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**Karinya** · 03-23-2006, 06:01 AM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

Actually, only the gloves are worthwhile for PLD (although they are VERY good - you basically wear them till AF). The pants just don't have enough defense to compare to Eisen or Centurion. Fortunately, for RDM, that's less of an issue, so they're pretty good too. The body and feet are more DD oriented (although the CHR is useful to BRD and possibly BST).

Anyway: Paralyze, Slow and Silence are MND influenced, Blind and Gravity are INT influenced. Mithra have lower MND racially, and there are more MND enfeebles than INT ones, so you may consider it more important to get +MND than +INT, unless you do a significant amount of nuking as well.

The biggest influence on enfeebling magic resists is level, followed by enfeebling magic skill (there's not much you can do about it at lower levels). If you're a level or two lower than the rest of the party, you're going to get more resists and there's nothing you can do about it, just like a lower level DD is going to miss more and there's nothing *they* can do about it. Stats have a much smaller effect on resist rates, although they also affect the size of the spell's effect (how often Paralyze goes off, how much extra delay from Slow, possibly how much acc is lost from Blind/eva from Grav although this may be unconfirmed since acc/eva is hard to test).

Mithra are actually tied for the second-highest max MP in the game (with Humes), but it's possible for anyone to have MP problems depending on the pulling pace of the party. MP problems are mainly not caused by your max MP, but by your rate of spending MP vs. rate of recovering MP. What food are you using? Cookies may help quite a bit (I wouldn't know, I went through that level range long before the food reforms.)

My guess is that if you're having significant MP problems, you're probably doing quite a bit of either nuking or healing, both of which cost noticeably more MP than enfeebling. You may need to back off on those a bit.

On the other hand, if you're the party's main (or only) healer, backing off on healing could get someone killed; in this situation you're really doing two people's jobs at once, which can be very stressful. /WHM with Divine Seal is very helpful for this situation (especially at 32, where you get Curaga); also, if there are any other mages in the party and they're not helping cure, they need to be, at least between fights. You may have to really get on the BLM's case about sitting on his full pool of MP and not helping cure - it's my impression that there are a lot of unskilled BLMs lately (it's tempting to say lazy and selfish, but maybe they just don't know any better).

At this level a 4 melee/2 mage party really doesn't work as well as 3/3, no matter what adjustments you make; especially when goblin bombs are involved. You just can't cover all the bases without the MP recovery options available at higher levels. Don't blame yourself for all the party's shortcomings. A RDM, an unhelpful BLM, a tank and three melee DDs standing around a mob feeding it TP for Goblin Bomb is a party that is doomed to mediocrity at best, and quite possibly disaster.

**Gwynn** · 03-23-2006, 07:31 AM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

You might try getting another Eremite and Saintly Ring and macroing them into your spells as necessary. Also, Devotee's Mitts will help with your White Magic enfeebles. For INT, you might try getting another Cunning Earring (if you can afford it) and a Black Silk Neckerchief. As far as I can see, though, your gear seems pretty good; you're above average at least. Next level you'll get the Black and White Capes, which might help out too.

**Aeni** · 03-23-2006, 02:42 PM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

Originally posted by Karinya

Anyway: Paralyze, Slow and Silence are MND influenced, Blind and Gravity are INT influenced. Mithra have lower MND racially, and there are more MND enfeebles than INT ones, so you may consider it more important to get +MND than +INT, unless you do a significant amount of nuking as well.

That's what I thought. The biggest kicker was when I decided I could *get away* with dropping a couple of +MND in favor of +INT since a PT grabbed me for nuking. I did not know that there was only one other mage in that 3 TankLOLPT and his enfeebling skill level was not the greatest either. Oh, don't be harsh on me. While I may have 50+ slots on my first main, I just started playing on this second main, so my inventory is around 35. If I hear any comments about why I can't just swap gear at these low levels, please send me 1.5 million gil so I can upgrade to at least 50 slots

The biggest influence on enfeebling magic resists is level, followed by enfeebling magic skill (there's not much you can do about it at lower levels). If you're a level or two lower than the rest of the party, you're going to get more resists and there's nothing you can do about it, just like a lower level DD is going to miss more and there's nothing *they* can do about it. Stats have a much smaller effect on resist rates, although they also affect the size of the spell's effect (how often Paralyze goes off, how much extra delay from Slow, possibly how much acc is lost from Blind/eva from Grav although this may be unconfirmed since acc/eva is hard to test).

Okay, this is the part that I was so interested in after you posted Karinya. I mean, this is huge stuff for a lowbie. The possibilities for MP conservation is right there and it's mind boggling, if someone knows how to get this to work consistently. Then there's my question on what is the "minimum" baseline for a Mithran RDM to function. For example, if my base MND is at 35, will I have to add a minimum of 5 MND pts in bonuses to correlate to a normal functioning RDM? People can deny it all they want, but race does seem to factor in how much money you'll end up dropping to gear yourself to be a good RDM.

Mithra are actually tied for the second-highest max MP in the game (with Humes), but it's possible for anyone to have MP problems depending on the pulling pace of the party. MP problems are mainly not caused by your max MP, but by your rate of spending MP vs. rate of recovering MP. What food are you using? Cookies may help quite a bit (I wouldn't know, I went through that level range long before the food reforms.)

I use Ginger Cookies. On WHM, I use Roast Mushrooms, provided there are 2 other mages in the party. Otherwise, it's the good old standby (Ginger Cookies) with the occasional (If I afk my first main on the side of the party) juice refresh.

My guess is that if you're having significant MP problems, you're probably doing quite a bit of either nuking or healing, both of which cost noticeably more MP than enfeebling. You may need to back off on those a bit.

It's tricky. With lag and newb players, I honestly cannot wait for someone else to cure/nuke if I can do it. That's the problem. I don't have enough "mage" experience to know whether or not I can trust the next mage beside me to do their job. =/

On the other hand, if you're the party's main (or only) healer, backing off on healing could get someone killed; in this situation you're really doing two people's jobs at once, which can be very stressful. /WHM with Divine Seal is very helpful for this situation (especially at 32, where you get Curaga); also, if there are any other mages in the party and they're not helping cure, they need to be, at least between fights. You may have to really get on the BLM's case about sitting on his full pool of MP and not helping cure - it's my impression that there are a lot of unskilled BLMs lately (it's tempting to say lazy and selfish, but maybe they just don't know any better).

At this level a 4 melee/2 mage party really doesn't work as well as 3/3, no matter what adjustments you make; especially when goblin bombs are involved. You just can't cover all the bases without the MP recovery options available at higher levels. Don't blame yourself for all the party's shortcomings. A RDM, an unhelpful BLM, a tank and three melee DDs standing around a mob feeding it TP for Goblin Bomb is a party that is doomed to mediocrity at best, and quite possibly disaster.

Well, that's the problem we were having. THF, PLD, NIN, NIN, WHM, RDM (me) in PT last night. No, I did not form this PT. Actually, I was originally suppose to replace a WHM that left the PT (Little wonder why the WHM left >.> ) so I was going to sub WHM on my RDM. That meant a trip to the nomad to swap in lots of +MND and +MP gear and possibly asking a friend to borrow that Baron HQ piece that adds to refresh while resting. However, at the last minute after I touched down in Kazham harbor, they told me that I was instead replacing the BLM (A tarutaru one >.> ) so you can see why I had to dump a couple of +MND in favor of +INT, especially when I'm close to TNL and have these other equipment pieces to upgrade with the level as well as new spells to learn. =/

**SomeMithra** · 03-23-2006, 04:35 PM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

It's tricky. With lag and newb players, I honestly cannot wait for someone else to cure/nuke if I can do it. That's the problem. I don't have enough "mage" experience to know whether or not I can trust the next mage beside me to do their job. =/

Thats one thing you just have to learn to do. Trust someone else can do their job, everyone needs help at some point, but you can't just take over what their doing. Your only one mage afterall, not three.

As far as gear goes. When I was a 30 RDM I tried my best to balance my gear, and kept that all the time. I only had my rings swap from macros. Eventually i switched to electum and stuck to those and then later I focused(still do) mostly on INT.

**Jei** · 03-23-2006, 06:43 PM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

I think you should always have a full MND gear while you are levelling up RDM. MND spells are the major spells you'll be using in party. If you want INT you can carry extra gear and macro them on when you want. But give priority to mnd. INT will come into play more and more later on, mostly out side of EXP PT.

Our enfeeble skill doesn't really stand out much until later levels imo. The big big jump in our enfeeble efficiency are A) elemental staffs and B) AF body.

**Icemage** · 03-24-2006, 01:15 AM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

You don't really see any difference between WHM and RDM enfeeble skill levels until around level 40. Prior to that, just stock up on all the MND gear you can lay hands on and swap it in for enfeebling magic.

Don't over-analyze your performance in the <51 level range. You'll level up faster than you can complete your analysis. We can talk about stat boosts and whatnot all day long, but in the end it makes very little difference in effectiveness.

Biggest friends for a RDM in the pre-40 (Convert) level range:

Juice (keeps MP up)
BRD subjob (Paeon/Madrigal are surprisingly useful in this range)

Other than that, gear means a whole lot of nothing, honestly. Best gear vs. worst gear pre-40 RDM has very little impact except psychological.

**dirtyclown** · 03-24-2006, 03:23 AM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

Originally posted by Aeni

I use Ginger Cookies. On WHM, I use Roast Mushrooms, provided there are 2 other mages in the party. Otherwise, it's the good old standby (Ginger Cookies) with the occasional (If I afk my first main on the side of the party) juice refresh.

Around 40 try Goblin Mushpots. +10 MND -50% defense. They don't stack, but they last for 3 hours and can be bought from Muckvix's shop for like 1.5k each. Unless you go completely psycho on mobs you won't be pulling any hate, so the negative to defense isn't too much of a problem. I only took my RDM to 47, but the mushpots served me very well and helped out a ton with landing enfeebles.

**Aeni** · 03-27-2006, 05:21 PM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

Originally posted by Icemage

You don't really see any difference between WHM and RDM enfeeble skill levels until around level 40. Prior to that, just stock up on all the MND gear you can lay hands on and swap it in for enfeebling magic.

Don't over-analyze your performance in the <51 level range. You'll level up faster than you can complete your analysis. We can talk about stat boosts and whatnot all day long, but in the end it makes very little difference in effectiveness.

Biggest friends for a RDM in the pre-40 (Convert) level range:

Juice (keeps MP up)
BRD subjob (Paeon/Madrigal are surprisingly useful in this range)

Other than that, gear means a whole lot of nothing, honestly. Best gear vs. worst gear pre-40 RDM has very little impact except psychological.

Icemage, you are very right. I tried to up my MND as high as possible to see how Slow worked. With capped enfeebling levels and +19 total MND bonus (I could've easily added 2 more MND points from another Saintly Ring) I still get resisted by the desert beetles (Low IT, once a low VT resisted paralyze and slow too!)

I hope that at the later levels, with other kinds of equipment and stat+ bonuses that I see better results in my enfeebling.

And yes, I let roasted mushroom wore off (Just tried to test things) and then for the next 2 hours in a PT last night, I just used ginger cookies and it actually worked out better...

**nazlfrag** · 03-27-2006, 07:29 PM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

I have recently gone through the jungle as an elvaan redmage (I am level 42 now). I was resting quite a bit, using ginger cookies, and doing equipment swaps on my saintly/ermites rings(with only 35 slots =D). If I was wanted for nuking, I'd eat melon pies and rest even more.

So with the highest mnd in the game and a +12 bonus, I was getting resisted fairly often. Just remember to cast your long-timer spells first (gravity, slow) so if they don't stick the first time, you can continue with blind/para/etc. and the recast timer should wind down, giving you a second shot.

**Icemage** · 03-27-2006, 09:24 PM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

Recasting Gravity doesn't really matter so much in XP parties. The base timer is so long (1:00) that most fights are effectively over by the time you can recast it, even factoring in Fast Cast traits. Note that I'm not saying you shouldn't try it at least once, but casting it first in an effort to get a second shot at it is, from experience, not worthwhile.

If you think your melees are going to be missing a lot, much better to sub Bard and use Sword Madrigal instead. Much more reliable, and doesn't cost MP.

Slow is absolutely the first enfeeble you should attempt (aside from Silence vs. spellcasters). Long recast, short cast time, and relatively low cost.

Icemage

**Aeni** · 04-04-2006, 03:38 AM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

Originally posted by Icemage

Recasting Gravity doesn't really matter so much in XP parties. The base timer is so long (1:00) that most fights are effectively over by the time you can recast it, even factoring in Fast Cast traits. Note that I'm not saying you shouldn't try it at least once, but casting it first in an effort to get a second shot at it is, from experience, not worthwhile.

Yepp. Most of the times, the higher ranked (veteran players) prefer low ITs and chaining out the living hell out of them. We were running Chain 5s back-to-back within mere minutes of each other last night in one party and I think I barely had enough time to cast Gravity about 3 times and only went through 4 refresh cycles in the interim.

I do notice that swapping in the rings make a lot of difference in resist rates, but it's too early to draw any conclusion since the monsters were low-IT anyway, with an occassional mid-IT thrown in.

What I've done so far is equipping electrum rings and then with macro on the enfeebling, swapping in the appropriate rings for the spells (MND or INT) I tend to like +max MP, contrary to what other players have said. If you ever put covert into your normal routine (I use it religiously now) you'll appreciate getting that +40 additional mp (enough for one refresh cast!) It also gives that illusory feel that your bottom isn't so close as you thought it would be (meaning having to hit the panic button and convert in mid-battle)

Only issue I'm having is keeping refresh cycles and being able to kneel once in a while to get some mp back in an aggressive manner. At least I was able to maintain the BLM's MP pool so that she could end fights sooner and the WHM's MP pool was hardly below 50% at the beginning of every fight. But I suffer a bit of downtime when I forget to refresh myself and sometimes just go, "to heck with it, convert is in another 1:10 and on this fight, 98 mp is more than enough for what I need to do ...

**kman** · 04-04-2006, 07:43 AM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

I missed this thread earlier, and I understand it's been largely focused on equiptment rather than the race issue but I wanted to clear some very basic thigns here regarding where mithra stand in comparison to other jobs.

At level 75 the stats are as follows.

Hume
HP: 1046
MP: 464
Str: 56
Dex: 56
Vit: 53
Agi: 53
Int: 61
Mnd: 61
Chr: 56

Elvaan
HP: 1167
MP: 388
Str: 65
Dex: 53
Vit: 58
Agi: 45
Int: 53
Mnd: 70
Chr: 56

Tarutaru
HP: 820
MP: 692
Str: 48
Dex: 56
Vit: 50
Agi: 58
Int: 75
Mnd: 58
Chr: 56

Mithra
HP: 1046
MP: 464
Str: 53
Dex: 70
Vit: 50
Agi: 62
Int: 61
Mnd: 58
Chr: 48

Galka
HP: 1318
MP: 273
Str: 61
Dex: 56
Vit: 67
Agi: 50
Int: 58
Mnd: 61
Chr: 48

What you will notice here is that hume and mithra have identical hp and mp. While RSE gear actually puts hume ahead especially the pants and the feet. Mithran rse just isn't that nice, and they get their first nice piece the belt quite late after most have attained their AF and mp is no longer such an issue.

Hume are slightly ahead on STR and VIT while mithra are considerably ahead on Dex and AGI!

As far as enfeebling goes Hume actually outdo mithra in the mind department. Granted not by much and gear can make all the difference here but they still do. Also Chr is very high for humes, elvaan, and tarutaru so those three make the most viable RDM/BST.

Fun facts
A Galkan RDM has more Vit and HP than a Hume PLD

A tarutaru RDM has more Int and MP than a Hume BLM

And the Galka's RSE is so MP heavy that they actually make superior choices to that of Elvaan since their Int and Mnd are more balanced and they in fact can get much more MP than elvaan.

**Aeni** · 04-05-2006, 01:28 PM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

I think that Galkan RDMs are pretty good overall and what kman said is true about their RSE. It actually helps to even out the imbalance a lot.

I knew what I was getting into with a Mithra race. Now, I know it's been said time and time again that race isn't an issue, but what kman said is true regardless ... if I'm 8 points in a stat behind another race, you cannot say that by end game the equipment available will nullify this because ... it won't. You forget that the equipment can be worn (outside of RSE) by the other races, so that the shortfall is still there. I think in another thread I posted that the Galkan NIN is still 8 points of AGI behind Mithra, regardless of how stacked both of them are. Not sure exactly how much 8 points of AGI will do for a NIN, but a RNG will feel that pinch >.<

**Icemage** · 04-05-2006, 02:36 PM

Re: Mithran RDM FTW?

If you focus on your strengths and emphasize them, then other races cannot catch up no matter what they wear. For instance, Taru mages who go all out on MP will always have more MP than non-Taru mages with the best MP gear. Galka tanks who go for all HP gear will have more HP than non-Galka tanks with the best HP gear. Same goes for Elvaan with MND, Mithra with DEX and AGI, etc.

With that said, there's really no need to obsess over every single stat point, and focusing on a small set of stats to the detriment of other useful stats usually makes you less effective overall, not more. In a perfect world where everyone has every merit point available to spend and access to all available gear and makes wise decisions, there's not much difference between races, since chances are you're going to choose gear which helps your configuration most, and things "tend" to even out overall if you try to patch up your weaknesses in stats that your job needs.

For example, a Mithra RDM would need to boost moderately boost MP, MND, and INT, while a Galka RDM would probably choose to emphasize MP more than any other stat. Taru RDMs barely even need +MP gear - for them, +HP trickles onto the list to match their +MP, and they have a heavier emphasis on MND than INT. In the end, to produce a flexible and balanced character, assuming equally good gear and merits, you're probably going to end up being pretty close to even all around regardless of what race you choose.

Note that this holds true more for mages than for melees, who have fewer critical stats (STR, Accuracy, Critical hit rate, with some nods to specific stats for specific jobs, such as MND for monks or AGI for rangers).

Icemage

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Mithran RDM FTW?

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