RDM/PLD over RDM/DRK?

[Karinya]

Re: RDM/PLD over RDM/DRK?

Actually the PLDs in my HNM shell have been experimenting with PLD/BLU. Very powerful. With full Koenig gear and such, PLD75/BLU37 had well over 500 DEF without food with Coccoon.

As for hate tools... Healing Breeze is effectively a Curaga, and with sufficient +enmity gear, it can rack up some serious hate, especially if you've lost control of hate and can finish casting it w/o interruption. I could see PLDs using Club/Shield and spamming Moonlight for this same reason...

Unfortunately, even with the TP Bonus of Martial Wand (which IS PLD usable), Moonlight still only returns about 30-35 MP at 100% TP. Spirit Taker might be a better option, if Cocoon allows you to go shieldless (and if you need more MP than you can get from Refresh and/or Ballad plus Auto-Refresh). On EP you can refill your entire manapool in one hit.

What happnes if you do physical blue magic with a 2-handed weapon (through PLD/BLU, DRK/BLU etc.?) I'm imagining Bludgeoning some poor skeleton with a primate staff... not only is it a 2h weapon with 68 (I think) DMG, it's also a blunt weapon against skeletons AND an arcana technique against undead.

[Taskmage]

Re: RDM/PLD over RDM/DRK?

That 35 mp from Moonlight may be more significant than you think. I thought it was crap when I got it too, but recently I got Energy Steal/Drain for my dagger, and in using that I've noticed a major difference in my available mp. That 35-40 mp it gives really adds up.

[Icemage]

Re: RDM/PLD over RDM/DRK?

Unfortunately, even with the TP Bonus of Martial Wand (which IS PLD usable), Moonlight still only returns about 30-35 MP at 100% TP. Spirit Taker might be a better option, if Cocoon allows you to go shieldless (and if you need more MP than you can get from Refresh and/or Ballad plus Auto-Refresh). On EP you can refill your entire manapool in one hit.

In HNM situations, Spirit Taker does very little damage, and thus returns 0 or close to 0 MP. Moonlight is also AoE which "should"(need to test this) add to your enmity total. And in a PLD-tank HNM party, all 6 members will typically have MP, which means that 30-35MP turns into 180-210MP total; this is very significant.

What happnes if you do physical blue magic with a 2-handed weapon (through PLD/BLU, DRK/BLU etc.?) I'm imagining Bludgeoning some poor skeleton with a primate staff... not only is it a 2h weapon with 68 (I think) DMG, it's also a blunt weapon against skeletons AND an arcana technique against undead.

I would imagine that physical blue magic will trigger off your blue magic skill for accuracy in some way to prevent abuses such as you describe. If S-E hasn't already done so, expect it to happen.


Icemage

[Karinya]

Re: RDM/PLD over RDM/DRK?

In HNM situations, Spirit Taker does very little damage, and thus returns 0 or close to 0 MP. Moonlight is also AoE which "should"(need to test this) add to your enmity total. And in a PLD-tank HNM party, all 6 members will typically have MP, which means that 30-35MP turns into 180-210MP total; this is very significant.

Hmm, they're using /BLU *against HNMs*? And maintaining hate? Interesting. I'd certainly like to see video of that. (But in an HNM situation, how does a tank get any TP in the first place? Get 2 TP for every 300 damage hit you take?)

I don't know how much, if any, hate you get from restoring MP (suddenly, that is - I know you get very little from Refresh/Ballad). But it would be interesting to study.

I would imagine that physical blue magic will trigger off your blue magic skill for accuracy in some way to prevent abuses such as you describe. If S-E hasn't already done so, expect it to happen.

I don't know about that. Not all advanced jobs are designed to be useless as sub. You might as well say "I would imagine that Utsusemi wouldn't stop all hits if your ninjutsu skill is low to prevent abuses"...

Quite possibly the answer to this is that level 40+ physical blue magics are stronger, and/or blue magics performed with Chain Affinity are stronger, so that blue mages stay better at blue magic even when they're using an inferior weapon to do it. Bludgeon with a primate staff may not stack up that well to Spinal Cleave or Hysteric Barrage with a DMG 40 sword.

I think it's quite possible that physical blue magics will be fairly effective for /BLU, since attack/enfeebling magical ones will be largely useless (assuming those *do* depend on blue magic skill for effectiveness/resist).

I don't think that stacking the blunt bonus with the arcana vs. undead bonus would be considered an "abuse" any more than using Dragon Kick to close Light is (remember, a /BLU can't skillchain with it). It's a way of using the weaknesses of monsters to fight them more effectively: i.e. what everyone "should" be doing (except that it isn't always actually more effective than fighting dumb and using your strongest ws/spell regardless of resists).

[Icemage]

Re: RDM/PLD over RDM/DRK?

Hmm, they're using /BLU *against HNMs*? And maintaining hate? Interesting. I'd certainly like to see video of that. (But in an HNM situation, how does a tank get any TP in the first place? Get 2 TP for every 300 damage hit you take?)

I don't know how much, if any, hate you get from restoring MP (suddenly, that is - I know you get very little from Refresh/Ballad). But it would be interesting to study.

Tanks get TP from getting hit (2TP per) plus hitting the enemy (normal TP). Paladins also get Shield Mastery - at level 75 this gives 5TP on a successful shield block instead of the normal 2 (since remember, clubs are 1-handed weapons).

I don't know for a fact that restoring MP via Moonlight adds much enmity - but considering most PLDs use a lot of enmity gear, it shouldn't be hard to test.

I don't know about that. Not all advanced jobs are designed to be useless as sub. You might as well say "I would imagine that Utsusemi wouldn't stop all hits if your ninjutsu skill is low to prevent abuses"...

Quite possibly the answer to this is that level 40+ physical blue magics are stronger, and/or blue magics performed with Chain Affinity are stronger, so that blue mages stay better at blue magic even when they're using an inferior weapon to do it. Bludgeon with a primate staff may not stack up that well to Spinal Cleave or Hysteric Barrage with a DMG 40 sword.

I think it's quite possible that physical blue magics will be fairly effective for /BLU, since attack/enfeebling magical ones will be largely useless (assuming those *do* depend on blue magic skill for effectiveness/resist).

I don't think that stacking the blunt bonus with the arcana vs. undead bonus would be considered an "abuse" any more than using Dragon Kick to close Light is (remember, a /BLU can't skillchain with it). It's a way of using the weaknesses of monsters to fight them more effectively: i.e. what everyone "should" be doing (except that it isn't always actually more effective than fighting dumb and using your strongest ws/spell regardless of resists).

Oh I don't doubt that it would be nice. I just can't imagine S-E being happy with DRK's subbing /BLU and spamming Bludgeon in KRT parties - it's just sliiightly out of flavor for the job.


Icemage