RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

[JeanRC]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

99% of Low-level players suck.
That is all.

90% of the Lv50+ suck
85% of the Lv75 suck ^^

Seriously i dont know why people just cant do what they need to do well ;p
whm casting banish often, rdm not refreshing for whole battle,blm who only nuke and did nothing else. melee who after attacking go afk during battle and when mob move they are standing there hitting air,tank who dont voke fast enough at start or when mob go towards mages and still able to let mob hit mage 2 times.
I cant understand what they are doing ;p

Does it all boil down to skill? maybe brain or lazyness

[Kagerou]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

I don't really understand. 99% of this game is not being retarded.

[Gwynn]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

Honestly, I didn't have too much of that. True, there were a few instances where I've had to pick up the slack of a WHM or BLM, but I guess I just didn't care.

[Aeni]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

Hey forster, I've been in the same boat with you before. Leveling RDM, BLM and WHM ... it's the same regardless of what I touched. Whenever I'm in the group as a WHM, the RDM and BLM starts slacking off and I end up taking care of enfeebling and DOT ... when I play as BLM, I end up being enfeebler as well as main healer ... when I play as RDM, I might as well be the only mage in the party, because it sure feels like that sometimes ...

Maybe it's no wonder I have to go on /anon all the time to ward off JP invites lolorz.

[forster]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

Well, I guess Ill just see how it goes.

I purposefully started a WAR yesterday to see what the game is like from the other side of the fence, it's a shame that there are slackers, but it appears from other threads that they are in every single class in the game.

Thanks for your support folks, good to know Im not alone (as well as a little sad).

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

Hi. I'm a White Mage... /duck... /em dodges tomatoes...

I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I get complacent. I'm tired, distracted, etc. It happens to the best of us, and usually one poke is all it takes to let me know I'm out of line and neglecting my job. Grab some caffine, get my head on straight, back in the game. I suppose this is to be expected from everyone. Some days, we're just... not in it. It happens.

Now, that said, I've also noticed the same thing, as well as the other side of the coin. I've seen parties next to mine where -every- time I look the WHM is on thier bum. Its one thing to be getting up and sitting down. But that's what I expect to see. Up down, up down. Its part of the MP conservation. Yet I do see parties with WHM on thier bums every other battle, and RDM's who are expected to convert every 5min (never mind the timer length! You should do it every five min!).

I guess I had it lucky. My duo partner for the first year of the game was a RDM, so while I don't play RDM, I've seen it consistantly.

And let me say straight out I -HATE- white mages that neglect thier jobs. If you have enough MP to keep the party alive, and be ready for the next battle, then you have enough MP. Period. You should -DO- something to help.

My parties usually go something like this. "Who Is Main Tank?" Alright. Haste them before every battle. I don't even give the RDM the option of hasting the tank. That's my job. Next, start battle. I don't enfeeb, I don't magic burst. I just haste the tank and cure to get a feel for how MP intenseive that party is based on everyone's play style. Go me.

Now as the party progresses, I almost always have extra MP, so I send /tell to the RDM, "Slow down on cures; don't help unless they low orange, and try not to cast bigger than me." It doesn't do much, honestly, but it does let the RDM know that hey, I'm paying attention, feel free to slack on the back up a little so I can pick up my pace a little.

Then I look at the haste cycle. -Usually- the RDM is hasting + refreshing. OMG! No shit, you guys are insane to keep that BS up. I wouldn't tollerate it. Anyhow, the point is the party is usually going fairly well at this point, and I have a feel of where I can fit in more Haste. So I start adding the melee into the haste cycle. Yes, this means RDM have to pick up a few additional cures but most keep casting the smaller cures like I asked before, which is perfect for me, and perfect for the RDM. Plus it significantly decreases the strain on RDM.

A White Mage picking up the whole haste cycle, IMHO, is usually a turning point for the party dynamics. Yes, I have a shit ton to do. So does the RDM, but at least its a little more balanced and things flow nicer all around. I make less mistakes by doing more because I have a -constant- patern to maintain now, not just intermitant stuff, and the RDM make less mistake cause they don't have too much to do.

IMHO, any white mage who doesn't go out of thier way like this is a lazy ass, and I'm right there with you guys when it comes to slapage. I don't mind if I spoil my name. I don't need other WHM doing it for me. XD

NOW.... the other side of the coin. As a White Mage, I main heal. Duh. And especially at higher levels, after playing it for so long, and -not- having a multi-role job, I honestly believe that any average player will have a better grasp on healing subtleties than an average RDM will. Likewise, a great WHM will have a better graps than a great RDM, simply because they have more experience.

My pet peve (related to the lazy WHM) are the RDM that expect to do so much, that they do it without realizing they bring it on themselves. I actually -play- this game. My MP, the RDM's MP, the BLM's MP, the SMN's MP... everyone's health... How fast the mob hits, what type of tank, how well the tank takes a hit, if its AoE, WS, etc., etc. I really honestly do consider all of this when I heal.

Now, when that NIN is borderline yellowy cause of a WS, there's a decent chance depending on circumstance that I won't heal. The mob just used a WS, it's TP is low, shadows are back up. I have a tick or two to rest before I stand up and cure that nin. But invariably, I stand up and start casting Cure III so I can follow it with a Regen II, and low and behold, that RDM casts cure IV.

Nothing a White Mage hates more than waisting a Cure III except maybe wasiting a Cure IV.

I guess its a fine line (sometimes) between complacency and smart playing. A lot of times, great players walk that line. Point then? Down with the lazy white mages! But keep in mind sometimes you guys (RDM as a whole) jump the gun with the Overtaxed card simply because you are expecting to be over taxed.

The way I see it, WHM should go out of thier way to help the RDM instead of bask in the refresh cycle.

[Last_Viper]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

@evenpointflaw
your tarutaru looks very tired?? did he get enough sleep?

i like your way playing whm

i mostly haste the tank too (mostly because nin yes, pld no)

haste is a long timer to cast, so if whm casting it and tank gets hit alot, it`s time to panic ^^


@OP
yeah i think everyone knows this situation. we have the role that we can do a bit of all + things only we can do.
so we helping out.. sometimes i see i´m hasting the blm or refreshing the nin, thats my time where i need a break =)
i don`t cast much elementar spells, my skill is cap though, but i try to get the MB and sometimes`i do the big killer nuke lol
whm job, only cure. i go most of my times as rdm/blm. so no erase or /na spells.

[Karinya]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

Generally when I party with my RDM, I ask the WHM who he wants me to haste. My view is that haste is primarly the WHM's responsibility (that's why they get it at a lower level than any other job), but that I'm willing to help out with it. Usually I end up hasting a DD or two, refreshing 3-4 people, enfeebling and MB, but only curing in emergencies (the whm usually has plenty of mp to handle the majority of damage taken).

A WHM can recover MP faster than I can (more clear mind trait, more time to rest) and has Cure V and +cure potency gear, it just doesn't make sense to try to take over cures from them. But my Haste is just as good as theirs and takes me less time to cast, so that's where I go first if it looks like the WHM needs help. If I cure at the same time as a WHM, or a PLD, and it results in overhealing, I generally consider that my mistake - "helping" them when they don't need it isn't very helpful. (Especially for the PLD, who was probably relying on that cure to build hate... as a PLD myself, I know how frustrating that is.)

If I expect a lot of damage or hostile status effects, I'll sub WHM to help out more, but otherwise I generally sub BLM for conserve mp.

On the other hand, with a SMN, a lot of this reverses. SMN can't haste and their cures are smaller and less efficient than mine, so I expect to be the main haster and healer with the SMN throwing some small cures (the only kind they have), na spells and maybe curaga between fights. This usually means I'm MBing less and not doing the occasional "die now so we can get #5!" nuke, but the SMN's other abilities generally make up for it. Also, of course, I have to protect the tank and puller; depending on the mob it's usually fine to let a lower tier protectra/shellra cover everyone else. SMN+RDM is a great team but it works very differently from WHM+RDM.

As for BLMs - they *should* be ready to help out the party with whatever is needed at a given time, but a lot of them aren't. Too many just don't have the right mental attitude to see where and when they can (should) be helping. Between-battle cures have 0 hate - but I see BLM with tons of extra MP that wait for the already-low WHM, RDM or SMN to cure people up (while they sit), then wonder why we're not pulling faster. Not all BLMs are like that, but a lot are.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

Usually I end up hasting a DD or two, refreshing 3-4 people, enfeebling and MB, but only curing in emergencies (the whm usually has plenty of mp to handle the majority of damage taken).

Ditto. This is pretty much how I work in an average pt too.

As for BLMs - they *should* be ready to help out the party with whatever is needed at a given time, but a lot of them aren't. Too many just don't have the right mental attitude to see where and when they can (should) be helping. Between-battle cures have 0 hate - but I see BLM with tons of extra MP that wait for the already-low WHM, RDM or SMN to cure people up (while they sit), then wonder why we're not pulling faster. Not all BLMs are like that, but a lot are.

Yes, this is quite common. When I'm on my whm, I've seen some blms act like they have /war sub. Cure? Whats that? Boom down goes a pt member. I'm glad that I'm not like that on my blm. I use regen more than anything though. Even simple regen can work wonders on a DD that is only down a smidge in hp. Of course, you always hope the main healer is observant and doesn't waste mp curing them after you cast it. LOL

I have whm, blm, and rdm all lvled and its funny how much you can see from each job angle. I know on my rdm what my role is and I communicate to the whm anything that will overlap with what they may be doing. I also know when to not pick up the slack unless its going to threaten the flow of the pt. If that happens, I /t the leader and tell him/her they need to communicate to the whm that they need to apply themselves in that area. If the leader won't or doesn't do it, then I'll /t the whm and try to gently communicate this to them. The whm is responsible for the tank...period. They haste them, cure them, buff them, and erase or use -na spells on them. The only time I ever do anything for the tank is if the whm has no mp or if they are in the red and need an emergency cure. Rdm's are not an endless fountain of mp, it can run out. I find people that have played multiple jobs to a high lvl are more aware of the limitations and more tolerant.

[Aeni]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

Yes, this is quite common. When I'm on my whm, I've seen some blms act like they have /war sub. Cure? Whats that? Boom down goes a pt member. I'm glad that I'm not like that on my blm. I use regen more than anything though. Even simple regen can work wonders on a DD that is only down a smidge in hp. Of course, you always hope the main healer is observant and doesn't waste mp curing them after you cast it. LOL

I once main healed a PT on Qufim as ... BLM/WHM. Do I get a cookie?

[Gman]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

I once main healed a PT on Qufim as ... BLM/WHM. Do I get a cookie?

I main healed a PT in Gustav as blm/whm (lvl 38-39 ish) with Bomb tosses and cursed spheres... if you get a cookie, I get the whole bag ^^

Of course, there was a WHM in the party, but they were completely useless. No barfira, no curagas, let tanks get to less than 100 HP before curing, etc.

[silentsteel]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

o.O I'm not even close to that bad on my down days. . . wow, if some people are gonna play, expect to work if you want something.

[nazlfrag]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

Easy soluytion to lazy mages - go sit next to them. When the tank stops getting cured, everyone will look at the whm, not you. When the nukes stop flying, they will look to the blm.

[forster]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

That's just the problem tho, in my humble opinion the tank should never stop being cured to some degree - Id rather do the curing job and let the nukes slide if im in a lazy party, rather than letting someone die to prove a point. Its not worth it.

The better parties I have been in since making this thread have really picked up the slack of the slowing of XP in the worse ones.

Im probably going to start the physical classes a bit more for the rest of the month, the MNK / WAR / PLD / DRK combo and see how it goes.

Thanks for your constructive replies folks, I dont feel so irked about it now.

[Aeni]

Re: RDM in Group = Lazy BLM & WHM

That's just the problem tho, in my humble opinion the tank should never stop being cured to some degree - Id rather do the curing job and let the nukes slide if im in a lazy party, rather than letting someone die to prove a point. Its not worth it.

Same here. I'm sorry, but I will not make party tank, who's probably doing a service and performing it valiantly taking the beat downs for the whole party, lose exp and waste his time just to keep dying to prove some "mythical" point in order to address a "community" issue, which may or may not interest the particular members of the PT that I am currently in.