit 5?

[Omni]

Re: *screams!*

I have no problems with the preparation or meaning of the test or whatever. That again is not my point. My point is that you passing your calculus 20b class does not necessarily make you the better C++ programmer than your buddy that failed his calculus 20b class.

Fighting maat != your effectiveness and skill as a rdm in pt/alliance. They are 2 different things. if the OP wanted to make the point like well, a rdm that cant beat maat might be less skilled at soloing things, then I'm sure there are some valid points that could be made there.

Like I said, if i was a 75 rdm would i be a sub-par clueless rdm just because i didnt beat maat? no.

[Artsfalcon]

Re: *screams!*

Yes, A rdm that dodges Maat may or may not have superior skills.

But the rdm who takes Maat on... fights for the win and gets it is a rdm that has proven his determination in a singular definitive quest for rdm mastery.

This is a rdm that can look Maat *square in the eye* and smirk instead of cower.

Yeah, I'm being melodramtic. But this is a roleplaying game! Challenges are not ment to be dodged, dammit.

Double Post Edited:
I'm kind of upset, Omni.

A lot of RDMs lucked out and got through this test without any trouble, but there are rdm who fought and fought and fought to get that win. To Earn that victory.

To cheapen that accomplishment by saying it means nothing to the value of skill and determination is a foul slap in the face.

There are rdm who got incredibly lucky. I'm sure the battle still improved their skills a little.
Then there are the rdm who had to pry the win from Maat's cold dead hands. These rdms are much better for the trip than they ever where before.

No way this battle fails to turn out a better rdm.

The win from this battle goes on the top of the shelf for the trophy case.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: *screams!*

I don't think Omni is trying to "cheapen that accomplishment" of any rdm. What he is saying is that the people claiming that a rdm HAS to beat Maat or they are not a very good party rdm are incorrect. That your solo abilities have little to do with your ability to be a benefit to your party.

[Artsfalcon]

Re: *screams!*

I see what you mean, Grandmom (love that name)
If it's what you say then I have no problem with that statement at all.

If thats the case, then it's back to personal opinion about the maat fight.
I still *feel* every rdm "needs" that fight.

[JeanRC]

Re: *screams!*

go back to when the g5 just started and u know how hard is rdm g5 before anything changes. i try like 20 times lol. he always do asura fist and dragon kick on me and not ragging fist. i wonder do they still do asura n dragon kick now.