Magic Accuracy Research I need help

[kman]

I've always heald the argument that 5-6 magic accuracy is pretty much = to 15 enfeebling skill points. I'm begging to doubt this. Furthermore is 1 magic accuracy pt > than 4int/mnd and is 8 int/mnd > than 2 magic accuracy pts?

These question while may seem simple on paper are a major decesion for me at the moment. While I am aware that int/mnd is potency of most enfeebling spells such as paralyze, silence and gravity while slow remains a random duration. I also believe that like elemental magic int/mnd is a comparison to the mob when landing enfeebles. These things are what you may call common knowladge but being a 75 rdm now I need proof and tests. I have asked my linkshell to help me out by letting me take part in being prime enfeebler for IT++ mobs in the game. Everything from triggers to gods, to land HNMs. Problem is I don't know how to organize my research for a good conclusion. Since day matters, direction (pure theory), and different monsters have varying resistence to elements.

Equiptment:
Wise Cap vs. Eliter Berret
Wise Brocinis vs. Mahatma's Slops

Please don't make this very discussion oriented and opinion based, I'm really trying to find numbers to compare. Thank you.

[Icemage]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

It's pretty hard to generate hard numbers for enfeebling magic/magic accuracy, since we don't really know the baseline formula for how either value affects spell success. Not to discourage you, but even against HNMs, almost all spawn with some variation in their level (the only exception I can think of off the top of my head is Nidhogg, who is consistently level 90), which means that successive tests against the same target won't generate consistent results.

Most of the good RDMs I talk to tell me that 90% of the time, enfeebling stick rates are feast or famine; any given spell will stick pretty easily, or will hardly stick at all, based on the specific resistances of the target.

I can see why you would want hard data to back up a specific choice in gear (elite beret vs. wise cap for instance), but the fact remains that it's really hard to test these values since we really don't know much if anything about how spell accuracy is calculated at all.

For what it's worth, the HNM-oriented RDMs on my server almost all universally dislike the Wise set pieces. Whether it's because of looks or not, on occasions when I have asked, all have told me that they didn't see much effect on their success rate; spells which "ought" to stick didn't benefit, and spells which were tough to stick were still troublesome.


Icemage

[kman]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

When I just got my wise cap we proceeded to do a sky raid. The problem I was having was that it didn't quite let me land enfeebles at all. In fact i would say it became worth than when i had my elite berret. 20k vs 600k >.<

While thinking about it for a little bit I thought of the following idea. What if I were to go in naked and do a test between elite berret and wise cap they seem to be a 1:1 for magic accuracy vs. skill. I could test this on mobs in sky perferable weapons. I would maybe ask for a friend to help sleep em or do so myself and try to do 20+ enfeebles with just the hat. Than change and try another mob until a find two+ mobs that give precisesly the same exp. Meaning they are of equal level. I'm not sure how this will go since also mobs seem to become resistent to the same spell like Gravity not landing on KS99 Behemoth after some time was really bothering me. I would try and focus on weapons for this first experiment and put the results back on this forum for analysis and maybe more ideas to test. Weapons are water based so it seems they have a nutural element for our enfeebles (ice, earth, and wind).

[kman]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

Any suggestions for mobs that will resist a naked lvl 75 rdm.
Perferably a mob that will resist a rdm but can be soloed shortly after.

[Tan'o]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

Any suggestions for mobs that will resist a naked lvl 75 rdm.
Perferably a mob that will resist a rdm but can be soloed shortly after.

Off the top of my head....maybe a Sprinkler, but soloing it could be dangerous.

[Icemage]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

Naked tests aren't the answer, since your other gear is going to affect the final result (especially elemental staves). Even if one item gives noticeably better results than another under "naked" conditions, the difference may well become marginal or even non-existent once you are fully equipped, since there may be issues of diminishing returns... and I'm fairly certain that there are.


Icemage

[Rai|Kye]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

um cant give you any numbers but with a mix of mnd and magic accuracy im able to land enfeebles on goods fairly often.

when i first hit 75 i went with mnd/int + gear only and i never sticked anything, then i went for all magic accuracy and couldnt stick anything again...
but now with a mix of both i land atleast slow and paralyze most of the time.
my only real problem is silence which dont want to stack at all ><

EDIT:

sorry just saw that you wanted to focus on numbers. just ignore this post ><

[kman]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

Naked tests aren't the answer, since your other gear is going to affect the final result (especially elemental staves). Even if one item gives noticeably better results than another under "naked" conditions, the difference may well become marginal or even non-existent once you are fully equipped, since there may be issues of diminishing returns... and I'm fairly certain that there are.


Icemage

What I'm shooting for is to find mobs that will resist my enfeebles naked, and have some form of success with gear on and it could be very finitie success. I am aiming at gear comparison really. While your right it may be marginal or it may be significant. My goal is to work towards silencing kirin on call. Also it becomes an issue of gil 20k vs. 600k

Double Post Edited:

um cant give you any numbers but with a mix of mnd and magic accuracy im able to land enfeebles on goods fairly often.

when i first hit 75 i went with mnd/int + gear only and i never sticked anything, then i went for all magic accuracy and couldnt stick anything again...
but now with a mix of both i land atleast slow and paralyze most of the time.
my only real problem is silence which dont want to stack at all ><

EDIT:

sorry just saw that you wanted to focus on numbers. just ignore this post ><

Sorry for double post >.<

Currently I have a 1/2 for silence, 3/4 for gravity even though both are wind based gravity has a much better success rate. And pretty decent success rate on most other enfeebles on Kirin. I do have a mix of gear at the moment covering various slots.

[Rai|Kye]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

maybe because gravity is blackmagic ?

white magic gets resisted much more often then black magic... that might be a reason.
and you prolly wear more int stuff then mnd stuff

[kman]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

maybe because gravity is blackmagic ?

white magic gets resisted much more often then black magic... that might be a reason.
and you prolly wear more int stuff then mnd stuff

Your right I am subbing /blm and not /whm so I do have a higher int base than a mind base.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

To bring this post back from the grave, I have since been 75 for a time and have experimented with gear and theory and so forth. I can give you an answer, but it'll be to the best of my ability, and this answer won't give you what you're looking for, I'm afraid, but from this, you can make your own conclusion.

Above all numbers in the "Enfeebling Equation", Actual skill is most important. Magic works parallel to melee in that higher skill raises your "Attack" and your "Accuracy". So a Sword+5 object is more beneficial then an Accuracy +5 and Attack +5 item, because raising the actual skill affects things more on the frontend.

So for all intensive purposes, raising Skill should be most important.

With that said, we'll have to compare the next two aspects of spells at the same time so that a fair comparison is made. . .

Between Magic Accuracy and Stats, keep in mind that skill raises accuracy, hence, your skill is your ability to LAND the spell. This is important, because sticking an enfeeble should be the most important thing to a RDM. INT and MND are, essentially, the POWER of the enfeeble.

To detract a bit, I feel this way now, even in spite of my early RDM experiences where adding more INT or MND would mean I stuck spells easily. In hindsight, INT and MND do play an important part, but very soon it is obvious that no amount of INT and MND will make up for a lacking in skill, hence, overall accuracy.

I learned this as early as lvl 50, as a highlight from this post: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...ighlight=skill (holy Christ, I was such a noob ;.; )

With Skill and Magic Accuracy now weighing heavy on your enfeebling, it's time to look towards INT and MND for potency and duration. That's about it as far as those go.

The biggest problem I have is not the understanding, it's deciding whether or not certain pieces of gear are necessary, and it's not just numbers at this point, it's situation.

While it can be argued that the Wise Cap is better for enfeebles than the AF, The FC from the AF is too important to me. Switching between the two requires me to macro in my AF hat for Recast-Dependant spells like Refresh and for nukes, since it has elemental+10 on it in any case. . . Honestly, I'll give the Wise Cap another shot, but at this moment, I'm fine with using the AF Hat. So as I said, it's all situation dependant.

Macroing in AF Body and Chasuble is no prob, since I macro in the Errant Body on my rest macro and the AF on my Enfeebles. I just changed the macro from Errant to JSE on nukes.

While having a +10 to INT is better for overall power, I see a smaller resistant rate on nukes with Chasuble on IT and over mobs. While I should use the Errant for VT and lower, I find that a lot of times, spells are finicky, and accuracy is the difference between 200 on a Fire MB and 500. . . So overall, I'm going with accuracy until I have some merits to allow me to not worry about acc anymore, and let me focus on strength.

I believe the same goes for the Errant Slops and the Wise Braconi. . . Magic Acc +2 is fairly menial, I'll admit, and it remains to be seen whether it is greater than INT +7, but in accordance to my hypothesis above, I intend to stick with Skill and accuracy until I have merits that warrant otherwise.

Think of this analogy in terms of boxing: You can be as strong as you want, you can break boulders granted you hit them (INT and MND comparison. . .), but if you dont have the skill and the accuracy to land your hits, your power goes to waste.

Oh another example, with my INT gear, I have about 125INT, give or take. This BLM totally shamed me in nukese of the same lvl. Of course, It actually wasnt that bad, honestly. He's get constant 700 on the MB and I'd be low 600, but if I was to try nuking outside of MB, my numbers fluctuated bad, lol, so that's another example of skill overriding INT. (he only had about 96) One more thing to keep in mind is that in this case, the BLM had a ton of Magic Attack bonus. On MBs, I suspect that even with his natural cap in Elemental, our numbers would actually be quite close, suprisingly. His MAB, however is too great of a multiplyer to be taken for granted.

That's all I can think of for now, while I'm sure I didnt answer your question directly, I hope I gave you good insight that will allow you to make more educated decisions. And even if you knew all that, I hope people that read this post will learn something ._.

[kman]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

Wow thank u for resurrecting this, it's been awhile but I noticed a reply when I was checking my e-mail

Anyways, back than I did go with wise cap +1 which proved very potent but about the same as elite beret+1 so honostly go with the cheaper cause you wont notice a difference and I just like the way condom hat looks.

Today I use my AF2 Hat which hands down is godly and you do see a difference on gods especially with merits.

I advise you not scarifice potency for fast cast. Unless your in an exp party and don't want to hunk around all the extra gear, it is sometimes very crucial to land things like gravity (KS99-Behemoth) and your fast cast wont help much if you now have to wait the recast time to attempt again. It can be very frustrating.

When it comes to magic bursts. The af1 hat is unbeatable. Heck blm's nicer af2 hat isn't as good as ours. I personally don't use the jse body for magic bursts since sacrificing the powerful 10 int from errant. Here are some shots from Oct-Nov 05. I've yet to break the 1k barrier but I still have no luck on AF2 feet.





btw I'm hume, and as a side note the int of a tarutaru rdm exceeds that of a hume blm.

[arkaine23]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

Great stuff. Personally I use some of the wise set (chausable and pigaches), but mostly for dark magic and elemental magic. But I always enfeeble in the AF tabard. Mahatma Slops +8 mage stats are just too good to let slip for only 2 M Acc on the Wise Braconi IMO.

Keep in mind that some enfeebles to not need so much of a strength boost becasue they are all or nothing. Silence for instance. I think its better to go for full accuracy on silence, bc its duration is apperantly random, and probably modifed by by your enfeebling skill/accuracy. Also you'll want it to land the first time, if say you're casting it to prevent a Mob for AM'ing you or your party. The same holds true for Gravtiy and Dispel. Since its recast is so long, I think skill/accuracy are more important, for stick on the first cast and longer duration. It's effects of weight and evasion down are fixed and extra Int will not help it.

Blind- let's face it ninja's cast this first everytime. I seem to use this only about 5% of the time now, lol. I still wonder if it has a fixed effect or not... But its low recast and cheap mp, so I generally go for more int on this one.

Slow- Oddly, even tho recast is kind of slow, hehe, I load up on mind for this. I don't even use a staff, bc of +11 mnd from wand & sheild. I know for sure that the % slow the mob is inflicted with is based on a comaprison of its mnd and your mnd. Also, ninjas and bards can slow pretty well too, if I happen to get resisted. Effect: Mob slowed 13-30%

Paralyze- Since I've got the HQ staff, I use it, but otherwise, this one is all mnd gear like slow above. Short recast and cheap mp, means recasting it is no big deal.

Poison/Poison II- These aren't in my macro repetoire except in special cases when I need to DOT an NM. I probably should rethink that.... Poison II can do about 11/tick if you've got enough int. That may not seem like much, but its cheaper than a nuke, and unless the mob is dying really fast, might just be worthwhile to speed up the fight. I mean if you or the BLM Dia or Bio and do at least one int enfeeble and Poison II... the mob'll be taking somewhere around 12-15 every 3 seconds....

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

Pics are corrupted btw ._.

Anyway, ty for the insight. I know a bit, but I am still learning more. I'm sure if I just keep at it and I keep plugging along and getting my gil-game up, over time I'll be where you guys are now. Hell, you guys were where I am like half a year ago ._.

And I used to macro the Wise Cap into my spells, but It's too cumbersome to switch it, so i prioritized gear . . . . I can use more than one macro for it, quite easily, but I'm a lazy bastard >.>

[kman]

Re: Magic Accuracy Research I need help

Bah the pics were working earlier boo >.<

http://kofman2155.blogspot.com/

anyways that's where I took the pics it's of 2 different magic bursts on fafnir and nidhogg
833, 682 respectivly

And yea dude your going to be a sick rdm pretty soon if you take the time to research the job /cheer /cheer and good luck : )