Hate on resisted enfeebles?

[Armando]

Hey there. Right now I'm level 52 PLD, and the higher up I go, the more /RDM has to offer me. Magic Defense Bonus, Fast Cast, Magic Attack Bonus, Enspells, Elemental Spikes, Barspells, Dia/Bio, Stoneskin, and Phalanx are all very appealing and useful for soloing/duoing or simply situations where I need endurance. Of course, there's also Sneak/Invis, which'll give me some independence when doing coffer runs and the likes. The problem is, this sub has a heavy price - lack of Provoke. There's situations where I'm subbing WHM for these very reasons, and a friend's in a bind, but I don't have a reliable way of drawing the mob's attention.

Sleep's a pretty high-hate spell as far as I can tell. Now, I don't have an enfeebling skill at all, and being an Elvaan PLD, INT is definetely my worst stat, so there's no way I'm getting Sleep to actually stick. I know any action I do towards the mob will get hate, and that a resisted spell will still give me some hate. My question is, does a fully resisted enfeeble get less hate? I know the answer is probably going to be "yes," so here's the follow-up: How much less hate does it get compared to an unresisted enfeeble?

Thanks in advance!

[neighbortaru]

Re: Hate on resisted enfeebles?

i can't really tell you as i've never actively looked to draw hate with my RDM
however, the hate from most enfeebles seem to wear off relatively quickly, i.e. one swipe from the mob.

[Deneb]

Re: Hate on resisted enfeebles?

Sleep does cause considerable hate, there have been a few times where the ninja or paladin dropped and a sleep + sleep 2 was enough to secure aggro on me (oh and bind really pisses them off as well), then again neither spell was resisted so it is difficult to say. I don't imagine its a very effective way to tank however given that both spells have fairly lengthy cooldowns.

Edited to include that part about bind.

[Alauna]

Re: Hate on resisted enfeebles?

Here's a tip from a RDM:

When i'm Duo/Trio/killing with other people and need to get hate, i spam spells like Sleep, Sleep II, Bind, and Blind. These generally piss off the mob quite a bit.

now, as a PLD, you have your own set of "tools" per se. Flash, Shield Bash, Sentinal, Rampart, Holy, and such. You're going to get far less hate spamming enfeebles, than your stuff.

[LadyPeorth]

Re: Hate on resisted enfeebles?

Sleep and Bind grab a huge amount of hate, even if resisted. I've seen a RDM/NIN tank Fafnir by spamming Sleep spells, Bind, and various other enfeebles.

Ninjas rely on the enfeebles to draw hate, so you could say it's a decent amount.

[Armando]

Re: Hate on resisted enfeebles?

Thanks for the replies ^^ I'm not really looking to fall back on Sleep and Bind (thanks for the tip, by the way) but I do like to keep my options open so I can pick the right hate tool for the situation. While we're on the subject are there any other enfeebles that get more than minimal hate? Or, if you could tell me which enfeebles don't give much hate that'd be equally good (since I'd know to avoid them.) Please forgive me, but it's been over 6 months since I last touched my BLM for EXP, and I still haven't levelled RDM

[Deneb]

Re: Hate on resisted enfeebles?

The 4 or 5 that have been mentioned give the biggest hate jolt. Any sleep spell, Sleep, Sleep II, Sleepga, etc. Bind and blind also give a pretty good chuck, and if all else fails cast your highest level cure on yourself (or others) a few times, not practical but that will piss the mob off as well.

[Armando]

Re: Hate on resisted enfeebles?

Alright, thanks a bunch!

[Khidir]

Re: Hate on resisted enfeebles?

Have you ever chainspelled nuked? It creates a lot of hate even if most of them are resisted that may help. So i guess spamming weak nuke spells over and over help. Also dispel creates some nice hate as well

[Aeni]

Re: Hate on resisted enfeebles?

How much less hate does it get compared to an unresisted enfeeble?

Thanks in advance!

In my opinion, resist has nothing to do with enmity. Once casted, your enmity totals are already calculated.

Some of the most wonderful things that came out of me not leveling my main job, but instead go tooling around a lot with many many mage job players and a lot of times, with no main tank, gave me a lot of experience in this situation.

I've observed how a RDM can pull hate off of me even if her sleep lands on a shadowed Yag ninja if I just swung only once at it. When you observe the monster's movement (attention) at every single player interaction within the party, you start to get a feel for the flow of the fight. This is how I skilled up on steelshells in BT with a nin/rng and a rdm/whm once. I noticed that a spam casting RDM can really hold hate very well.

As a PLD/RDM, you can focus on three things to help hold hate:

* Damage mitigation through hp restoration
* Damage mitigation through self buffs
* Attention attraction through job abilities

On the first point, you can also heal other members of the PT to build up enmity. Again, every cast builds enmity, the effects of resists on enfeebling will not matter. The quantitative effects from restoration spells and offensive spells (aka nuking) will exhibit a greater difference in enmity when resist is factored in, but not so with enfeebling.

[Aeni]

Re: Hate on resisted enfeebles?

I want to add to this with my own experience.

It seems that the "act" of casting alone creates a lot of enmity. Remember, elementals aggro magic casted (If they con at least "aggro" EP I believe) but they can aggro w/o the spell being "completely" casted. For example, I could start casting something and then interrupting it, but that alone will aggro anything that aggros to magic.

So, I thought, hey, maybe this is true with enmity.

Perfect way to have this observed was in my party last night. Anyway, we're in CN, fighting Helm Beetles, Knight Crawlers and Hunters (Scorpions)

Incidentally, if anyone was in a party near us, I apologize in advance, but I did try to persuade the all-JP party that camping on some other party was a bad idea >_< But they saw it was a EU party and thought it was okay. >_> No, it's not okay, but I couldn't do anything about it.

The NIN was a decent tank, but didn't "wow" me with any abilities to hold hate. For the most part, this NIN had issues holding hate against the WAR/NIN and DRK/WAR. However, the NIN wasn't casting jutsus as much either and is probably the main reason why hate was just wafer thin.

This then allowed me to explore just how much enmity spellcasting can cause.

In one fight against a Knight Crawler, the WAR had to voke the crab just to keep the PLD from the other party from claiming (Yes, between us two parties, there were NOT ENOUGH monsters and there were times when both parties sat around for as long as 5 minutes waiting for a repop) So the NIN then had to steal hate back from the WAR. In this situation, I believe I saw that both of them at this point had near equal amounts of hate (Weapons were not drawn yet)

I started to cast Paralyze on the WAR and about 1/3 of the way, HELLO, the crawler hits me and interrupts my cast.

Seriously, I didn't do anything else at this point.

Later on, I had to leave, told the JP leader nicely that I was @ 30 fun/pun (minutes) and I was prepared to ask this RDM on seek to replace me. Leader acknowledged this (But I didn't find out my replacement was another NIN)

Anyway, the replacement came (I wasn't paying attention to the party chat between the WAR and the leader, a BLM) and apparently died somewhere near the Rumble Crawler spot. They came back but the BLM's invis wore and of course 2 Helms are on his backside really fast. I cast Sleep II on one, but the WHM Dias that >_> and the DRK already put a Bio II in the other.

The next 10 minutes saw the most craziest thing I've ever seen in a while. We had to juggle with 3 Helms (Yes ... 3) and the BLM was unwilling to cast escape. By this point, the other party had left, but I don't think the leader knew this... escaping out was admitting that you didn't want the camp anymore (Whether or not it was gained legitimately is for another story)

The replacement (At this point I found out was another NIN) tanked the 3rd Helm that linked with raise weakness just worn off. Amazingly enough, this NIN managed to tank the Helm and stayed alive for 5 minutes with only ~90 hp >_>

I cure III eventually, 2 minutes in and I was worried that the NIN would eat it. Of course, this caused the Helm to produce tremendous amounts of pain on myself. I saved the BLM in the nick of time with a Cure IV (Only had 2 hp left) and of course, the other Helms weren't happy about this.

Two things happened:

Over the next 2 minutes (5 minutes had elapsed to this point) I had gotten the Dia'd Helm under Sleep II management. I was on this one's hate list pretty high up. The WAR kept voking off during the 1 minute long sleep. The other Helm wasn't happy about my saving the BLM either, so I was already up on that list. The 3rd Helm being toyed around by the just-raised NIN would hit me every 4 or so melee cycles ... >_>

Whenever I casted a Cure III 1/2, two Helms made a beeline for me. Cure III never landed yet and I got massive hate.

Even trying to do something like Dispel perked up the Helm that the replacement NIN was tanking. I have no idea why, but apparently this only feeds into my suspicion that spell casting does generate hate.

Of course, eventually we kill all 3 Helms and I made sure everyone that could be refreshed in that party got it before I warped to bed. It was so crazy, I was biting my nails when I converted 6 minutes in and ran around with 33 hp and too scared to cast Stoneskin >_>