new RDM spell

[Taskmage]

Re: new RDM spell

Regen II will be overpowering. If a RDM can solo HNMs, then I believe RDM is already balanced and strong. You do not need to add anything else to it. Not even R2.

Oh, I agree. Rdm is balanced and strong, and doesn't need to get any new spells, but SE said they were thinking about it. R2 was a spell I thought would improve the job significantly without making us even more powerful in solo and (I thought) not take away from other jobs too much.

[Aeni]

Re: new RDM spell

Oh, I agree. Rdm is balanced and strong, and doesn't need to get any new spells, but SE said they were thinking about it. R2 was a spell I thought would improve the job significantly without making us even more powerful in solo and (I thought) not take away from other jobs too much.

Maybe they want to add a "group" enhancement through RDMs. Something to that effect?

[WishMaster3K]

Re: new RDM spell

Might be nice, but if it's RDM and it's Enhancing, then it will either be protect, shell, haste, refresh or cure,

Protect, Shell and Cure, I imagine, are specific to WHMs in terms of being AOE. An AOE haste would make RDMs even more overpowered in melee pts, and an AOE Refresh, even if it was just 1 tick, would be a big time saver. It would influence more RDM + BRD support for mage heavy pts.

TM, at higher levels, this is a pt setup.

NIN + 3 other melees with /NIN or /THF + RDM/WHM + BRD/WHM

Curaga 1 after a couple of Whirl of Rages, Dia2, Refreshing ONLY myself and Hasting ONLY the NIN, in addition to BRD ballad and BRD + NIN debuffing means that we kill very fast, very nonstop.

WHMs can only fit into the equation if the pt is against Bones and it's 3MNKs RDM WHM BRD

[Jei]

Re: new RDM spell

merit on weapons are boring hands down xD
you should try one of thoe birds+sheep merit in lufaise meadows. It's a lot more interesting and fun there.
nin is still preferred here however.

[Balodoth]

Re: new RDM spell

Confuse sounds like fun. Although I imagine S-E might need to alter it such that it behaves similarly to Paralyze so that it usually attacks as normal but occasionally would attack itself instead. If Confuse would allow the monster to attack another monster, then you indirectly give RDM a BST ability.

That might be an interesting way to do teir II enfeebles. Instead of just being stronger, allow it to do something else.
Paralyze -> Confusion = Random not attack -> Random attack self
Bind -> Frighten = Stay put -> Moves away
Slow -> Pause = Actions take longer -> Stunned but then resumes (i.e. completes casting)
Dia -> ?unknown? = Defense down -> Magic defense down

[Aeni]

Re: new RDM spell

Well, here's my take on any job "upgrade" for RDM in the future.

I think we're seeing a trend among 75 RDMs that sounds a bit more like "me, me, me" and less of "us, us, us."

I see more and more soloing done, especially against unthinkables and see these success stories a lot more to the point where it becomes a "Ho Hum" situation amongst the community.

I think what SE is trying to do is put the RDMs back where they belong: in the party. In fact, it's not just RDMs, but ALL JOBS. Even BSTs (Yes, go throw your insults at me)

What we're seeing here is a fundamental change or change in paradigm in which SE wants players to contribute with each other and help each other out. No more "elitism," "isolationism" and a feeling of "superiority" over any other players. SE wants to put the MMO back into the game, something that seems to have been lacking as of late whenever I log in. I see more and more separatists and more and more people trying to isolate themselves. Dynamis has become a challenge in going in with a commando group, something which has drastically been changed from a 64-man-limit mega-outing when it was first introduced.

Basically, what it comes down to is more Teamwork and less Selfishness. If you want to be selfish, quit this game and go play your one-man RPGs on your video game console of choice. I think that's what SE is doing.

Well, either way, I just don't see any big changes for RDMs. I believe the NIN and RDM job classes will see the least amount of changes, if any, in the upcoming patch and for a few more patches into the future ...

[Taskmage]

Re: new RDM spell

Well this is another discussion entirely, so I hope it doesn't go too far, but I think all jobs should have a greater ability to solo. Working together in a group is always going to be the preferable way to fight tough monsters or do events, and it still is even with rdm at the power level they're at. But I think if everyone had a chance to succeed in a solo context with enough time, money, and skill like a rdm does, that would make the game a lot more accessible and less frustrating in general.

Of course, party balance is a greater priority.

But I think this "me, me, me" over "us, us, us" you mention has less to do with play balance and more to do with people's natural tendencies.

[Icemage]

Re: new RDM spell

Things I'd like to see RDM's get:

Slow II
Dia III
Endark
Enlight
Increased potency of Refresh based on Enhancing Magic level

- Occasional added effect from enspells:
Enwater: Poison
Enfire: Plague (-TP/tick)
Enblizzard : Paralyze
Enthunder: Stun
Enstone: Slow
Enaero: Silence
Enlight: Defense Down
Endark: Blind

Things I don't think RDM needs:

Regen II (this is particularly bad since it greatly increases the solo power of RDM)

Raise II (could be ok, but gives perks to a job that's already fantastically good at 75)

Paralyze II (normal paralyze is plenty strong enough)

Blind II (leave this to Kurayami : Ni for Ninjas)


Icemage

[kman]

Re: new RDM spell

I'm definatly for Raise 2 in fact it seems almost crucial as a merit type spell for RDM during most dynamis raids for reasons already mantioned. Balodoth's ideas are unique and intriguing, not a bad take on tier 2 enfeebles but the question comes up do they stack with tier 1? And if they don't stack why cast tier 1 ever again? Unless ofcoarse these are merited spells that take 100k of exp to get ; ) in which case they would be exclusive to only the high tier RDM. Which I can live with just fine.

[Ouija]

Re: new RDM spell

Confusion would be en exciting and fun spell to play with, the potential to see a mob attack itself or it's ally gives me a laugh, but I doubt we'd ever see Break(at least not for RDM), and I'm not even sure how Berserk might work.

wow .. what a blast that would be during "besieged"

[BurningPanther]

Re: new RDM spell

I don't see endgame RDM as being particularly selfish, we're just particularly empowered. You can't say that we're getting away from our place in the community/teamwork mindset of FFXI, since RDM was built for a number of functions, the primary of which being to tweak that loner aspect, which is symbolic of the RDM, and work it into almost any party role, so long as you have the right sub. And as we all know, RDM goes well with alot of subs, so our necessity in team play is always assured, moreso at endgame, where we can perform as pinch hitters in other roles even better, what with having the max spells/job ablilites/weaponskills available.

I don't see us getting AoE, nor do I think we should. The RDM image is that of a duelist, one who takes on an opponent one-on-one. That is how the bulk of our spelles are tailored; to cater to ourselves alone or others, one at a time. To that end, Fast Cast comes into play well, since we can't help allies en masse, we can do it one by one... very quickly. As much as I'd like to see an AoE Refresh, it just doesn't fit us.

I still have to disagree on our getting Regen 2, for the simple fact that, sure, we may be plenty strong without, but would it really cause an imbalance to give us a more efficient Regen after WHM has gotten Regen 3? I think it could only help to make parties(and fights in general) move smoother. The same goes for Raise 2, it's simply a matter of enhancing efficiency and usefulness.

If we get tier 2 enfeebles, may as well have all of them. Slow 2, Paralyze 2, Blind 2, maybe a Bind 2, Gravity 2 might be stretching it. I think Dia 3(and maybe a third Bio) are ideas whose times have come, and I'd much prefer if they canceled each other out, rather than the ascending order of cancellation on them. Leaving tier 2 enfeebles to the NIN is a prime idea... if you have a NIN in your party. Without a NIN, your team would be looking to you to hobble the mob. It'd be nice to see Blind and Flash stack, so that if a Paladin needs to pull hate(and just happens not to be subbing /WAR for Provoke), he can Flash a mob with few worries.

In the spirit of cooperation, it would also be cool to be able to cast weapon enchants on fellow party members, and adding potential status effects to the existing elemental enchantments seems very efficient, without completely overpowering it with an insane proc rate.

[Icemage]

Re: new RDM spell

You're not understanding the point of Regen II and Regen III. They are low-enmity, slightly-more-efficient ways to heal a target, at the cost of more casting time.

Since RDMs are inherently faster at casting magic, and have access to the most MP of all magicians in FFXI, giving them improved Regen spells is a recipe for disaster.

---

RDMs don't need Raise II. Sorry, but it's true. If you want to cast high level Raises... level WHM - that's one of the key spells for them. Saying RDMs deserve Raise II is like saying SMNs deserve Refresh since they spend more MP than any other mage to use their abilities.

----

Slow II is ok because it already exists in the form of Hojo: Ni. There is no Jubaku: Ni or Paralyze II because frankly, regular paralyze is already tremendously powerful. Blind II also exists in the form of Kurayami: Ni.

Incidentally, both Blind and Kurayami (both versions) are no longer overwritten by Flash (and haven't done so for a very long time).


Icemage

[Taskmage]

Re: new RDM spell

Sure, rdms don't need R2. That rdms really need anything right now would be a hard arguement to make. Mostly it would just be a great convenience to others if we had it. So long as it's added at a level that detracts from whm's desirability as little as possible, I think it's a perfectly reasonable addition to our repertoire.

I agree concerning AoE spells. It just wouldn't fit our style. Besides, AoE refresh already belongs to brd, AoE Haste, Blink and Stoneskin to smn, Protect and Shell to whm, and how often would you use AoE debuffs?

Here's another idea to toss out. Putting Enthunder on a party member would be ok, but what about Phalanx, Shock Spikes, or maybe Aquaveil?

[BurningPanther]

Re: new RDM spell

Someone who agrees. Regen 2/Raise 2 certainly aren't needed, but they would certainly be a BIG help(I tend to think we do need Regen 2, but that's just me). And if SE is gonna think up new ways to challenge the players, shouldn't everybody get a few new tools to meet the challenges?

I think it couldn't hurt at all to be able to extend some of our own defensive buffs to the rest of the party. The love for a PLDs role in a party would skyrocket were he to get the added treat of a RDM's Phalanx, with addition to Aquaveil to survive spellcasting during hits, and then hook up the fella with Ice Spikes(I'm a huge Ice Spikes fan), with it's sexy paralysis proc rate.

[Jei]

Re: new RDM spell

I see IM's point about raise 2/3 keeping whm apart from other jobs.
But having some way to back up raise when needed is really nice especialy when we do BC or missions sometimes we don't have Whm with us and Rdm really is the only person who can raise. It's really painful having to R1 level 75 friends...