Was I completely wrong?

[kuu]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

Err fighting fire with fire, or in this case bad playing with bad playing is self defeating. Not only will you be getting less xp from the whm, but less xp from yourself.

If the whm sits on full mp, that's one thing, it's wasting your own time, but even bad whms having more mp is better then nothing.

The whm might be a prick or whatever, but you're not being that much better. Turn the other cheek has their reasons especially when it's teamwork.

If I were the pt leader, I would not invite both of you again, if things got that bad. I don't need not one but two people not doing their jobs. If you have to fight with 5.2, I fight with 5.2members, don't make it 4.5members. Justifying your actions by doing the same thing just because someone else was doing it doesn't solve a thing, if you don't like it talk to them or disband pt.

Both said players need a good /slap. You're behaving like children.

[Alucath]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

Err fighting fire with fire, or in this case bad playing with bad playing is self defeating. Not only will you be getting less xp from the whm, but less xp from yourself.

If the whm sits on full mp, that's one thing, it's wasting your own time, but even bad whms having more mp is better then nothing.

The whm might be a prick or whatever, but you're not being that much better. Turn the other cheek has their reasons especially when it's teamwork.

If I were the pt leader, I would not invite both of you again, if things got that bad. I don't need not one but two people not doing their jobs. If you have to fight with 5.2, I fight with 5.2members, don't make it 4.5members. Justifying your actions by doing the same thing just because someone else was doing it doesn't solve a thing, if you don't like it talk to them or disband pt.

Both said players need a good /slap. You're behaving like children.

I thought I'd mention that I was refreshing the other mage(s) and main healing the tank (on top of my other duties), it's not like I just stopped doin' my job. I Stopped refreshing the WHM so I could have more MP to do my job more efficiently. I should've probably asked the WHM to cure more eloquently (meaning, maybe asking in the first place is a good idea ;P), however I don't think I was acting childish. I think I was acting in the best interest of the party, even if I didn't communicate as well as I should've.

I've come to dislike many japanese players, not because of certain things they do that irk me- but because of the language barrier and their adamant attitudes about not trying to communicate. I mean, damn, just pop off a sentence of bad english, we'll give you points for trying.

Yeah, I dunno. Some things like "JP ONLY" still annoy me, but tonight I was the only RDM online in my range and got like 7 invites while I was afk for all of 10 minutes. 3 of which were japanese, including the latest which I accepted. The invite was from a JP with "JP ONLY" in his search comments, but I was willing to give it a shot. Pretty good party, little less than 4k/hour because of a death we had due to lag (x.x), but the party went on for 4 hours and no one left. It was pretty cool being appreciated though, because after I converted then refreshed/hasted everyone after a chain; the tank (leader) said "{Red Mage} {Thank you.}^^" and said that when the party disbanded as well. I mean, that kinda stuff just makes you feel good. Try finding an NA who'll /bow or thank you for refreshing / hasting them. Yeesh. (Not that I don't love partying with english speaking people )

[kuu]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

I thought I'd mention that I was refreshing the other mage(s) and main healing the tank (on top of my other duties), it's not like I just stopped doin' my job. I Stopped refreshing the WHM so I could have more MP to do my job more efficiently. I should've probably asked the WHM to cure more eloquently (meaning, maybe asking in the first place is a good idea ;P), however I don't think I was acting childish. I think I was acting in the best interest of the party, even if I didn't communicate as well as I should've.

The whm was asking for [refresh]. I don't know any mage sitting on full mp asking for refresh. That means the whm was doing something to contribute. Not nesseary the right thing, but something nonetheless.

Yet, you decided to purposely ignore him. Sure, you are doing other things, but that doesn't mean you skip out, it's part of teamwork. And in that situation, you're also giving the impression of "picking a fight".

I'm sorry you say you are making more efficent use of your mp, but the whm asked for refresh, it's more spiteful then efficiency when you choose to ignore. You can't work with people who refuses to teamwork.

A lack of communication, yes, but what you did seriously didn't help the situation.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

The problem is that through all of this, the WHM most likely didnt understand the message and/or take a hint, so they'll continue to do this, and, like Kuu said, in the end, you only wasted your precious time. At that point, it's time to stop TRYING to make a bad party work and just hit the road.

There are always more invites. At least with english parties, they'll remember you by saying "this person couldnt party cause a mage was being an asshole" and they'll invite you. Happens to me- I leave, then i get reinvited cause they kicked the person that was giving me a problem. Little things like that make all the difference.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

I still say stick to what I said previously, stop picking up the healing slack for the whm. At the very least, the whm should be very attentive to the tank. That is their number one job. If the whm isn't even doing that, don't help them. Of course, I attempt to communicate to people that they need to do this or that first, but more often than not I've gotten attitude back or was just ignored. After that, I stop picking up the slack. And thats not acting like a child, thats making someone responisble for their own actions. Something more people should do in game and in real life.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

She has three generations of knowledge to listen to. When she says:

And thats not acting like a child, thats making someone responisble for their own actions. Something more people should do in game and in real life.

I think i'd be wise to listen to her. I'm gonna give you a HUG Kuu, you need this!

[Kilgraw]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

Hard to give an opinion on this subject as RDM since convert changes the playing field so much. When you ran out of mp, what was you covert timer at? Did your mages know when your next convert was? As a RDM, you can technically do everything. But for obvious reasons, you can't keep up with that kind of mp stress. So, as part of your job, you need to sort of guide your other mages on how much mp they think they need to use per battle. If your mass curing, hasting, and such, the WHM is going to think that you can handle this kind of mp stress, or that your convert timer is almost ready. Keep a rhythm going from the start and you'll find your mages will fall into their place nicely. At least with the mp consumption issue anyway. Them figuring out their job mechanics is another discussion.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

The presence of Convert changes nothing. It matters whether or not the Red Mage is capable of keeping up that pace indefinitely, The curing/hasting/refreshing/debuffing/enfeebling/Magic Bursting, it's the matter that the strain on the Red Mage could have been lightened considerably had the White Mage simply picked up his end of the slack, thereby earning the right to request Convert from a rather taxed Red Mage, which is the issue here. The White Mage simply sat back and let the Red Mage do his job as well as the White mage, and assumed it was the Red Mage's obligiation the grant the White Mage Refresh even though he casted perhaps only a couple Cure spells every other minute(this may be exaggerated, but from sound of Alutcath's story, I'm on the level).

Anyone in the party who dosen't at least make an effort to do their job has no right to ask for anything. At that point, the only thing they're entitled to is a righteous kicking.

I personally think Alucath should have lobbied for the White Mage to get dropped rather than leaving himself... didn't seem like it'd be a big loss if they tossed the loser.

[fuz]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

Covert isn't a drastic change, 10 mins is too long to be genuinely reliable in providing extra mp. I personally don't rely on it if at all possible, and use it as an emergency tool. For the most part I end up converting every 15-20 min, sooner if there is no whm, mostly because of the individual protects to be cast (kills mp fast). I only do it if I'm near out (MP<100)and the other mages are ~1/2 full, so the PT can keep chaining. If all the mages are out of mp, I don't bother and rest up like everyone else to save convert for a better time.

It's similar to using meditate when it is best needed, and not activating it as soon as the timer completes. If you do have to use it all the time, either the PT is good (fast chaining), or it's bad (needing to cast too much per fight).

[Altae]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

I too find that in EXP PTs, I have the lowest MP after a few pulls. BLMs tend to not use up all their MP and seemingly can regnerate it faster than a RDM. And WHMs are almost mp conservative hogs. "Gotta save mp, gotta save mp!" I don't know why, but thats just how it seems to me. RDMs are constantly kept busy: Refreshing self and 2-4 other spell casters, Dispel, hasting all the melees except PLD (WHMs usually try to reserve that right.), casting debuffs, MBing. Thats about a good 200-350 MP for 1 pull. (Have to also consider the Conserve MP trait from BLM sub if used.)


But as for Cor's situation, I don't think you did everything right. You took matters into your own hands when there were still other people to consult within the party. Especially the party leader. By complaining to the party leader, you make him/her feel bad that they invited this WHM. "Oh of all the luck, every EXP PT I make has one selfish jerk in it." By complaining to the party leader, you'd of made them take action. They'd of asked the WHM to be more considerate of the party than their own MP value. OR they could of kicked them and searched for a substitute. Thats what I'd of done anyway.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

Keep in mind that it was a japanese party in the first place. Also keep in mind that there are some things that are plain foolish. Even as a Taru, I'll be damned if I'M hasting more than the WHM. Fuck that shit, I make it a point to establish that I want to Haste the Tank, and the WHM should haste the ppl in the SC.

I do notice that in many parties, it isnt often I convert. Possibly once every 30 minutes. in others it may come down to where i run out with only 1 minute left in convert. Regardless, its possible to adapt and change. However, adapting requires fine tuning on the party. True to life, I had an ideal party set up, but we were fighting Taber Beaks (idk WHY ppl want to go to Cape Terrigan, that place is gay) and with a PLD THF and SAM, there simply wasnt enough damage. A few suggestions, due to "party communication" and we were able to change camps and speed up kills.

The problem isnt how the OP responded to the situation, acted in the situation, or feels about the situation, the problem is the lack of communication. SE can be to fault for this because of a limited Auto-Trans, or the gamers are at fault for not taking an effort to learn the language of ppl they may meet up with.

Whatever it is, we cant simply point the finger at one source. Like many things in life, problems arise from multiple variables.

[mightierispen]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

Since I was apart of the PT in question and Cor is a friend of mine, I know I was in the know with what was happening. In all honesty, I have never been a PT (especially in the lvls 50+) where the WHM did as little as this WHM did. It ranks with the time I was in a PT where we had a SMN/BLM and all he did was cast Rolling Thunder every once in a while.

The point to this is that we were in a situation someone did not do their job... at all. Mages have the spicific job to heal the PT (mainly the tank), nuke the mob, and keep an overall wellness of the health of the PT. Because this WHM did not do their job XP was slow and ardeous.

With that said, I am but a lowly SAM, I slice and dice and do pretty WSs over and over again to pummell mobs into submission.

[Altae]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

Well, if it was a JP party, then thats different I guess. I wouldn't even know how to explain to a JP party leader as to the WHM's productivity within the group. But you could of at least make it so that everyone notices how hard you're working to keep the party going, versus the WHM. Like, purposely run out of MP. Heal everyone, haste everyone, and even refresh the DRK or BRD (These are jobs that normally don't need refresh so often.) if there are any within the group. An idiot can even visually see/notice that the RDM is near 0 mp compared to the WHM with 600mp.


But I still think it was wrong to take matters into your own hands. Especially since you joined the group. Whether just or not.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

[party] [leader] <call1> [/fume]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[White Mage]=[Too Weak]
[White Mage]-> [Cure][Paladin]=X [/fume]
[Red Mage] MP <mp>!!!! [/fume]

Who knows, they may get the message.

[Alucath]

Re: Was I completely wrong?

[party] [leader] <call1> [/fume]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[White Mage]=[Too Weak]
[White Mage]-> [Cure][Paladin]=X [/fume]
[Red Mage] MP <mp>!!!! [/fume]

Who knows, they may get the message.

Lol, I try to be less confrontational then that. I should've said something but I really hate it when people get pissy and start /fume ing. /shrug.