weapon of choice for RDM

[Armando]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

Fish,and Crabs are defensive type mobs that gain magical resistant traits and abilities. These will reduce the damage of enspell and nukes pretty cleanly, dispite the element used. And by the time you hit crawlers for exp, that damage curve I was telling you about comes into effect, as defensive mobs seem to gain more defence traits at that level.

That's very interesting. I was under the impression crabs only got Defense Bonus, since they were PLDs. I'll definetely keep this in mind.

The party conisted of RDM BLM WHM RNG WAR/NIN SAM/WAR, against mandys. The War/Nin did use acid bolts, and the rdm always lead with dia, to answer your question both effects were consistantly in place. (I think the blm used frost and shock, I'm not sure) My figures were based off of both weapons facing a defence down and dia effect. (Thanks for reminding me). However I also stressed these numbers that the Elvaan used Pies and Mage gear, instead of what could have been more melee oriented gear, or even gear swaps.

Well, this certainly explains a lot. Dia (I) is about an 8% Defense reduction, Acid Bolts are 12% Defense down...the mob had a total of Defense -20%, that's almost as if the RDM had Berserk. No ammount of STR will reproduce numbers like those

Right, but the rdm is more common to be poorly equipped in this early stage than blm.

The damage cut is based off personal expirence. I was rather upset trying to nuke on even grounds with a blm at those levels, even with full mage gear. I havent confirmed this myself but I beleive that BLM as a Magic Attack trait above us even at that low level.

The RDM is then equally unlikely to be equipped (and prepared...you should have capped skill before attempting to melee) to melee.

I guess it basically comes down to the RDM's equipment and the support of the party. In your party, the RDM was able to do decent meleeing numbers because the party debuffed the Mandy with two Defense Down effects. I'm sure this could also be done with a BRD helping the RDM with Attack up. If the RDM has some STR gear on him his numbers will go up a little bit more, too. Of course, if the mob's INT is reduced (BLM debuffs) or a BRD is using Threnodies and the RDM has Ballad, and the RDM is properly equipped with INT, then the RDM shouldn't have any problem landing consistent Blizzards for 70 (or so I think.) Of course, convincing a party to help a RDM melee is easier said than done. A newbie probably wouldn't be able to melee efficiently, but then again, a newbie probably won't have enough INT to nuke well anyways.

Thanks for the input. It may be very situational but I've changed my mind on RDM meleeing at low levels if the RDM knows what he's doing. However, like I said, the RDM would definetely have to show me he's capable, and the mob would have to be debuffed with Defense Down for me to consider it. It's a new idea though, I may just give it a try when I level RDM. We totally hijacked the thread though

[Icemage]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

RDM melee reasonably well up until around level 33-35 or so. After that, available weaponry and lagging weapon skill levels start to drop your damage output against XP-worthy enemies down towards 0.

As far as fish and crabs, the only thing I recall either type of enemy having as far as special resistances is a Resist Sleep trait; magic damage hits them just fine as long as you aren't using Water-based magic, and they're nominally weak to ice and lightning. Crabs do have Bubble Shield, which halves all magic damage against them, but the only abilities fish have are Evasion Up and Defense Up as far as I can recall.

IT++ enemies, however, always have leg up on you when you try to hurt them, and it's common to see 1/4 resists even on the right elements. This is true for nukes, and doubly so for enspell damage, which seems to suffer much more from level differences than nukes (which are assisted by Elemental Magic skill).


Icemage

[Hyrist]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

I've been trying to determine what facotor on the account of the monster creates enspell resistance.

We know that the damage on enspells is dependant on Enhansing Skill, and that Neither MND or INT seem to hold a substantial effect on the account of the RDM (Though I have seen no confirming research on this, just hear-say) So I beleive this to be on the account of the monster's mnd. Perhaps we can find ways to verify this in soloing?

[Karinya]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

Well, if you think it's the monster's MND, sub BLM and cast Shock. I'd be interested to see if you observe a significant difference.

The reasons RDM nukes do less than BLM nukes (typically) on the same spell:
1. Although both have magic attack bonus, BLM has more of it. It comes in multiple levels.
2. BLM has higher base INT.
3. A BLM will typically prioritize INT very heavily in gear and food selection; a RDM will balance it against MND and maybe other stats as well.
4. Since BLM have higher elemental magic skill, they get resisted less often at the same level.
5. At higher levels, BLM have more access to magic attack bonus, elemental magic skill, and INT gear that RDM can't use.

On top of that, of course, BLM aren't limited to casting the same spells as RDM - they get bigger spells faster, and -ga spells which are MUCH bigger at the same level.

P.S. Fish are not a defensive type mob; although they have some defensive buffs, their base stats are quite offense oriented. Maybe you meant to say crabs and beetles?

[Hyrist]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

Well, if you think it's the monster's MND, sub BLM and cast Shock. I'd be interested to see if you observe a significant difference.

I think most rdms would have noticed a differnce in the resistance rate if it was a matter of the amount of MND reduced by shock... I was thinking more of the lines of getting the help of a DRK and BLM to stack elemental debuffs with drain effects on VTs-ITs to see if there is any reistance difference. A more signifigant loss of a stat will show more results, hopefully.

[Enialas]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

<snip>
Spending the money on Pies instead of just cookies, also helps this as it adds not only to the MP resting, but to the MP pool and potancy of spells as well, creating more of a leeway for an inteligent RDM to melee in.
<snip>

are they a new player rdm or one that's been playing awhile that decided to try out rdm?

the pies that give mp+ and hmp+ go upwards of 40k a stack to 40k a pop because that requires +1 pies. however sweet rice cakes being against the norm give mp+ hmp+ +5 resist silence and evasion

unless they changed nq apple/melon/rolanberry pies they don't give hmp. at a time that you're trying to be a warrior mage, encouraged by en- spells that you start getting at level 16, six spells that you get every 2-3 levels, ending somewhere between 28 and 34.

why would a new player even consider standing on the back lines with a wand when they know Enthunder is comming and they just got this new sword for rdms? after all oldschool rdms have a sword! (also has a cape too but all AF is 5+1 pieces but i wear a red cape anyways. ~.^) heck they may be even eating mithkabobs. in the right gear a rdm/war can back up tank and even pull hate from the tank. I know this because i did in my formative "years" took war to 18, switched to rdm/war. I main healed in Qufim Island and was only mage in party. when i hit 23 the person's account i was borrowing got thier pc fixed so i had to restart on my own, did things a little differently but still couldn't afford +1 foods because I was trying to get all +1 mage gear.

unlike others, after 1 goblin bomb, (and having to main heal) i decided that i'd be better off in a "mage/backline" capacity against mobs with AoE so I was wisened to the eventual full mage role earlier than most new rdm players, though even the strat guide has recommendations with melee. "you must decide early wether you want to be a melee rdm or magic only rdm"

if the rdms weapon does 0 damage leaving En-spells doing damage (mob gets no TPs this way) and if it's a mob that doesn't AoE and the rdm can do thier job effectively. I couldn't case less if they melee, neither do most people i've pt'ed with when I ask if they mind if I melee.

Post refresh and haste though this happens quite a bit less and when I do, I spend 90% of the mobs life standing next to it casting, total pain in the butt if i'm in a skill up pt trying to skill up my sword skill. rdm main healing in a skill up party when trying to skill a melee weapon = {fun} & {excitement} >.> in these cases the only person i haste is myself!

[Cyborg]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

in my experances as a 60 rdm <the magic attack earring is a nice thing to do but most rdm's i know <includinig my self only do refresh/dispel/haste/ and nuke on MB lol>

with this earrring i get more then 310+ on a blizzard 2 for a rdm hume lol thats pretty nice <i have most INT gear and i use ice staff lol>

well thats what i have add on if you like

[Enialas]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

in my experances as a 60 rdm <the magic attack earring is a nice thing to do but most rdm's i know <includinig my self only do refresh/dispel/haste/ and nuke on MB lol>

with this earrring i get more then 310+ on a blizzard 2 for a rdm hume lol thats pretty nice <i have most INT gear and i use ice staff lol>

well thats what i have add on if you like

you don't enfeble? rdm has the best enfeble rate of all jobs. use mnd plus for white magic enfebles and int for Black Magic enfebles

1 paralyze activation, 8 mp can save the healer a Cure III of Cure IV or even a Curaga III, leaving them with mp to throw a Cure V on you after you Convert ~.^

Goblin Fascinator starts Casting Firaga III.
Goblin Fascinator is Paralyzed.

or Silence? throwing silence on a mob stops thier ability to cast spells, ninjitsu, summoning and bardic music. very handy and if they just start casting a long spell when they get silenced, they will not do anything thru out the entire casting time

Slow? 5 less attacks in a minute long fight is as if Paralyze activated 5 times.

Blind? missed attacks, Flash only lasts for a couple of seconds. Blind can last entire Fight

Bio or Dia? Less powerful attacks against tank or more damage to mob from everyone engaged in melee, save mp or kill stuff faster

Gravity? Lowers Target's evasion (it gets hit more and therefore die faster) and keeps it from making it to back line before anyone can realize what happened if tank looses hate.

but back on topic:

for weapons:
xp parties:
all levels: +1, ie White Border INT+ and MND+ wands. if you plan on getting any of the other kinds, many of which are situational, plan on macroing them out. like for example a wand gives +5 MP, once you've used those 5 mp this particular feature is worthless till you need to swap it back on to get those 5mp when you're at max mps

these int+ & mnd+ wands, under "clubs" weapon catagory run pretty cheap.

swords are definately ok lower levels but don't melee things with AoEs, Bombs, Sleepga, Slowga etc.

when you hit 40, it's best to disengage and withdraw before you convert, stay hits, even a crabs AoE which is normally negligable, that 5 damage you get just might kill you, also the resulting cure you cast after you Convert grabs a lot of hate if you're too close.

post refresh, depending on party's configuation, you'll either be frustrated you could only swing once in an entire fight or you'll be a DoT between your Elemental attacks. if you're still meleeing at this point, use a low delay and low damage weapon that you'll deal 0 damage per attack (so mob gets 0 tp) and rely on your En-spells to do damage.

Only melee if it does not impede your ablities as a rdm. do not melee in Mana Burn parties. between weapon swap, (you are casting with that wand equipped right?) you'll never get 100% TP, you'll never participate in an SC, and if by some chance and luck you actually do aquire the TPs, if you're not paying attention and screw up an SC everyone will be upset with you or forgive you because it'll only happen that once all day long.

at 51 melee will no longer be a thought in xp pt situations barring any unusual circmstance, if you were even meleeing after 40 or 25 when the only option was Goblins, (AoE) or Mandys (AoE) so no meleeing there.

[Jei]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

Just my choice of playing. Every since I started joining PT right at lvl 11, my Rdm had always play a black line casting role. Rdm's magic usefulness comes a lot earlier than you think. When I invite Rdm into my PT at lvl 14-30, I invite them for cure 2. Debuff are a plus.

The idea about shifting from melee to mage after you learn a certain spells, while they do work, not all players (especially new ones) can suddenly shift their role like that. You see Rdm not healing, missing their debuff, not paying attension to refresh etc etc all these could easily be avoided if those Rdm play the caster role earlier and get used to it. Meleeing from 1-30 will not get any Rdm ready for their role to come.

Some people told me, medicore Rdm before 50 can be forgiven because they are still *new* to refresh. I understand, but I must say it is frustrating as hell when the rest of the PT can perform so well and have to suffer 1 bad Rdm.

[bikkebakke]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

I would have to agree with Jei. I think RDM should stop meleeing as soon as they are in a party role. They need to learn to play as support/debuffer as soon as possible.

[Balodoth]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

Jei has a point. I really love DRG/BRD. I mean it's totally awesome! But I'm not using that sub in a party.

Not that there's a few times I think it would have been a useful choice, but I know I didn't make a mistake by subbing WAR or THF. Likewise, even RDM who stick to casting would like to melee once in a while, but at least you know for a fact that you are doing a great job by focusing on casting.

[Lmnop]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

A bright fella of a RDM once said that a good RDM will take time off from leveling to solo. You really understand how powerful your debuffs are and how much you need refresh to thrive for extended battles when it's your own exp on the line. No one else there to pick up your slack. My brother does a lot of soloing with his RDM, he's found out a lot about balance. He learned very quickly that maximizing his stats maximized survival, and that equip macros maximize stats. Which reminds me, couple things that I thought about while reading this evolved thread:
(I should tell you, I'm the melee of the family, my sister is the mage, and my brother is in between. My brother and I are min/maxers, munchkins, whatever derogatory comments geeks use these days. All that said....)

1) while leveling with my brother's whm, we always laughed about his Banish doing 90ish damage while the BLMs used their best nuke to hit for 80. It took an MB for them to outdo his Banish. I just thought that was funny and wanted to share it...

2) but back to his RDM, he's in the 40s range now and has been experimenting with /drk a lot. This is convenient since between 40 and 50, /drk gives aspir while /blm does not. Of course, we all know this is also his excuse to test out his melee prowess. Icemage mentioned before that the reason his rdm/brd functioned so well was because his stats were meritted and his gear was above most players of his level. My brother lacks merits, but his gear is exceptional. It's good enough that he's been keeping a sword equipped full time, and in a quick-pull party, he doesn't get to rest away all the tp he gets. I'm not saying melee is always good but if you can completely debuff mob, keep everyone refreshed, be ready with cures (<stpc> really helps here), and hit MBs, then you can melee. And so we find that the RDMs who understand the game the least keep meleeing when it's the RDMs who have the best understanding that can get away with it (his stats just wouldn't be good enough w/out a MND/INT/Melee set to be swapping between).

Btw, 200 seems to be his average Red Lotus Blade as of 45ish. I think that's respectable as all the war/nins at that level are using Raging Axe for 100-150 and do the "OMFGs" when they crit a hit for 250 or whatever. Of course, they could be subbing thf and doing 400+ dmg SA Sturmwinds but that's not what this thread's about.

[mpa]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

If anyone still cares, I believe that for non-SAM's each point of Subtle Blow lessens the TP you give the mob by 0.1 TP per hit, and each point of Store TP gives you 0.1 more TP per hit.

[aegina]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

with response to what someone said earlier, yes, rangers DO give the mob a lot of tp.

once, (post patch) i was in the jungles on my ranger. the mob hit the tank with a goblin rush and killed him. all at once, i fired a weoponskill, used barrage, fired one ranged attack and then a second weoponskill. the goblin turned around, hit me with a goblin rush then double-attacked, killing me. almost no one else hit the mob during that time.

[Armando]

Re: weapon of choice for RDM

Lmnop, your post made me laugh. On PL parties in the dunes since I had nothing to do and I had a LOT of MND gear to swap to, and being Elvaan, I was doing really high Banishes too XD And yeah, honestly, I swear, I wish dual-weilding would just die pre-50. Oh and about Store TP...Store TP is based on percentages, so every point of Store TP+ gives you 0.01 more TP.