What if RDMs were different?

[nanatsu]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

That is true. I take every opportunity I can to use my sword when I am not in exp parties. I would just like to see RDM with a higher sword skill when it seems like SE designed certain aspects of the job around the idea of being a swordfighter.

I'd be okay with them raising the sword skill...if they lowered rdms magic ability too. Take away some of those powerful nukes that DRK don't even get at high level. Get rid of haste and enspells too. If you keep those things in along with higher sword skill, well then you might as well be in GM mode. Rdm is already overpowered. Most of the other jobs just can't compete when it comes to survivalbility. I'm not complaining. I love all the power we have. But there really is no reason to demand more, when we already have so much in the first place.

To the argument of str being a issue in relation to sword skill, well the str that rdms lack can easily be made up for in gear. Keep in mind that RDM gear themselves up with mage gear and take on low str mage subs most of the time. You gear youself up right and those few points of str that pld have over you won't matter much. Hell if you gear yourself up right that B skill is negligible. It's not like pld will do thousands of damage more than you. Equipping the right subjob allows you access to better weapon skills, better str, and better atk oriented job traits too. So it's not like pld totally pulls away from us in terms of attacking power. It's not our sword skill that defines our power. It's the combination of our sword skill, magical abilties, and versatility that make rdm very powerful. Increasing any one of those traits throws the balance out of whack in my opinion.

Now I don't know how much more powerful having a higher rank skill will make us. I'm just saying, that there honestly is no reason to give us higher sword skill, and I think that increasing our sword skill could actually unbalance us. So what's the point? We're one of the few jobs that haven't really been nerfed. More power does not equal better. I think you guys are just having job envy or are unsatisfied with the way other people want you to play. So you totally overlook the strength rdm already has, wanting to make yourself more powerful melee wise so other jobs won't complain as much when you want to do what you want to do.

But you know what? We could have A+ in sword and people would still complain about us staying in the backline to do the supporting job they expect us to do. Now if you want to play your own way, that fine. But our job is fine as is. It's not the job's fault things are the way they are now. It's up to the way players dictate how things are supposed to go. And whether you want to follow along with that or not it's the players you should blame. not our sword skill.

[Deathguise]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

A in sword wouldnt be overpowering. We have no str to compete with war or pld even...

As an Elvaan my base STR as RDM/WHM is 68, and with WAR sub I can get that to 72.
An Elvaan WAR/NIN at 75 has 77 base STR if this stat calculator I'm using is right, and an Elvaan PLD/WAR has the same (providing the calculator is right.)

There is a gap in STR yeah, but you'll find that the difference is mostly from gear, and job abilities.

If we had an A in sword it would be even easier to solo, and I think we are good where we are now.

[BurningPanther]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

I suppose that more than a raise in sword skill, what we could benefit from a little more is an accuracy improvement.
Looking at Red Mage from the standpoint of "magical duelist", the swordsmen that Red Mages were modeled after were not so much focused on the power of their strikes, but the precision, the skill involved. These fencers' weapons were best used when finding that critical hit that did an opponent in. In this sense, a raise in accuracy and perhaps a Job Trait enhancing our critical hit ratio would work well, without boosting our sword and threatening all those insecure dedicated meleers out there... ^_^ Of course, I'm not sure whether or not a boost in sword rating involes a boost in accuracy, so I might be off base.

As far as spells strengths, I rather think nothing needs to be nerfed, as we're rather middle-of-the-road with respect to both healing and offensive magic. Since our specialty is hobbling opponents, I'd like to see some more level 2 Enfeebling spells introduced, perhaps even some AoE versions of those introduced to us, rather than always limiting those to the Black Mage. A low-level AoE cure(a la Yuna's "Pray" in FFX), couldn't hurt.

As far as those RDM only spells--the weapon enchantments to be prescise-- we should DEFINITELY be keeping those. They are well in keeping with the "magical duelist" aspect, weapons that one on one fencers might employ. They could use expansion, as a matter of fact. Spell enchantments that add status effect to our strikes would fit well, I think, and perhaps the ability to enchant party members' weapons as well, maybe?

[ultimaknight]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

Sure, and while we're at it, let's give RDM access to Cure V, Tier-IV nukes, and all the -na & -ga spells.

Seriously, some of you guys act like RDM is a terrible job that's in dire need of improvements. Open your eyes: RDM kick enough ass as it is. Be content with the awesomeness that is already you.

I am not saying the job needs any improvements. The topic is about "what if..." and there is nothing wrong with dreaming. I actually like BurningPanter's idea better about improving accuracy more than my idea after reading his post.

I am only lvl 21, and I know I haven't even began to tap into the potential that is the RDM job. I really wouldn't want Cure V or the higher nuke spells because in the higher lvls RDM have its own bag of tricks to work from. Plus, with the right sub job and gear you can enhance just about anything to make the character play the way you want.

Don't take the post to mean I am unsatsified with my job, because nothing could be further from the truth. I love my job and wouldn't think of doing anything else (as a main job at least).

[Cesaria]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

What I would like, is access to Raise2 and Regen2 at like level 70+... it's not so close to WHM that it's ever going to take from their jobs, but I feel so damned awful when I have to give people raise1 at level 75. Second tier enfeebles would be sweeeeet too tho.

Don't give a damn about sword ratings, refresh-ga or whatever else. Make us too powerful and they'll realize and nerf us ;-)

As for the RDM versus BRD fight - they're two totally different jobs... give it up guys! /em sits on the fence cos she has both levelled.

[BurningPanther]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

I'd especially like to see next-level enfeebles, since it seems NIN gets the same. Their enfeebles come in Ichi and Ni, it puzzles me as to why we lack a level 2 set of enfeebles as well.

I agree with Ghostraven in the riase in sword skill, seeing as how our STR dosen't compare to the melee-specialty jobs, we really could never compete. I do still maintain that we should definitely get a boost in DEX.

[Icemage]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

RDM don't need better sword skill. Its fine exactly where it is; its high enough to hit the stuff you can reasonably solo in melee (Even Match, maybe slightly higher on a good day). Adding more skill is as useless as it is dangerous (since you'll have even more screwballs thinking that RDMs are the Gods of Swordfighting in XP parties than you have now).

RDM don't need better curing spells. There's little enough difference between WHM and RDM these days in the healing department as it is. Making it less so is pointless and silly.

Only change I'd like to see is for RDMs to get some unique RDM-only enfeebling spells past level 37 (level II Paralyze, Slow, Silence, or whatever) or something like Refresh II, but since that would up the power level of RDMs as a whole, something else would probably have to be taken away...


Icemage

[UnnamedGalka]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

I agree with Ghostraven in the riase in sword skill, seeing as how our STR dosen't compare to the melee-specialty jobs, we really could never compete.

RDM were never meant to compete with pure melee jobs in that area.

Only change I'd like to see is for RDMs to get some unique RDM-only enfeebling spells past level 37 (level II Paralyze, Slow, Silence, or whatever)

This I do think is a reasonable job improvement, seeing as how enfeebling magic is a RDM's specialty. Paralyze II, Blind II, Gravity II, Slow II, etc...I actually think it'd all be rather cool.

I would also like to see enfeebles like Curse be finally implemented for player use.

[BurningPanther]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

Yeah, there was never any way Red Mage was meant to compare with the melee specialties, I was just reaffirming that even is our sword skill were raised, we'd certainly not be a threat.

I don't see RDM ever getting Curse, that sounds like something that'd go to BLM and DRK. I could see us getting something like En-Curse or some such. BarCurse(even more likely, for RDM and WHM), would be a bloody lifesaver.

[LadyPeorth]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

En-Status skills (En-Paralyze, En-Blind, etc.)
Maybe give En-spells as they are a chance to cause some negative status effects.
Maybe some of the Sword abilities from FFT (Night Sword, Stasis Sword, Shellbust Stab, etc)

I dunno...maybe some other stuff

[tdh]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

I agree that the RDM Sword skill is just fine the way it is. I can still solo a Tough with an under leveled Sword, so it's good enough.

I stated previously I like the idea of a RDM only Refresh that gains more than Refresh. That way it can help off set the cost of Refresh to 3 other people.

There have been a number of conversations about Teir II enfeebling skills, and I'm surprised to see Icemage bring those up. He was the one who explained to everybody that Slow and Paralyze are stat and skill based. I used to want them, and then Icemage and others convinced me I didn't need them. lol (Unless I'm thinking of somebody else.)

I would like a Slow II and a Gravity II. More so for Gravity II. I hate when it gets resisted and I have to wait a minute to cast again. Or it wears off and I still have to wait. Or just something that lasts longer, and is a little meaner.

I'm surprised to that nobody's requested a new enfeeble spell. Something like Confuse would be nice. I'm not sure how they would impliment it, but I think a new Enfeeble would be nice.

I've always wanted Regen II, but if they gave RDM all the Regens and all the Raise spells we wouldn't need a WHM past a certain level. There would never been any new WHM75s.

[Kiros]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

So, I was thinking on how dramatically a slight change to Refresh could affect party concepts. For example: What if SE/PoL decided someday to make Refresh a self-cast only? (I'm not saying they would or will be. Just a thought/example.)

Well, the way I see it is that RDMs would be stocking up on lots of +MP equipment. With refresh a self-cast spell, they could start acting like main healers and WHMs could be enfeeblers. It's almost like a role change.

At another perspective, a RDM could actually provide more towards the elimination of a pull. In my experience, RDMs have done nothing but heal, debuff/enfeeble, dispel, MB/nuke, and refresh everyone. If refresh were a self-cast only spell, they could start meleeing mobs more often. Even at higher levels. Perhaps sub RNG and sidewinder them. Because you cut so much casting time out by not having to refresh everyone. (Yes, I know that keeping certian job's MP up could do just as much or more. But I'm aiming at the RDM perspectives as to how we sit there and end up refreshing 4-5 people 2 times a pull.)

I'm not saying all this because I'm sick of the whole "refresh everyone" concept. Just a little thinking on the other side of things. How important of a role do you think RDMs would have if Refresh were a self-cast only spell? What ways could they still contribute to EXP Parties? Or even any party.

problem with that is WHMs will never quite have the high enfeebling skill that redmages get, and they could'nt learn a lot of useful enfeeble skills that are meant for red mages only.

[Jei]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

In FF5 you can cast a lot more spells into your sword. I remember a couple mage bosses that you can defeat them easily by casting silence into your sword ^^ Enslow, Enparalyze, Enblind, Engravity, ensilence. Afterall, you can have only 1 en on your sword so this will not be super useful but still cool other wise xD

endrain, enaspir, not gonna happen.

[tdh]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

In FF5 you can cast a lot more spells into your sword. I remember a couple mage bosses that you can defeat them easily by casting silence into your sword ^^ Enslow, Enparalyze, Enblind, Engravity, ensilence. Afterall, you can have only 1 en on your sword so this will not be super useful but still cool other wise xD

endrain, enaspir, not gonna happen.

I've always wanted an Endrain, but I knew that wasn't gonna happen, but what about an Endark, or an Enlight? Those would be really nice. But everything has a weakiness to those, if we had those spells, people might beg RDMs to melee! lol

[lionx]

Re: What if RDMs were different?

En-drain = Blood Weapon? >_>;a